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Chaos at Charlottesville City Council meeting on violent rally

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posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

As I asked in another thread, so what if Kessler was some kind of plant? Personally I think the theory is ridiculous but that's just me. Even if Kessler is a super secret Leftist agent that doesn't change the fact that actual white supremacists showed up in Charlottesville ready to start trouble. These people acted on their own volition and they made their beliefs pretty clear.




posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Nah.

The natural furtherance of the theory that Kessler is a double-triple agent is that the government has so thoroughly penetrated the extreme right that everybody that showed up is either law enforcement or a snitch for law enforcement.

Once you understand that some folks legitimately believe there's no "extreme right" because anybody on the "extreme right" is really just a government agent of one sort or another, the rest is pretty easy to follow.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:30 AM
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originally posted by: Butterfinger
I dont like that our past enemies and human rights violators like Nazi and KKK haven't been forcibly disbanded yet.


That pesky Constitution and the Right to Free Association. If it wasn't for that, we could forcibly disband gangs like the Crips, Bloods, Latin Kings, etc.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:32 AM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Asktheanimals

that doesn't change the fact that actual white supremacists showed up in Charlottesville ready to start trouble. These people acted on their own volition and they made their beliefs pretty clear.


Male cow feces. This was a setup plain and simple. Just like Boston.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

Even Snopes seems to contradict themselves.

Opponents to the “Unite the Right” rally on 12 August 2017 in fact did have permits, which were provided to us by the city of Charlottesville; they were allowed to be in nearby Justice and McGuffey parks from 9 A.M. until 7 P.M


The Unite the Right got a court order allowing them to protest at Emancipation park. The counter protesters did not have one for that area as you can read above.

The judge issued an injunction late Friday ordering the City to allow the event to take place in Emancipation Park.


Here comes the contradiction:

Heinecke, a University of Virginia professor, told us that counter-demonstrators did not need a permit to protest the white supremacist rally at Emancipation Park because it is a public space:

If the president is referring to the counter-protesters at Emancipation Park on 12 August, he’s incorrect because the counter protesters are not required by law to have a permit to demonstrate against protesters.

www.snopes.com...

Then why did the counter protesters get a permit in the first place?
Why weren't they in the parks they had a permit to be in instead of where the Alt-right was?
(not that I put any faith in to Snopes but its the only source I could find)



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:53 AM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals


(not that I put any faith in to Snopes but its the only source I could find)


Then why use them at all?

It's funny how Snopes is crapped on right up until the time they prove what somebody wants them to prove.

Scan of Kessler's lawsuit Pages two and seven specifically cite permits given to the counterprotesters.

If that doesn't work, this article has it embedded.

Why the city issued permits to counterprotesters is immaterial to the claim that the counterprotesters didn't have permits. They did, for one park one block away and another park two blocks away. The lawsuit also addresses the lack of permit for Emancipation/Lee Park, as it mentions that the city has allowed rallies and demonstrations in the park when the number of attendees could not be accurately predicted, but that the SOP for the city is to require a permit for anything taking place on public land.

And, as the Snopes article goes on to mention, the public doesn't need a permit to enter, or be around, a public park just because an event is taking place in the park.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Hi Xuenchen, I call it the "Berkeley Model" it is used to shut down freedom the good old fascistic way ... violence.... Mike Signer, PHD in PS from UC Berkeley. The July 8th march by the NC Klan had different security that the August Free Speech Rally. This was done under the power of the City government not the State Police. I am waiting a response to a media request that I sent VA State Police PIO Corrine Geller. I'll let you know what I hear. You can always catch me on Revolution Radio 8-10 am ....



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: xuenchen

As far as I can tell from my armchair, it seems the left is stirring up the neo-Nazis and the KKK. Possibly even funding them or helping them organize to have these rallies/ marches. Everyone knows that they are the side who wants to get rid of the constitution, freedom of speech, guns.

Socialism/communism is their end game.

We know for sure that they are helping/ funding ANTIFA and black lives matter. Oddly enough we also know that the democrats are the ones who installed the statues during the Jim Crow laws era.


My question for everybody, how many of you think that they are supporting both sides of this argument?

Seems like the best strategy they could use to get what they want. Which I think, is a re-writing or a complete rehash of the constitution.


I think you are correct. The last time I even heard anything about the KKK and Neo-Nazis was in the Blues Brothers movies.

Certainly seems as if they were slowly dying off over the past 30 years.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:49 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

Well that's because you're operating on partial information and when it comes to history, a complete lack of nuance. The Southern Democrats constituted a conservative wing of the Democratic Party. Democrats haven't won the South since 1976 and they did that with a Georgia peanut farmer who was constantly talking about his Christian values. Prior to that, Nixon had already adopted the "Southern Strategy."

There wasn't any single event that signaled a sudden ideological flip but there's milestones. The end of the Bourbon Democrats with the emergence of William Jennings Bryan as the ideological leader in the Democratic Party. FDR and the New Deal was definitely significant as FDR courted the black vote (and was the first Democrat to win it).

There were influential (if short lived) breakaway parties and single issue parties and all sorts of infighting and alliances across the aisle.

What really sealed the deal was the GOP running Goldwater, who opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 for President. He got trounced and the Republicans haven't had a substantial portion of the black vote since then. Which wasn't lost on Nixon and those advising him. (hence the "Southern Strategy")

There's just too much history to breakdown in a post but complexity is no excuse for believing absurdities because they're simpler. This idea that Democrats are the "party of the KKK" and the Republicans are the "party of Lincoln" is little more than a convenient political propaganda meme that requires its believers to be ignorant of history. Period.

As it relates to these neo-Nazi and white nationalists groups, you couldn't be more wrong. It "seems to you" based on what? Have you ever researched the topic? There was a certain contingent of Trump support that embraced the "Alt-Right" last year (and really going back to 2015). Not Trump himself (which confuses a lot of people), at least I don't think intentionally (I don't even think he was aware of the "alt-right"), but definitely people who were popular among Trump supporters like Cernovich, Baked Alaska (who still has almost 200k followers on Twitter), etc. This is how alt-righters like Brittany Pettibone ended up with 100k followers on Twitter and ATSers ended up linking to alt-righter Matt Forney.

This deliberate blurring of the lines between the mainstream and "civic nationalism" with the (newly labeled) "Alt-Lite" and its "Western Chauvinism" with white nationalism and the Alt-Right has allowed not only emboldened them, but in practical terms, enabled them to recruit.

What "Unite the Right" can rightly be seen as, is the "coming out" of this coalition of white nationalists and the like (they have many different terms for their slightly nuanced ideological differences), who felt that they finally had enough juice to breakthrough into the mainstream.

Look at how people rush to blame everyone BUT them for Charlottesville. It was the cops, it was the mayor, it was Soros, it was the Democrats, blah blah blah. Had one of them not plowed into a crowd of people, murdering one and maiming many, the results would have been what?

I'd like to think that even without that, they overplayed their hand but when The Hill is reporting yesterday that 9% surveyed called neo-Nazi views acceptable, I'm not sure. (note: it was an ABC-WaPo survey of ~1000 adults). 21% answered that they didn't believe the "Alt-Right" holds white supremacists/nationalist views and 39% had no opinion. That's 60% of the 1000 American adults surveyed who don't seem to have a clue or agree with them and I'm sure that some high percentage of those who do appropriately view the Alt-Right for what it is, only do so because of what they've heard in recent coverage.

Because most people are ignorant and can't be bothered to do their homework or simply aren't interested until it comes time to repeat somebody else's opinion. And just because a person forms their opinion's on those of "alternative" sources doesn't make them any closer to the truth. In fact, these alternative sources tend to be heavily biased in one way or another far more so than the mainstream. As we become further divided, we are actually engaging in a feedback loop where we're more and more looking to media outlets to give us the bias we want. When we get it, it confirms our biases and makes us want more.

It's a mess but hopefully events like the Congressional baseball shooting and Charlottesville are enough of a shock to keep things from devolving further but I honestly don't know. Tensions are high and people are very polarized.
edit on 2017-8-22 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:52 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6

So the counter protesters had permits to be in other parks, not where the Alt-Right is meeting.
When they move to where the Alt-right has their permit to gather suddenly they become "civilian bystanders"?



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:59 PM
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Those idiots will just make the towns meeting closed meetings from now on..



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 01:00 PM
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Sounds like the plan was to alter the "Permits" and create confusion in the ranks and command structure.

Then give no orders to add to the problem.

Very clever.




posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 01:31 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals


So the counter protesters had permits to be in other parks, not where the Alt-Right is meeting.


Hey, you understand now! Terrific! Hopefully you won't forget that all three parks are located within about 800 feet of each other, according to Google Maps. Not exactly a ton of space and separation between the groups.


When they move to where the Alt-right has their permit to gather suddenly they become "civilian bystanders"?


Ask Charlottesville. It's their SOP, not mine. Well, I say ask Charlottesville but they seem reluctant to explain to their own citizens why they did what they did so I don't imagine they'll be more any more forthcoming with people from the internet.

The only reason I rebutted what you said is because the claim that they didn't have permits is false. So false that Keesler cites their permits in his lawsuit. I'm not interested in, nor am I going to try, explaining why Charlottesville did what they did.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: Antipathy17

Thank you. Think of it every day. Have ptsd over it really. we have come so far as a Nation since that time, 8 years made many grow up and fast.

edit on pm831pmTue, 22 Aug 2017 13:42:52 -0500 by antar because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals

Makes me think that the counter's came because they were disappointed that alt-right did not come gunning or torching for them in the other 2 parks.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 02:18 PM
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Someone in history said that the people with the least common sense or intelligence would be the ones in charge .
I will not name this person because I disagree with most if his views , but he did hot the nail on the head with that one .



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

Both ideologies are totalitarian, so it wouldn't surprise me at all.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 02:53 PM
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a reply to: jjkenobi

Thats exactly where I'm conflicted, there is a slippery slope.

Serenity now!



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 02:56 PM
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originally posted by: VictorVonDoom

originally posted by: Butterfinger
I dont like that our past enemies and human rights violators like Nazi and KKK haven't been forcibly disbanded yet.


That pesky Constitution and the Right to Free Association. If it wasn't for that, we could forcibly disband gangs like the Crips, Bloods, Latin Kings, etc.


Im with you on your snarky first sentence! The second would be a lark, Bloods and crips applying for a protest permit? oh the lulz!



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 06:38 PM
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originally posted by: Butterfinger
I dont like that our past enemies and human rights violators like Nazi and KKK haven't been forcibly disbanded yet.

I'm for free speech, but while waiving the nazi flag? KKK? They need to be added to the terrorist list, they have done nothing positive and so are only instigators of violence, along with ANTIFA.

I'm having an internal struggle with leaving any of the aforementioned mobs to "express" or "Protest" with the right to have rallies.
Maybe I'm missing something?

As far as the protest farse in Charlottesville, the blame lies right on the city for having stand down orders.


There are only 8000 active members of the KKK spread across the 50 states of the USA. If there is any racist attack/assault on a minority person, the CCTV footage goes straight to the national news networks and a FBI civil rights enquiry takes place.

The most any KKK group can do in white robes is have a campfire deep in a forest. Their views are any different from the millions of Americans who have fled the inner cities due to crime. No different from people moving out of London due to "problem schools".




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