BREAKING: Explosion heard in Madrid

Another interesting connection...

203.15.102.140...
ZAPATERO IN MEXICO
Spanish opposition leader Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero has met Mexico’s President Vicente Fox to discuss that country’s political transition. During the interview Mr Zapatero asked Mr Fox to help Spain break into the American market. He also thanked Mexico for its support in Spain’s anti-terrorist campaign against the Basque separatist group, ETA...

COCAINED HAUL NEAR MADRID
Spanish police have arrested 12 people and seized more than 1.5 tonnes of coc aine from a warehouse at Humanes, near Madrid. The drugs were concealed in coffee which was shipped from Colombia via the port of Bilbao. From Humanes the coc aine was to have been distributed throughout Spain and to other European countries.

Edit:
Remember my prior post mentioning Basque accounts in Cuba? Well Cuba pretty much tossed them out on their ear and then presto... Related information is more towards the bottom of the article...
www.cubanet.org...

[edit on 9-2-2005 by twitchy]

mwm
I think if you were open minded and able to do your own research you would find there are more rapes in America than anywhere else with the exception of Africa. Why aren't we fighting to liberate the people of Africa? Because they don't have the same resources for the taking. Shut your pie hole and do the legwork. America is one of the most depraved nations on the face of the planet. We murder more, lie more, steal more, rape more, and generally get away with it more. South Africa has more rapes today by far than Iraq had under the reign of Hussein, why then are we not invading and conquering South Africa?

Your holy war is an insult to freedom, an insult to democracy, and an insult to thinking people everywhere. Why fight injustice in other sovereign nations when there's so much here at home? I'll answer for you to save you the consideration, we fight injustice elsewhere because we're incapable of fixing our own problems. What then makes us think we're capable of fixing anyone elses? In a word, Hubris.

news.bbc.co.uk...

csmonitor.com.../durable/2000/04/12/text/p1s4.html

www.homemakers.com...

irawrites.com...

www.etext.org...

Originally posted by mwm1331
Did we fund train and arm those who became our worst enemies? Yes, we comitted the horrible crime of helpng them overthrow soviet rule. Did it serve our interests as well? Of course it did, so what?
The simple fact is we did what was necessary to win the cold war, which everyone said couldn't be won.

You done what was necessary?
So the means justify's the end?
So if I go around assualting my enemies with a blade because they might hurt me later on in life I am totaly justified?
[qoute]
Remeber the european reaction after Reagan's "tear down the wall speech"
They were shocked, horrified, and appaled at his "lack of tact" and his "arrogance" but it worked didn't it?

Mabye the whole bankrupt russia and russia being a democracy MIGHT have had a peice in there...

Hstory will view the War on Terror in much the same way.
merica has, for the last fifty years taken on the responsibility of meeting threates to world peace head on, in the order of the threat they pose becuase we learned the lessons of WW2, unlike europe we learned what happens when you let a little dictator get away with #.

HOW DARE YOU!
You arogant son of a-!
What the hell gives you the right to say that!
We have been out there by americas side helping and purseing peace by ourselves as well!

We have taken on this responsibility because the governments of europe and the rest of the world has failed to do so.

Really?
So britain is not part of europe?
The responseability is not yours to take!
Your country is just as arogant as you are, you think of words like democracy and peace mean a damm thing to the eastern world!
The eastern world doesnt believe nor wants it!

If you dont lke the way we are handling t then why don't you get the rest of the world governments to step up to the plate.

The responseability to go forth and kill things in the name of god?
In the name of "peace" or "democracy?"
You cant justify your countries actions so i ask what right do you have to do so?

America and her allies will bring democrcy, freedom, and self rule to those who are opressed, and death to those who threaten us.

How can you believe in democracy when invade soverign countries, support terror, assist dictators and walk around like a self proclaimed bringer of peace!
Your no white knight of god or a white knight of truth you are nothing but a self serveing, heartless, money hungry arogant country!

Well wyrdone coming from someone who believes in tolerating evil and immorality, maybe you can explain why there are so many crimes comitted in the US?
Maybe becuase people like you tolerate it?
Becuase those who want to believe that all moralty is both subjective and relative, have spent the last 50 years doing everything they can to remove the morality from the government and society in the US?
Heres a clue for you wyrd one, when you make morality relative, you condone all forms of immorality. After all if nothng is moral in an objective sense then nothing can be evil either now can it?
And if nothng is evil, then the only reason not to comit a crime is becuase you might get caught. You see wyrd one, guys like you who beleve there is no such thing as Right or Wrong, make it easy for terrorists, murderers,rapists, abusers, and the like to justify thier crimes, because hey if there is no right and wrong, no objective morality beyond what we decide thier is, then why cant we decide that murder s OK? I mean its all just relaative right?
So if you get your jollies from raping 5 year old chldren well, since morality is relative you can decide that it is moral to value your sick impulses and thier gratificaton more than the emotonal and physical well being of that child now can't you?
You see wyrd one we can and are fixing many of our own problems, over the last ten years violent crime in the states has dropped. As the washington post so fmously wondered "why, when crime s at an all tme low, are so many people in prison"
As more and more of us who understand that there is a moralty that goes beyond human interpertaton and relativism begn to take a more active rloe in poitics this trend of America's moral decline will reverse and what will you do wyrd one when you are the only one left who will tolerate evil?
Why aren't we liberating Africa you ask? well as I said we are takng on the threats in the order of the magnitutde of the threat they represent. At the moment instabillity, dicatatorship, and the mentality of terrorism in the middle east due to the history, abiilities, and resources of those countries are a bgger threat than africa, but give us time.

Devl wasp I was primarily referring to what you brits call "the continent" And no the UK is not a part of geographical europe. However that being said I have every right to say what I did and I'll tell you why.
twice in the first 50 years of ths centry america was dragged into european wars becuase you people couldn't keep peace in the first place, couldn't win a war once it was started, and weren't willing to adress threats before they became a major problems.
WW1 and WW2 both were situations where the american presence tpped the balance of the war. Had we not intevened then neither side would have won.
Your governments have continued to allow threats to grow to dangerous propotions under your very noses in complete oppostion to the lessons we learned from our experiences in your wars.
No more. The US is taking control of our destiny and the worlds.
We have the right to do so because none of your governments will, or can.

[edit on 9-2-2005 by mwm1331]

mwm
You just wasted 4 or 5 paragraphs of your time putting words in my mouth. I have a mind, I have fingers and a keyboard, just read my posts, don't make them for me.

I believe there is no right and wrong. There is action, and consequence. If a man raped my wife, he would answer to me for that crime. I would spend days cutting, drugging, beating, and otherwise assaulting him. I would pay crack heads down the street from me $10 dollars each to rape him and give him AIDS. He would reside in my basement until he died so that I could oversee the decay of his body and mind. You would call me evil for that. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

Be forewarned, if your little crusade ever makes it to my front door, if your Army of the Moral Majority starts goose stepping down my streets, you will not be received kindly.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne

I believe there is no right and wrong. There is action, and consequence. If a man raped my wife, he would answer to me for that crime. I would spend days cutting, drugging, beating, and otherwise assaulting him. I would pay crack heads down the street from me $10 dollars each to rape him and give him AIDS. He would reside in my basement until he died so that I could oversee the decay of his body and mind. You would call me evil for that. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

I think you said it all.
Remember wyrdone, when there is no right there can be no wrong. I put no words in your mouth just explained to you what happens when "moral relativism" becomes accepted as truth. It is attitudes like yours that allow evil men to justify thier evil.

The only crime i'm guilty of is a refusal to qualify or justiify my actions. You and your ilk are waging war and justifying it by saying you're fighting a greater evil. How can you speak so much and hear nothing of what you yourself say? It boggles my mind. It's called projection, and you are doing it. You are aware of the contradiction you are making, at least unconsciously, and so you project it onto others and fire with both barrels condemning it. You hate yourself and cannot admit it, so you project qualities of your own personality and idealogy onto others and attack them instead. It's a pretty common affliction in people who don't possess the conscious reasoning power to understand their own actions and beliefs fully.

Edited: Because I wanted to apoligize to other members for allowing myself to go so far off topic. That was my last word regarding the subject or personal responsibility and morality. I am sorry to have wasted so much board space bickering about philosophy rather than the issue at hand. It just seems as though well meaning individuals are constantly attacked for their failure to follow the party line, and I have a hard time restraining my retorts when the attacks are so blatant, poorly conceived, and easily refutable.

[edit on 9-2-2005 by WyrdeOne]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
The only crime i'm guilty of is a refusal to qualify or justiify my actions. You and your ilk are waging war and justifying it by saying you're fighting a greater evil. How can you speak so much and hear nothing of what you yourself say? It boggles my mind. It's called projection, and you are doing it. You are aware of the contradiction you are making, at least unconsciously, and so you project it onto others and fire with both barrels condemning it. You hate yourself and cannot admit it, so you project qualities of your own personality and idealogy onto others and attack them instead. It's a pretty common affliction in people who don't possess the conscious reasoning power to understand their own actions and beliefs fully.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Damn you really do buy into that psychobableistic, morally relativistic, liberal bull# dont you?
Me and my ilk are waging war? Yes we are, against an enemy who attacks civilians rather than soldiers, has been attacking us for years, and has stated that they will continue attacking untill we are all dead. Against that kind of enemy your damn right we are gonna fight back.
As for the psychobable you were spouting, well lets face it I don't apologise for who I am or what I believe, and as for the "conscious reasoning power to understand my own actons or belefs" I know exactly why I do what I do and believe what I believe. I believe in Right and Wrong, supporting and defendng my god, my family and my nation, rewarding our allies and destroying our enemies. I believe in God and in America, its peoples and its leaders. I believe that we will wn the war on terro and the world will be a better place because of us. I believe we all have the power to change the world if we are willing to fight for our beliefs and in defense of justice. I believe that every man has both God and the devil within and we choose for ourselves which one we listen to. I believe those who aren't wlling to be a part of the soltin should get the hell out of our way and stop being part of the problem. And finally I believe I'm gonna pray for you tonght becase you need someone to wyrd.
What do you believe?

Originally posted by mwm1331
Devl wasp I was primarily referring to what you brits call "the continent" And no the UK is not a part of geographical europe.

Dont try to tell me what I or the people I live next to say, This is what europe is. We are part of it no matter what you americans try to think make us think.

However that being said I have every right to say what I did and I'll tell you why.
twice in the first 50 years of ths centry america was dragged into european wars becuase you people couldn't keep peace in the first place, couldn't win a war once it was started, and weren't willing to adress threats before they became a major problems.
WW1 and WW2 both were situations where the american presence tpped the balance of the war. Had we not intevened then neither side would have won.

You cant keep peace now, we helped keep peace for over 20 years without the use of force, hell destroying hitler was keeping the peace.
Also in WW1, that was due to the alliance system which was and still is a main cause for wars.
We would have kicked germany's ass in WW1, RN blockading and supplies from america (which was bought legally) reaching us and the whole germans haveing no supplies left.

Your governments have continued to allow threats to grow to dangerous propotions under your very noses in complete oppostion to the lessons we learned from our experiences in your wars.

Really?
Funny last time i checked america did the same with GW1 and terrorists, wow what a hyporcitcal world we live in.

No more. The US is taking control of our destiny and the worlds.
We have the right to do so because none of your governments will, or can.
[edit on 9-2-2005 by mwm1331]

You try and take control but you can't manage it and it enfuriates you, the fact is no matter how hard you try you cant control us!
We have more than an equal say in what our destiny is, you think because you have the largest navy or the strongest army that makes you strong HA !
If we simply embargoed america you would die off in weeks, imagine; no more boing parts because it would be in china's intrest to see america fall, no european tech , no cheap forign food or cheap forgin products.
Back to the stone age my friend, so go ahead and live in your make believe castle while i laugh my head off in my real house with real control of my destiny.

devilwasp -
1) I live in europe, and travel constantly. Yes most brtish refer to mainland europe as the continent. Why because the UK is made up of islands. You are aware of this I assume?
2) You say we arent taking control? Well then why did your government redeploy the blackwatch brgade despite massive oppostion by your citizens?
3) you and I both know that if not for US support n 1 and 2 those wars would have lasted a lot longer, with greater loss of life, and a less certain outcome. Whether teh alles would have won or not without the US is debatable but anyone with half a brain can see that our military and industrial might helped significantly.

Really?
Funny last time i checked america did the same with GW1 and terrorists, wow what a hyporcitcal world we live in.

Well actually in GW1 we put toghter the coalition to kick saddam out of Kuwait and while many wanted to finish the job then, most of our allies including much of "old europe" begged us not to.
As for terrorism yeah clinton fumbled the ball on that but bush recovered it and is on the 10 yard line.

Originally posted by mwm1331
devilwasp -
1) I live in europe, and travel constantly. Yes most brtish refer to mainland europe as the continent. Why because the UK is made up of islands. You are aware of this I assume?

You live in europe?
Then i must admit you know little for a european.

Really, of all the people in scotland, england, wales, NI and ireland I have spoken and lived with they never refer to it as the "continent".
Yeah the UK is made up of islands but the UK is still part of europe the same way that hawia is part of the US or that madagascer is still part of the africa continent.

2) You say we arent taking control? Well then why did your government redeploy the blackwatch brgade despite massive oppostion by your citizens?

Because we made a promise to stand by you and we did so, unlike the US we keep our promises.

3) you and I both know that if not for US support n 1 and 2 those wars would have lasted a lot longer, with greater loss of life, and a less certain outcome. Whether teh alles would have won or not without the US is debatable but anyone with half a brain can see that our military and industrial might helped significantly.

That may be but that way would have been better in the long run.

Actually if the US didnt get involved in WW1 then the WW2 would have been averted, you see we would have regrouped and pushed back into germany and totaly crushed it , therefore removeing hitler and any chance of WW2.

Really?
Well actually in GW1 we put toghter the coalition to kick saddam out of Kuwait and while many wanted to finish the job then, most of our allies including much of "old europe" begged us not to.

Sorry i should have made it clearer.
The US did supply a dictator with WMD and chemical weapons for use on civilian population , do you deny this?

As for terrorism yeah clinton fumbled the ball on that but bush recovered it and is on the 10 yard line.

As i remeber clinton wasnt in power during the 1980's.


[edit on 9-2-2005 by devilwasp]

I was like a subway station away from where this happened, but I was underground, this is not far from the airport, the people here take this normally, but never the less they are angry at the ETA organization

Yeah we supplied saddam with WMD of the chemical variety in the 80's. The idea was to suppIy both hm and Iran with enough weapons to weken both. I never said we were perfect or that we dont make mistakes, just that we learn from ours a little quicker than you do.
I suggest you re-read your history, The UK might well have not survived the first half of WW2 if the US had not been putting massive industrial efforts into building and delvering ships, food, and supplies, to the UK before we were even technically involved in 2.
Do a little research on the "liberty ships" and you will see what I mean.
As for your comments on WW1 it was the peace imposed on germany primarily by the european powers of the time which directly led to hitler taking power. Thats why after WW2 we enacted the Marshall Plan to ensure history didn't repeat itself.
You know named after the US former secretary of state, the one who pushed it through when most of europe wanted to impose a peace on Germany very similar to the one imposed after WW1.
History is a wonderous thing devilwasp, read a little you might learn somethng.


And BTW I live in europe but I am not european, persoanl attacks and insults aren't allowed on this board remember?

[edit on 9-2-2005 by mwm1331]

spacemunkey
Its probably the work of ETA

The basque tend to announce when and where a bomb is and set it up so that people aren't actually killed, usually.

souljah
and today they got a phone warning before the explosion,

Then it probably is eta

mwm1331
So let me get this straight,

These are probably basque separetists, not al qaida linked international terror orgs.

twitchy
or you get dragged into it by the actions of clandestine pseudo terrorists, like Mossad.

So you are saying this was an act of the 'evviiiiil jooooos'?

Uh no, I think i used the term like which is a simile

That would still imply that this was not eta nor islamists. So who are you saying it was?

Mossad and Spain have had their sorted history...

So you are saying that its the jews.

So being a victim in an act of terrorism shows weakness?

By voting in the socialists and voting out the conservatives after an act of islamist terrorism the spanish people were effectively saying 'we are not that interested in the war on terror' ie 'we can be plied by terrorism'.

Heck, the Socialists are in power now, and still the basque attack, rather than really push for an end to the attacks and real autonomy, whcih the socialists are very much in favour of, or at least said they were.

and that they have some unfinished business,
with this mexian president...

I am unfamiliar as to any connections between the basque and the president of mexico, whats the dealy-o?

ETA still isn't defeated, but the Spanish government should also beware Al-Qaeda, they still might attack.
Anyway, if there 39 victims, it is a rather unusually violent terrorist attack and thus the Spanish government, if it wants Spanish citizens to be safe, should DO SOMETHING!

Originally posted by mwm1331
Yeah we supplied saddam with WMD of the chemical variety in the 80's. The idea was to suppIy both hm and Iran with enough weapons to weken both. I never said we were perfect or that we dont make mistakes, just that we learn from ours a little quicker than you do.

Uhhh no, you still make mistakes by supplying weapons to another power in the middle east yet do nothing to supply thier enemy...

I suggest you re-read your history, The UK might well have not survived the first half of WW2 if the US had not been putting massive industrial efforts into building and delvering ships, food, and supplies, to the UK before we were even technically involved in 2.

If you look what i said there would have been no WW2 if you hadnt been involved in WW1, now i agree with what you said about WW2 we would have been screwed with out you but you would have been screwed with out us.

Do a little research on the "liberty ships" and you will see what I mean.
As for your comments on WW1 it was the peace imposed on germany primarily by the european powers of the time which directly led to hitler taking power. Thats why after WW2 we enacted the Marshall Plan to ensure history didn't repeat itself.

Yes it was mainly france that went nuts about reporations and such.

You know named after the US former secretary of state, the one who pushed it through when most of europe wanted to impose a peace on Germany very similar to the one imposed after WW1.

Yeah can you blame them?
They had thier homes bombed to hell they wanted revenge.
You cant say because you where involved in military support that you guys had the same kind of punishment as the europeans.

History is a wonderous thing devilwasp, read a little you might learn somethng.

Funny i did actually pass that subject I tend not to focuss on death and destruction instead i prefer to look at better things.

And BTW I live in europe but I am not european, persoanl attacks and insults aren't allowed on this board remember?
[edit on 9-2-2005 by mwm1331]

Yes you do live here so you should learn about the history better and not from one side.
When you make those kind of claims you insult ever brittish service men and women that have died since WW2.

Originally posted by Nygdan

and that they have some unfinished business,
with this mexian president...

I am unfamiliar as to any connections between the basque and the president of mexico, whats the dealy-o?

Originally posted by twitchy
Gotta love google...
Check this one out...
www.newsmedianews.com...

www.google.com...

Originally posted by twitchy
Another interesting connection...

203.15.102.140...
ZAPATERO IN MEXICO
Spanish opposition leader Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero has met Mexico’s President Vicente Fox to discuss that country’s political transition. During the interview Mr Zapatero asked Mr Fox to help Spain break into the American market. He also thanked Mexico for its support in Spain’s anti-terrorist campaign against the Basque separatist group, ETA...

COCAINED HAUL NEAR MADRID
Spanish police have arrested 12 people and seized more than 1.5 tonnes of coc aine from a warehouse at Humanes, near Madrid. The drugs were concealed in coffee which was shipped from Colombia via the port of Bilbao. From Humanes the coc aine was to have been distributed throughout Spain and to other European countries.

Edit:
Remember my prior post mentioning Basque accounts in Cuba? Well Cuba pretty much tossed them out on their ear and then presto... Related information is more towards the bottom of the article...
www.cubanet.org...

[edit on 9-2-2005 by twitchy]

Plenty of connections between Basque and Mexico, most of them clandestine coc aine operations and alot of international connections including accounts held in Cuba. That much coc aine could easily fund a terrorist organization, and I don't think the recent seizures in Madrid are mere cooincidence. Also, if you would read my post, I did not say that Mossad was directly responsible for the recent bombing in Spain, howeevr I would like to call attention to Mossad activities in the area and their involvement with the Spanish Government and the Basque group.