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Boston let's have a conversation or mb not Foul Language Alert

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posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:27 AM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: intrepid
Far be it for me to get in the way of a good gang bash but is TrueBrit the topic?


The topic is extremist views stifling conversations.

We had a member call for the annihilation of all trump supporters.

I would say denouncing that and the members defending it is on topic.


No. It's an excuse to gang bash a member not of your clan. But hey, if that's your jollies who am I to argue?


I am sure that you too would condemn this extremist mindset, would you not?


Nope. Not going to play this game of make believe.


So you are telling me that if in a thread about nazi extremism, a member came on spouting nazi garbage and suggesting to kill every single Obama supporter, you would not comment?

All I heard for a week was how ATS was filled with nazi defenders, and now we see people actually calling for genocide of all trump voters, and some people defending that or belittling it.

And somehow calling that out is ganging up?

We now see who is truly unwilling to call out extremism.




posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:30 AM
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originally posted by: Simon_Boudreaux

originally posted by: [post=22591675]intrepid

No. It's an excuse to gang bash a member not of your clan. But hey, if that's your jollies who am I to argue?
.


Are you and your "clan" not guilty of the same?


Nice try Skippy but I have no clan. I'm a thinker and take my ideology from all side of the political spectrum...laced solidly in logic, not blind, emotional BS.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: intrepid
Far be it for me to get in the way of a good gang bash but is TrueBrit the topic?


The topic is extremist views stifling conversations.

We had a member call for the annihilation of all trump supporters.

I would say denouncing that and the members defending it is on topic.


No. It's an excuse to gang bash a member not of your clan. But hey, if that's your jollies who am I to argue?


I am sure that you too would condemn this extremist mindset, would you not?


Nope. Not going to play this game of make believe.




And somehow calling that out is ganging up?


Yes.


We now see who is truly unwilling to call out extremism.


And you just made my point. "We".



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:34 AM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Simon_Boudreaux

originally posted by: [post=22591675]intrepid

No. It's an excuse to gang bash a member not of your clan. But hey, if that's your jollies who am I to argue?
.


Are you and your "clan" not guilty of the same?


Nice try Skippy but I have no clan. I'm a thinker and take my ideology from all side of the political spectrum...laced solidly in logic, not blind, emotional BS.


Keep telling yourself that.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: TinfoilTP

So you really believe an ideology only could be exterminated by exterminating people? Well, it can't, even if we'd try. Didn't work out so well with christianity either, did it?

There goes your narrative, all the way up to moronically alley.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

When you consider that the alternative was Hillary,i do not blame anyone for voting for Trump.That does not make them fascists or nazi's.But from your replies to this thread i can see who the nazi and fascist is..lump all Trump supporters together,call them nazi's and fascists and advocate for their annihilation.This will be our last exchange on ATS,at least from my side. Because i do not like to waste my time talking to Real genocidal nazi fascists.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:49 AM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: TinfoilTP

So you really believe an ideology only could be exterminated by exterminating people? Well, it can't, even if we'd try. Didn't work out so well with christianity either, did it?

There goes your narrative, all the way up to moronically alley.


What are you talking about?

He specifically said exterminate people several times.

He discusses how all Trump supporters are supporters of fascism. He mentions war on the street as I posted above, he mentions the shooting people if need be.

I said he was the first person I had seen call for genocide of a political group on ATS.

He says


Wow... you have not been paying any attention if you think I am the first. I may be the first to openly call for the elimination of all Nazi apologists, but hardly the first to call for the destruction of an entire support base. You might want to look again.


He admits it. And remember, he is calling all trump supporters nazi apologists.

Its there in black and white, and yet people defend it.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:49 AM
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a reply to: Grambler



His leap was all Trump supporters are defending fascists and white supremacists. Do you agree with this?


Not WS, but fascism? Yes. Again, that is not anything new. Been saying it before he was elected.

Your example, was a huge leap in logic.



I guess we both want them to see for themselves. Again, the fact that you don't find what he said to be too extreme is very scary.


When did I say it was not extreme? Of course it's extreme. No one wants to be the guy that says what he did, but at least he had the balls and was honest. I just don't happen to scare as easily as you do.

I see where he is coming from. There does come a time, with many different situations, where you have to stand up and take action or defend yourself.



Just war theory is the idea that it is better to have a war for the sake of preventing a terrible tragedy from occuring. In that case, the war is justified. He is declaring for a war to annihilate Trump supporters. How you can even equate this to a just was is insane.


I used it as an example to show how I think Trubrit was thinking. Sometimes we are morally justified in taking action if prevents greater tragedy.

How you can't seem to understand that is insane.



And this sums it up.

You don't have a problem with what he is saying because you agree all trump supporters are defending fascism.


I see you refused to answer my hypothetical question. Let's ask it again and see if you can.

Look at it this way, if the Nazis were in this country now and they had control of government, wouldn't you be all for fighting against their ideology, or would you be one of those people, like in Germany, that sat back and supported fascism because "it's mah country"?



You are calling anyone who supports Trump a defender of fascism.


Yes. Been saying it for well over a year now.



You are seeing the good points in someone suggesting killing all trump supporters, comparing it with just war theory.


Again, you are boiling his comments down to the most basic form, without complete context, for the sake of your political rhetoric.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: Grambler


It's possible to wipe out a dumb paradigm without killing anybody at all. Which is precisely what the artists did during the renaissance, working together with the more progressive patrons of that time.

You're reaching, cherrypicking and ignoring a whole new world of context yet to be explored.
edit on 22-8-2017 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:53 AM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Grambler


You can wipe out a dumb paradigm without killing anybody at all. Which is precisely what the artists did during the renaissance, while working together with the more progressive patrons of that time.

You're reaching, cherrypicking and ignoring a whole new world of context yet to be explored.


I am glad you believe that, so do I.

When someone calls for open war on the street, total annihilation of trump supporters, and the need to punch and shoot them, they are not distancing using artists to fight hate.

What context am I missing when I quote these exact terms from him?

It appears to be you that are reaching that is somehow trying to say that a person that says all of these things is talking about using art and other things.




edit on 22-8-2017 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:56 AM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Asktheanimals

An entire generation of assholes. That really is sad.


They come in all ages.
Even old farts like me.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:57 AM
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a reply to: introvert

I hate to ask you but you seem to have a different take on the "conversation" of the last few pages and the other guy left, so...tag! You're it. I already know the answer from "the other side" so, given your interpretation of previous statements, I'm genuinely interested to get your take on this.

What about those of us who have no great love for Trump, but still think he was and is the better alternative out of the choices we were given in November? And those of us who are a little concerned for what Pence might do were he to take office? Where do you think we fall in this "Trump supporters support facism" thing we're discussing?

Genuinely not trying to put you on the spot with it, but the question popped into my head and I'm curious.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:59 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

And I can eliminate the fact, that you're eventually an ignorant fool, without even touching your white skin. All we'd need is a tipi in the wilderness, a variety of mushrooms and a pipe.



call for genocide of a political group


Actually, he's talking about an act of self-defense at the end of a very long line of other possibilities. And yes, people are willing to defend the slightest rest of democracy and civil society we have, to the death if it has to be that way.

Imagine a home-invasion with the criminal getting shot by the owner during the act. That's what this is about.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:03 PM
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originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler



When did I say it was not extreme? Of course it's extreme. No one wants to be the guy that says what he did, but at least he had the balls and was honest. I just don't happen to scare as easily as you do.

I see where he is coming from. There does come a time, with many different situations, where you have to stand up and take action or defend yourself.


You alluded to just war theory (you still are) to make what he said sound reasonable.






I used it as an example to show how I think Trubrit was thinking. Sometimes we are morally justified in taking action if prevents greater tragedy.

How you can't seem to understand that is insane.



I see you refused to answer my hypothetical question. Let's ask it again and see if you can.

Look at it this way, if the Nazis were in this country now and they had control of government, wouldn't you be all for fighting against their ideology, or would you be one of those people, like in Germany, that sat back and supported fascism because "it's mah country"?



This is exactly what I am talking about.

But let me first answer the question.

If the nazis were in charge of the country; and I mean real nazis that were gassing millions of jews and others, I would of course fight back.

Your veiled attempts to compare Trump to real nazis by not only using this example, but accusing him and all of his supporters of being fascists, and then claiming you can see where a person calling for genocide is coming from is frightening and extreme.

But tell me in your own words; is trump and his supporters any where near as bad as Hitlers nazis? If not, then why does your question have any merit at all.

As certain as you are that Trump is a fascist, there were people that were certain that Obama was a supporter of radical Islam.

You just assert that you are right and the other side is wrong.

Thats what they would do to. And if they called for the extermination of every Obama supporter, you would be appalled.








Again, you are boiling his comments down to the most basic form, without complete context, for the sake of your political rhetoric.



I am using his exact words. You are choosing to ignore those words claiming the context justifies them.

This is disgusting.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:11 PM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Grambler

And I can eliminate the fact, that you're eventually an ignorant fool, without even touching your white skin. All we'd need is a tipi in the wilderness, a variety of mushrooms and a pipe.



call for genocide of a political group


Actually, he's talking about an act of self-defense at the end of a very long line of other possibilities. And yes, people are willing to defend the slightest rest of democracy and civil society we have, to the death if it has to be that way.

Imagine a home-invasion with the criminal getting shot by the owner during the act. That's what this is about.



Thats not what he was doing. He outlined very specific instances of when shooting would be necessary. Did you read them?


If Trump gets legislation past the Senate and Congress which redefines the concept of protest or freedom of association, to bar counter-protest, the anti-fascist movement will have to go underground and adopt the guise of insurgency, for the purpose of tearing down the government and eliminating the now empowered fascist groups, wherever they are to be found.


So for example labeling antifa a terrorist organization, then the war is on.


If fascist groups become more numerous or their membership grows, or their rallies increase in size and armament, and the threat they pose therefore increases, then the anti-fascist movement will necessarily have to be more proactive in ridding areas of their fascist populations.


Remember, he has already stated that Trump supporters qualify as fascist supporters that are iinder threat. So if trump rallies get bigger, or he gets more supporters, we will have to eliminate populations.

This isn' a home invasion, this is killing your political opposition for being popular.


Any attempt to redefine what is meant by certain phrases in the constitution, on the part of a fascist led government, should cause a citizen uprising which results in the termination of the current administrations employment, and their replacement with people who oppose fascist, supremacist ideology.


Not sure what this is about. Your guess is as good as mine.


Any sign that fascist, White Supremacist ideals and the ideals of their apologists, are becoming normalised in the media, or indeed in the White House, should result in civil war.


Well he already said that Trump has normalized fascism and white supremacy, so I guess the civil war is on.


During these times, people will be expected to either punch, shoot or otherwise defeat fascism, or get out of the way.


And yes, that means shoot people. As he said in a follow up post, he is defending genocide of what he calls nazi defenders, which people that support trump are included.

This isn't some hypothetical that he will defend himself if attacked; he is calling for the genocide of Trump supporters.

This is no better than calling for the genocide of blacks or democrats or communists.

It should not be defended or downplayed.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:15 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6



What about those of us who have no great love for Trump, but still think he was and is the better alternative out of the choices we were given in November? And those of us who are a little concerned for what Pence might do were he to take office? Where do you think we fall in this "Trump supporters support facism" thing we're discussing?


What about you? Are you asking if I think you're fascist? No. I don't think everyone that voted for him actually still support him.

Sounds to me like you're not a supporter.



Genuinely not trying to put you on the spot with it, but the question popped into my head and I'm curious.


No problem.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: Grambler




I am using his exact words. You are choosing to ignore those words claiming the context justifies them.


It doesn't justify a thing, it puts his words into said context, contrary to you putting words in his mouth btw. I'm not sure you're mentally fit to actually have a debate right now.

Take a deep breath, then take a walk in nature and come back at us with your focus on objectivity, not on drama queen fake outrage, while further emotionalizing an already heated debate.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Grambler

There are Trump supporters, and Trump supporters. There are those who voted for him, but have now come to understand their folly in doing so, and are pissed as hell about it, and these people pose no threat to the species what so ever, would probably be willing to be involved with the effort to clear away the disease that is fascism from the shores of their nation...

But this is not about sides. The reality is that there are good people, and there are fascists. Good people need to rise up and destroy the fascists around them, and yes, if it comes to it that the threat posed by the fascist has grown large enough or persistent enough, then those who refuse to accept fascism must stand up and eliminate its every last component, wherever they see it, because unless they do, they are accepting it. Only resistance to fascism is acceptable. Appeasement of it, timid acceptance of it through intimidation, outright embracing of it, or anything less than savage opposition, is agreement with it, which is not justifiable for any reason.


So if Trump voters have repented, they may live. The ones who still support him are supporting fascism, and must be eliminated?


Kind of like converting to Islam by means of the sword. The rest are martyrs.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:19 PM
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originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: Grambler




I am using his exact words. You are choosing to ignore those words claiming the context justifies them.


It doesn't justify a thing, it puts his words into said context, contrary to you putting words in his mouth btw. I'm not sure you're mentally fit to actually have a debate right now.

Take a deep breath, then take a walk in nature and come back at us with your focus on objectivity, not on drama queen fake outrage, while further emotionalizing an already heated debate.

I am totaally fine.

You said he was talking about beating an ideology through things like art and other non violence means.

Explain to me how calling for shooting people and having war in the street fits into that context.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:24 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Asktheanimals

There is no equivalent to the Soviet Union involved with this situation.

There is only an equivalent to the Nazi party of the 1930s and 40s, and the allied nations. The fascists and the Trump base occupy the same political space as the Nazis, and everyone who opposes them occupies the same political space as the allied nations.



Keep it coming, let that hate flow out of you. You don't seem to have many defenders here. ATS must be a fascist site. You being on a fascist site, makes you a fascist as well. Obey your prime directive True Brit, eliminate all fascists.
edit on 22-8-2017 by pavil because: (no reason given)



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