It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Christopher Columbus is Next !

page: 4
25
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 04:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
Who cares if Columbus was a bad person, he is a very historic figure in human history. I think we should celebrate human history, the good, and the bad, as it all has made us who we are today. The good, we can try and emulate, the bad we can learn from our mistakes so as not to repeat them. You need to understand both if we are going to build a better future.


Yes, even if everything about their story is Fake News, we should embrace the ignorance of culture and keep the memes.

Columbus discovered America and that the world was round after all, and wasn't a total dumb ass that miscalculated the circumstance of the earth by almost 8x, and considered it a pear shape.

Hopefully the Nazi's that win the next war are as optimistic about creating new history and value disinfo as much as we do and have lots of comfortable 'good feels' stories that aren't burdened by crappy facts and the truth.




posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 04:13 PM
link   
is anyone else besides me wondering where the rigorous set of criteria are for determining who gets stuff named after them and statues of them made? cuz i dont see anything but "he was a bad man, BAN HIM".


right now it appears the zeitgeist has determined that the most important criteria for deciding to diminish someones historical notoriety is whether or not they were a racist or a slave owner. My question is, is that really the most important quality to zero in on out of all the potentially horrible character defects or bad behavior that exist? What about mass murderers? what about liars....cheaters....stealers...adulterers.....pedophiles....etc?

im sure im not the only one who has intuited that we could very easily go down a road where SJWs on steroids decide that pretty much any flaw or PC culture misstep could render someone persona non grata and worthy of having their lives destroyed. In fact, we are already seeing that happen with many high profile individuals on YouTube, Twitter and other platforms. People in some cases who are not even white (Gad Saad), or appear even remotely bigoted (Jordan Peterson), are being publicly shamed and de-platformed, shunned, shut down, protested, attacked, threatened (Brett Weinstein, a jewish man) and generally harassed!

One of the things thats truly frightening about this "movement" for lack of a better word, is that it does not generally have a well articulated set of principles upon which it operates where one could predict with any accuracy what kind of consequences one might face for having trampled upon some obscure sacred cow. Its true that for the most part anything that doesnt toe PC culture values is subject to immediate and fairly merciless attack, but the list of potential offenses is growing quite rapidly.

What it appears we are seeing now is the enlargement of areas of public life in which we can more easily offend. What i mean is, for a long time the only thing most of us really had to worry about was not using a racial slur, epithet, or other derogatory term for certain groups of people. NOW that sphere of potential social pitfalls has at least doubled with the inclusion of any number of attributes or behaviors that could lead SJWs to think you are a NAZI or white supremacist sympathizer. Clothes, HAIRCUTS, unproven associations, music....who knows where it could go from here and how expansive it could become. As a person who grew up in the 80s during the height of the Crips and Bloods nonsense i know that its too easy for a group to decide certain colors worn are worthy of DEATH! I mean, imagine if youre just slightly out of touch with the never ending trends which can change overnight and you go on vacation and come back only to find you showed up at work wearing a color, brand, design etc that was decided while you were gone means you are a hardcore nazi racist scum? Dont laugh....it could happen.


Someone has yet to publicly and with the utmost rationality and clarity explain to the public what is actually going on here and what it means for society and for America. We keep hopping from one offense to the next without having the really deep conversation about what the core principle that underlies all this actually is.

To me it seems there are groups of people who basically want to bully the rest of society to toe the invented lines of morality and ethics that THEY THEMSELVES invented. Notice no one is appealing to any central standard or authority to support what appears to be social engineering. No one has stood up and said "....according to the Laws of Hammurabi or Blacks Law or the Magna Carta or the Bible or ANY OTHER perceived mortal/ethical authority, we have a special dispensation or are empowered to tell and if need be, force, your compliance on these issues". Thats among one of the most annoying, troubling, bothersome and absurd aspects of this entire phenomenon. It appears to be entirely Ad Hoc with no real ultimate goal other than policing peoples language and behavior. I think they have a word for that.....its called Authoritarianism.

to the OP: Columbus is credited for discovering America in HIS time. Likely he is given this credit because out of ALL the other people who supposedly discovered America, nothing ever came of it. So it seems reasonable to give credit to the person who appears to have had the most influence on America becoming what it is TODAY because of his journey here. Now, it IS possible to separate his "discovery" of America from all the bad things he did. I'll prove it to you. Most of us know Leonardo DaVinci was a a child molester, but in popular culture that neat little factoid has failed to gain any traction to the point of causing his name and any association with him to be reviled and declared immoral on account of that one thing. So why not? I mean, in principle isnt it important that this person was a total scumbag who exploited and abused children? How can we continue to praise his genius and inventions knowing he was an evil pedo?

And yet, people compartmentalize things like this ALL THE TIME so they can keep what they like and forget what they dont. But now as a society we are being told that this group over here doesnt like this thing because its associated with this or that so get rid of it. Well guess what guys....maybe ill just decide to start a little project where i dig into the lives of every person we as a society have generally regarded or highly esteemed and just see if we can find a reason to exile them into historical ignominy.

I think i heard somewhere that Ghandi was a hardcore racist against Africans.......



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 04:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy

originally posted by: Nyiah

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
Who cares if Columbus was a bad person, he is a very historic figure in human history. I think we should celebrate human history, the good, and the bad, as it all has made us who we are today. The good, we can try and emulate, the bad we can learn from our mistakes so as not to repeat them. You need to understand both if we are going to build a better future.

That's like saying Genghis Khan gets proximity discovery credit for discovering somewhere his hoards never went to begin with.


Genghis Khan is also a monumental figure in history.

He is not, however, paraded falsely as a discoverer of a land he never touched in his life.


Irrelevant whether Columbus "discovered" America or not, he was the catalyst for one of the most radical, influential changes ever. Columbus had a profound impact on human history, I don't know how anyone can even dispute that fact?

A profound impact, yes. But no more so than his exploratory competitor, Bartolomeu Dias, or even Zheng He of 70 years earlier. When was the last time anyone ever bothered acknowledging their travels?
edit on 8/20/2017 by Nyiah because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 04:19 PM
link   
a reply to: tribal

Oh for christ's sake, it's fricking Detoilet. Since when are they a societal benchmark for change?
edit on Sun Aug 20 2017 by DontTreadOnMe because: Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 05:23 PM
link   
I think we can all agree that Columbus was a complete tool, by our standards and by the standards in the 1400's.

Do we now dismiss any historical figure because they were a dick?

I mean, the sensitivity level of some is reaching such a point that we might have to do a puppy intervention with bubbles and crayons.



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 05:41 PM
link   
a reply to: DBCowboy

It has more to do with the responsibility of conveying history accurately, and less to do with him being a dick. Clearly you know he was a dick, yet we still falsely celebrate Columbus Day...because Italians...



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 05:42 PM
link   
a reply to: DBCowboy

I think we can agree that like other expedition headers elsewhere, he certainly had some impact on the regions he mapped. But to venerate him as if he was the only person in history to find the now US mainland is bogus, disingenuous, and definitely very much revisionist history at it's finest.
All things considered, Cabot deserves much more credit than Columbus regarding impact on American history. HE found the continent. Not the schmuck doing loops around the Caribbean shoreline.

Certainly somebody else may have eventually discovered both the Caribbean islands, C & S American coasts, and eventually, N America if neither had ever set sail, let alone existed, but like I said, Columbus is getting false credit here for an accomplishment that he himself never did.

Refusing to admit that & deal with the butthurt is as much snowflake behavior as anything else is, is it not?



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 05:48 PM
link   
Face reality, yes, conquest with murder - greed - ego ruled the day.



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 05:51 PM
link   

originally posted by: ClovenSky
Well, when you get paid by the hour to protest and you run out of nazis, you have to create something to keep the money flowing. They probably don't really give a rats a$$ what they are protesting, they just wanna get paid. Look how long they stuck around yesterday when everyone else had left.



I'm still waiting for my Soros Dollars...then again, I hear they sometimes pay in NWO Credits or Hollow Earth Reptile Dinars...



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 06:05 PM
link   
You better believe if the civil war was fought over anything other than slavery they’d of never let them make heroes of these rebels who were treasonous.


I doubt many countries erect statues of their traitors who started bloody civil wars on their country.

The general racism in America, particularly in the south allowed this to happen


Indeed I doubt right after the war they would let them erect these statues.


In-fact many of them were erected by white supremacists in reactions to the civil right movement in the 60’s and earlier in the 20's when the KKK was on the rise



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 06:12 PM
link   
Well this time he was a pretty awful guy. Not exactly someone to look up to. He wasn't the first to discover other lands anyway.



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 06:24 PM
link   
Amerigo Vespucci, after whom America is named, was also a trader / transporter of slaves.
So, according to current popular logic, the name America also needs changing.

Perhaps "New Zimbabwe" might be an appropriate alternative?



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 08:08 PM
link   
a reply to: Britguy

Was amerigo jailed for his atrocities in his own time??

Was amerigo responsible for the extent of atrocities Columbus was..

(He might have been lol.. my amerigo history is rusty..)


Do we have an amerigo Vespucci day???

It's not everyone in that time period.. you have to judge morality on a curve..How were they compared to their peers??



Columbus was basically one of the 20 most prolific mass murderers in history..

Not a random slave owner..

He was jailed for his actions by the queen of Spain.. when everyone was crazy brutal..



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 09:09 PM
link   
a reply to: JoshuaCox

I don't think it's a matter of who was the biggest dick or how many deaths they were responsible for, as the current focus seems to be entirely on slavery. That isn't to say that the focus will necessarily change when they get done with that particular aspect.
As such, if they want to distance themselves (and everyone else) entirely from slavery and airbrush it from th historical record, then it follows that it applies across the board, to everyone who ever had one slave or a thousand.

My post was meant to be lighthearted, but these days satire seems to be closer to reality than ever!




posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 09:41 PM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 10:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: TruMcCarthy
Who cares if Columbus was a bad person, he is a very historic figure in human history. I think we should celebrate human history, the good, and the bad, as it all has made us who we are today. The good, we can try and emulate, the bad we can learn from our mistakes so as not to repeat them. You need to understand both if we are going to build a better future.


there's a difference between understanding the past, good and bad, and glorifying the bad parts.



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 10:20 PM
link   
a reply to: DBCowboy

Tool is an understatement..

And the real history should be taught not the suger coated one.. once they are at least late teens it is gruesome

Homie just picked literally the worst example to try to make his point imaginable..
edit on 20-8-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-8-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 10:30 PM
link   
Sounds good to me. Who gives a crap about Columbus? He not only didn't discover America, he never landed on U.S. soil, nor did he contribute anything to the country or it's ideals. and was such an embarrassment the crown disowned him and he died a pauper because of his own B.S.

In fact, Seattle renamed it a few years back to Indigenous People's Day, which is far more appropriate.

So, you got anything I should legitimately care about?



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 10:33 PM
link   

originally posted by: bknapple32
Eh on this one youre barking up the wrong tree. Columbus was a scumbag who accidentally found what he did, and wasnt even the first to do so..

Eff him


Unfortunately a large group of immigrants identify with Columbus. They aren't going to sit ideally by while a part of their cultural identity is removed.



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 10:35 PM
link   
a reply to: Britguy

No the rebuttal is entirely wrapped around slavery..

Any intelligent person is making the treason argument, with slavery as the cherry on top..

All the stuff about statues that are not confederate statues are right wing rags trying to change the narrative..

The argument "you shouldn't have statues of traitors who killed 10s of thousands of US servicemen ON GOVERNMENT PROPERTY!!"

Is the only argument anyone serious on the left with ANY athority is making..

And the treason argument is air tight.. slavery not so much.. slavery is WAY shadier..

So the right tries to shift the argument to something confusing or subjective.

"Why not remove the linen statue on private property??? "

"Why not remove every slave owners statue???"

Only the right is saying those things...


They are putting that veiwpoint onto "the left" (AKA anyone not hard right) and then going and finding some random idiot we have never heard of to parrot it.





Both sides go find one random idiot with no athority and pretend he speaks for all of one group..

ANY Story about tweets , comments or random individuals is garbage..

People say ANYTHING ON THE INTERNET!!



Only the quotes elected officials , heads of big groups and other such bigwigs matter..



new topics

top topics



 
25
<< 1  2  3    5 >>

log in

join