If we gotta put up with Farrakhan well then we gotta put up with the neo-nazis too

originally posted by: notsure1

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: notsure1

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: notsure1

Not that DC needs defending, but look at what he's saying.

He's one of the ones "on the right" that aren't your enemy. Look at your interactions with him. You both instigated one another.

We need to recognize folk on the other side who will eventually be on our side. By "our side", I mean the only side that's left to choose when it comes down to binary morality.

I'd tell him the same but he's reading the same #.

He is saying that I am against free speech because I think swastikas should be illegal. Thats it in a nutshell.

I can't say I agree or disagree with that.

In my Utopian brain (which is adorable, by the way), I imagine swastikas, confederate flags, and crucifixes outlawed. But 1st amendment is 1st amendment.

Is a swastika flag protected by that? I'm not sure. I'll let a court decide because they understand law better than I do.

This isn't my utopia. My taxes pay for wars my religion doesn't support and their taxes pay for abortions they don't support. I accept it all and vote my conscious.

But what I do know is that every time a swastika is presented in my town, I hope it is met with startling anger and outrage. Every time. Boycotting, protesting, pickets, and all that. Because that is also protected.

So no... I can't say it "should" be illegal to wave a swastika.

Great. How do you feel about ISIS in your home town having a rally and waving their flags? Sshould that be legal?

I've used those exact same words and argument right here on ATS (and against DC, I'm sure).

My answer is that I hope it is met with anger, outrage, and maybe a few bottles of pee from rooftops.

But nothing federal. Just like the statues that have been legally removed, I think it should be a town-based legislative reaction, if anything.

Federally speaking, marijuana is illegal but my state is cool with it. Would I force another state to do that? Nope. But would I support a state if they wanted to outlaw swastikas? # yeah, I would.

But not as a nation. Amendments and all that. Those thingies are our default rights.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: notsure1

criminal.findlaw.com...

Cmon man... how about your words?????? It is not just indecent exposure I cant put up offensive slogans or words either can I?

a reply to: Abysha

But would I support a state if they wanted to outlaw swastikas? # yeah, I would.

That is all I said That I would support that law. That makes me stupid and unAmerican and against free speech.

Why cant I raise a flag that says F%%% the police? Is that legal hell no..... because it is obscene and offensive.

BUt I still dont see how it infringes on my freedom of speech?

a reply to: JinMI

I believe you have been categorically refuted...

Im gonna go to bed now thanks guys feels good to win......

originally posted by: notsure1
a reply to: Abysha

But would I support a state if they wanted to outlaw swastikas? # yeah, I would.

That is all I said That I would support that law. That makes me stupid and unAmerican and against free speech.

Well I think a lot of that comes down to federal law bowing down to state law. Something these right-wing folk should support.

See why it's such a grey issue?

originally posted by: notsure1
Why cant I raise a flag that says F%%% the police? Is that legal hell no..... because it is obscene and offensive.

BUt I still dont see how it infringes on my freedom of speech?

Is that actually illegal? Honest question, not loaded. I didn't know that.

a reply to: notsure1

I dunno where you live but where I'm at, you can fly that flag, wear that shirt, and slap it on your car with a bumper sticker.

a reply to: Abysha

Ice-T has put that false statement to bed.

originally posted by: notsure1

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: notsure1

criminal.findlaw.com...

Cmon man... how about your words?????? It is not just indecent exposure I cant put up offensive slogans or words either can I?

You can, and depending upon your local ordinances, it might get you a court date. At which point, you can fight it to a higher court, etc... up to the SCOTUS on the grounds of 1st amendment protections. As I understand the 1st amendment, you should win. It's not the words themselves but the context upon which you present them.

For example, on a flag you could have:

"F**K You" - Not threatening someones life, merely an expression of your feelings.

"I want to F**King kill < name here >" - Could be interpreted as a threat depending upon the context in which it flies.
- You have a known bad relationship with < name here > and have a history of violence toward them. This could be construed as a viable threat, and could result in a court date. That is for a judge.jury to determine.
- You have a passing or no relationship with < name here > with no history of violence against them or anyone else. This could still get you a court date, but is likely you will win on the grounds of free speech since "want" is not an action.

"I'm going to F**King kill < name here >" - Could be interpreted as a threat depending upon the context in which it flies.
- You have a known bad relationship with < name here > and have a history of violence toward them. This could be construed as a viable threat, and could result in a court date. Likely you might get fined or convicted since "going" is an action that indicates your intent is to carry it out, and have a history of this as well. That is for a judge/jury to determine.
- You have a passing relationship with < name here > with no history of violence against them or anyone else. This could still get you a court date, but is likely you will win on the grounds of free speech.

It's not the word but the intent and context that can get you in trouble. This is why lawyers are experts at words and language. Why did former president Bill Clinton ask the prosecutor for the definition of "is" during his impeachment proceedings?

You want this to be a cut and dry, simple yes/no answer but it is not. There is a lot to do with context, intent, history, etc... Simply flying a flag with not context or intent (even though some flags do have a history of intent) does not translate to your intent. You could be flying it as a form of protest, or artistic expression to get peoples reactions, because you like the imagery, because you are a reenactor for that period, etc...

This is what the SCOTUS has the burden as the final arbiter of judgement in the United States. TO decide these type of gray area court cases. Last June, the SCOTIS rules that there is NO hate speech exemption to the Constitution. That is the final word on that topic...period. Will that stop a local or sate LEO from citing or arresting you. NO, it won't. But, you have the right to defend yourself in a court of law. The accuser must prove you are guilty under some standing law or ordinance. And that law or ordinance cannot usurp the United States Constitution.

As I said, there is not cut and dry answer. But in most cases you mentioned that did not involve already illegal acts, or infringe on others constitutional rights, you should be found not guilty.

Sorry it took so long to respond. Between sleep and a wedding today....I just got back to this thread.

neo nazis kill people, nation of islam dont