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Communism was not so bad for some ?

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posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 01:43 PM
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Now I am not a communist and enjoy my freedoms here in cloudy England. I do know a few old timers who hark back to some good times in communist Poland and communist Albania they look back to a time when a lot of ordinary folk had a happy life the land was used to its full potential everyone contributed and no one went hungry. There was no billionaires strutting around and the pay differentials between the workers and managers was not to great.
A you tube princess who I think is an Angel ( IMHO ) has made me think of this thread and maybe get some input both positive and negative.
Just yesterday Sylvie Ivanova as NewEarth on YT has published a part 1 Autobiography from her beginnings in Bulgaria it is long at 1hr and 41m
but amazing maybe ? if you take the time to watch..

www.youtube.com...


www.youtube.com... ( Newearth Videos )

( Have just posted the link as I cannot seem to get the video Up ? Inserted after the = and then tried after the second = no Joy.. No worries whatever and watch if you like from the link. Will one last try ) MMM cannot.

From Wiki for interest..



In political and social sciences, communism (from Latin communis, "common, universal")[1][2] is the philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of the communist society, which is a socioeconomic order structured upon the common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money,[3][4] and the state.[5][6] Communism includes a variety of schools of thought, which broadly include Marxism, anarchism (anarchist communism), and the political ideologies grouped around both. All these share the analysis that the current order of society stems from its economic system, capitalism, that in this system, there are two major social classes: the working class—who must work to survive, and who make up the majority within society—and the capitalist class—a minority who derives profit from employing the working class, through private ownership of the means of production—and that conflict between these two classes will trigger a revolution. The revolution, in turn, will establish social ownership of the means of production, which is, according to this analysis, the primary element in the transformation of society towards communism. Criticism of communism can be roughly divided into those concerning themselves with the practical aspects of 20th century communist states,[7] and those concerning themselves with communist principles and theory.




According to Richard Pipes, the idea of a classless, egalitarian society first emerged in Ancient Greece.[10] The 5th-century Mazdak movement in Persia (Iran) has been described as "communistic" for challenging the enormous privileges of the noble classes and the clergy, for criticizing the institution of private property and for striving to create an egalitarian society.[11][12] At one time or another, various small communist communities existed, generally under the inspiration of Scripture.[13] In the medieval Christian church, for example, some monastic communities and religious orders shared their land and their other property (see Religious and Christian communism). Communist thought has also been traced back to the works of the 16th-century English writer Thomas More. In his treatise Utopia (1516), More portrayed a society based on common ownership of property, whose rulers administered it through the application of reason. In the 17th century, communist thought surfaced again in England, where a Puritan religious group known as the "Diggers" advocated the abolition of private ownership of land.[14] Eduard Bernstein, in his 1895 Cromwell and Communism[15] argued that several groups during the English Civil War, especially the Diggers, espoused clear communistic, agrarian ideals, and that Oliver Cromwell's attitude towards these groups was at best ambivalent and often hostile.[15] Criticism of the idea of private property continued into the Age of Enlightenment of the 18th century, through such thinkers as Jean Jacques Rousseau in France. Later, following the upheaval of the French Revolution, communism emerged as a political doctrine.[16] In the early 19th century, various social reformers founded communities based on common ownership. But unlike many previous communist communities, they replaced the religious emphasis with a rational and philanthropic basis.[17] Notable among them were Robert Owen, who founded New Harmony in Indiana (1825), and Charles Fourier, whose followers organized other settlements in the United States such as Brook Farm (1841–47).[17] In its modern form, communism grew out of the socialist movement in 19th-century Europe. As the Industrial Revolution advanced, socialist critics blamed capitalism for the misery of the proletariat—a new class of urban factory workers who labored under often-hazardous conditions. Foremost among these critics were Marx and his associate Friedrich Engels. In 1848, Marx and Engels offered a new definition of communism and popularized the term in their famous pamphlet The Communist Manifesto.[17]


en.wikipedia.org...

PEACE guys in these troubled times and best luck to all wherever yo may BEE.



edit on 19 8 2017 by skywatcher44 because: Added Link




posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 01:48 PM
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It often seems to me that the old Commie bugbear gets pulled out, dusted off, and used to show why one should adhere to the person's belief. On paper, yeah, Communism works fine - as does capitalism. On paper, any style of political thought comes off great. Unfortunately, people being what they are, any and all systems will be turn into garbage. But I agree - Communism isn't totally, 110% all-out evil. neither is Capitalism, Socialism or doing what your neighbor's head of Holy Lettuce tells you. More reasons why I detest labels. (Even though I use quite a few to describe m'self, natch.)



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 01:51 PM
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Communist text, and theory, the creation of 'communism' was for the State, Government, Class, Monetary systems to be abolished, and the means of productions to be controlled by the proletariat, yet people say that communism is a dictatorship and authoritarian?



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: skywatcher44
Communism was fine for people in the Communist party, especially those at the top of the Communist party.
But the local populations who rebelled against it at the end of the Eighties evidently thought it was terrible. That's why their governments had to build walls and fences to keep them in. As soon as the fences came down, starting with Hungary, people started escaping.

Do you know the difference between Capitalism and Communism?
Capitalism is the exploitation of man by man.
Communism is the other way round.



edit on 19-8-2017 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: skywatcher44

Nothing is bad for everyone. There are some in every system that do great. Sorry though, communism is impossible to function in reality. No system of government that gives too much power to a central authority works without becoming insanely corrupt.

That is why the democratic republic that is the US is the best system of government. When it is adhered to, it allows anyone who is capable to succeed. It prevents corruption, etc.. Why do you think people want to restore the Us to a true democratic republic rather than the modified socialist republic that it is now. It has become corrupted by the socialist policies that have been enacted.

The only system that can truly function without leading to total fascism is a system that holds people personally responsible for their station, guarantees personal liberty and allows a free market to prevail (although it has to be kept free of corruption by an involved populace).

There is a reason that at the beginning of this country it required you to be a white, male, land owner to be a citizen. It had little to do with racism or sexism. It had to do with keeping an involved, aware populace.

We have gotten to where non whites and women can be an involved, aware constituency but you can't have a majority of the populace feeding off of the rest. It just doesn't work. They are manipulated and controlled by a corrupt group of powerful controllers.

Jaden



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 02:08 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI

Yep it ended in general with some Men mainly taking to much advantage although China is prospering and many of the ordinary folk are happy.
Mr Putin has a healthy percentage of the population supporting his ways although not quite classed as a communist country any more.
The video is interesting from Sylvies unique perspective when she was but a clever girl amongst it all.. Can anyone post it I failed ?
edit on 19 8 2017 by skywatcher44 because: Added.



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: skywatcher44

The main problem with communism is that it only ever really work's for those whom are members of the party.

Freedom of belief.
Freedom of movement within reason of course.
Freedom to buy and sell within reason once again.
Freedom to express yourself within reason once again so not total free speech but truth not being suppressed.

These were mainstays of OUR British socialism but there were always the loony left waiting in the wing's to destroy it and take us too far just as the loony right like Cameron and now May whom are hiding the true suffering of there governance using the convenience of zero hours contracts etc to hide the true number of unemployed behind a smoke screen of lies and benefit sanctioning (a clear breach of human right's but that is why they took away the CAB to prevent people fighting them in court).

There are two regime's we need to be leery of.

Communism especially atheist Stalinist and Maoist Communism and UNREGULATED TOTAL CAPITALISM.
Both of these have there fanatical believers and self deluded total converts, both of these have there propagandists and will walk over people destroying lives and nations to attain dominance when unleashed.

Currently we in the UK are under a government of devout capitalist believers, hence the destruction of our public services and back door privatization of the NHS, the removal of people's right's and the tolerance toward modern day slavery in the form of zero hours contract's.

Make no bones about it they are every bit as bad as the communists and would kill just as many people to get there way.

Our moderate conservative government's of the past are now a thing of the past as indeed are our moderate labor government's (thank's to the right wingers that hijacked the Labour party such as Blair and Brown whom were definitely not true labour).

Here is the problem, when the pendulum swing's it always swing's back, too far to the right it will go too far to the left and vice versa, both form's of government are actually not good for the nation but there is a grey line between them were more sane government belong's, in this were both Labour and the conservative's once sat there governance was never to everyone's liking but it was good for all more or less.

Currently our government is too far to the right, the capitalist right because believe me they are not for we British people at all and anyone that deludes themselves into voting for them on that count because they fear Labour multiculturalism is wrong and self deluded as well as a propaganda puppet and vice versa Labour's multicultural policy's are too far away from representing our own people and that rub's too many people, including formerly devout Labour supporters up the wrong way and has led to this swing to the right as a consequence with the Tory's now thinking they can get away with anything they want.

So Communism evil, Capitalism evil and both break the scales of justice and harm people.

Middle of the road but with a mixture of both conservative and socialist idea's is very good but we now have no party to represent that.



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 03:10 PM
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a reply to: DISRAELI


Do you know the difference between Capitalism and Communism?
Capitalism is the exploitation of man by man.
Communism is the other way round.


Might put that in my sig, I'll credit you for it. Star for that gem.


On topic...

You know, I'm torn.
I've lived through Capitalism, or more aptly Corporatism my whole life...
Never once been able to live in a Society that means tested Socialism or Communism...

I know, works on paper yada yada...

How many Communist countries of the past weren't interfered with though...
Were they given a true chance to strive in that system.

Venezuela comes to mind, a thriving Socialist State, made redundant by outside interference and eventual human greed...
Libya another...

Even Cuba, probably the longest running and "most successful" (for want of a better word) Communist State...
But not immune to interference from both Super Powers (US & Russia)...

I suppose you could look at China as a failed Communist State, but with 1 and a half billion mouths to feed, that's not a surprise.


I'd like see it go the distance, without outside interference, because by far a mix of Socialism & Capitalism is the most ideal & fair situation for any Nation.
I think that's why I like Corbyn, even if I didn't vote for him.



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: Hazardous1408
Thank you, but I ought in strict honesty to point out that it was one of the jokes current in the Cold War period and not original to me.



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 03:40 PM
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a reply to: skywatcher44

"" Communism was not so bad for some ? ""

Not bad at all especially the ones that got (and still get) rich from it.




edit on Aug-19-2017 by xuenchen because: thecastrofamilyarebillionaires



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 04:44 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

Those old timers I mentioned worked on the land they were not big party members and Syvie in her honest Video states her parents were not in the party but life was better for most then in her eyes than it is now for so many .



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 05:02 PM
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My Civics teacher in the 8th grade (and that was a very long time ago) once stated Communism in its purest form is most likely Shangri La . The most perfect government . However , she added a disclaimer - That type of government can never exist...



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 05:13 PM
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I've often thought that I would be a happier person if i had been born in Cuba.



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 06:39 PM
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It is nothing but a pipe dream that always ends up using human beings as the raw material to build. What is left is a monstrosity.



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 06:47 PM
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a reply to: wheresthebody

Ha, you mean happier when you escaped to the US.
Actually Cuba under Castro when all the propaganda is out of the way was actually a far nicer place than it was under the MAFIA whom previously ran the island, that said the commies are not the nicest bunch and I once watched an old man living in a run down shack tell how he had built a house for his family with his own two hand's he was a poor man so scrimped and saved and once he had built it a member of the local communist party had seen it then became envious of the house this guy had built over more than a decade of hard work and then came and simply took his house off him in the name of the party before moving himself and his family into it (Stealing it from the guy whom had built it, a man whom was a truly poor and common Cuban).

That is the reality of communism in Cuba for the majority of poor people whom live there, on a national level and on average they had at least WHEN the soviets were pouring money into the island nation subsidizing it a far higher standard of living than they had before Castro when the American Mafia had ruled the country, suddenly they had free medical care, schooling were most of the kid's had previously been illiterate etc but with it came the party and abuse of power by such as that poor guy suffered.

Also many of them want freedom and not all Cuban's had welcomed Castro, many had fled to the US as you know.
The problem once again is Communism without honesty and ruled by a PARTY which form's a new ruling middle and upper class, look at Castro's own home's around the island including a full private small island that would shame most billionaires with it's own private beach and yacht.
There is this small thing you always find in communism, the hypocrisy of the party from it's Russian Dacha's to the Cuban hide away's the Party always lives like royalty and let's not mention the Un's of NK or Mao of China with there imperial emperor status and cult following worshiped as god's on earth by the deluded and brain washed mass of the people under them.



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 04:18 AM
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a reply to: skywatcher44

Seems you make your basis on meeting 1 person,I have met several from Cuba,Venezuela,and other So American countries,they fled ,they had nothing good to say other then the government takes away anything of value,sounds like another liberal trying to justify communism,nice try not even close sad



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 04:31 AM
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originally posted by: DrunkenMimeMaster
It often seems to me that the old Commie bugbear gets pulled out, dusted off, and used to show why one should adhere to the person's belief. On paper, yeah, Communism works fine - as does capitalism. On paper, any style of political thought comes off great. Unfortunately, people being what they are, any and all systems will be turn into garbage. But I agree - Communism isn't totally, 110% all-out evil. neither is Capitalism, Socialism or doing what your neighbor's head of Holy Lettuce tells you. More reasons why I detest labels. (Even though I use quite a few to describe m'self, natch.)


communism's problem is that not one government has actually tried out marx's principle.
lenin's version might have well have been called susan, stalin's was even more removed, every other country that used the term communist wasn't actually following the outline.
throw in the fact these countries attempting a hard form of socialism were generally under embargo, like venezuela is, and the exercise becomes null and void.
add outside influences constantly trying to topple those goes government's, again like venezuela and, it was always doomed to fail.

it's so much easier for capitalist governments to keep repeating their boom and bust failure while keep repeating anything else wouldn't work keeping the richest happy and, as a look around here shows the uneducated masses dumbed down.



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 07:53 AM
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originally posted by: Oldtimer2
a reply to: skywatcher44

Seems you make your basis on meeting 1 person,I have met several from Cuba,Venezuela,and other So American countries,they fled ,they had nothing good to say other then the government takes away anything of value,sounds like another liberal trying to justify communism,nice try not even close sad


Actually OT2 I was highlighting a you tube influence and thought it was worth a watch along with Sylvies other productions.
I am not a communist as stated and enjoy my freedoms if I was to happen around some terrorist incident for instance I would be first to enjoy taking out any terrorist and have a UK Army background that would back me well. AH

And Growler if you think most on here are dumbed down why comment ? and be involved ? AH

Can no one fix the video ? or is it only I that watched ? Peace yalllllllllllllllllll..



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 08:34 AM
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a reply to: skywatcher44

Is there any recent ideology of government that has murdered with true intent more than the many, many millions In various places such as the Soviet Union, China, etc., please put that into your baseless argument here.



posted on Aug, 20 2017 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: Aliensun

Refer to the post above ref highlighting a video. Another AH have a good day. Can you link the video ?
FFssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssake.




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