Should Christians Support Trump?

a reply to: yuppa


Well, that's your problem then, because the Jesus and the New Testament do not support your right to kill your enemies. That's Old Testament stuff.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

So who would the real Christian have voted for and why?

They had no choices. No one who genuinely is a moral person could vote for either and feel good, or support them.

But the topic isn't about voting, since the voting has already been done. The topic is should they actually support him now as President, in his plans and actions.

There are many people who voted for Trump who no longer support him. Or simply voted for him to keep Hilary away, but still think he's a POS that has destroyed this country.

a reply to: yuppa

Thats canadians not christians., christians arent polite.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: yuppa


Well, that's your problem then, because the Jesus and the New Testament do not support your right to kill your enemies. That's Old Testament stuff.

Ummm No it does not specifically say to not kill anyone. you dont commit murder but you can kill in self defense.

I would kill my neighbor if they tried to kill me in self defense. Just as I would expect th esame. therefore I treat my neighbor as I would want to be treated. And what do you know...thats one of the things I am to do as a NT christian.

The 10 is condensed into 3 and given to Us under a new covenant. We also do not have to keep the sabbath either.

originally posted by: Aeshma
a reply to: yuppa

Thats canadians not christians., christians arent polite.

Those are hypocrites if they are not polite. And not christians by action.

a reply to: yuppa

Ummm No it does not specifically say to not kill anyone. you dont commit murder but you can kill in self defense.

I know that you believe that. And, I agree with you, common sense wise. But the Jesus, nor the New Testament give you permission to kill your enemy, even in self defense.

Biblically speaking, suppose you come home and find that your enemy already has raped (not killed) your wife/daughter. Can you kill him? Do you have to catch him in the act of raping your wife/daughter in order to be justified in killing him? What would Jesus do? Forgive him, and tell him to go and "sin no more"?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: yuppa

Ummm No it does not specifically say to not kill anyone. you dont commit murder but you can kill in self defense.

I know that you believe that. And, I agree with you, common sense wise. But the Jesus, nor the New Testament give you permission to kill your enemy, even in self defense.

Biblically speaking, suppose you come home and find that your enemy already has raped (not killed) your wife/daughter. Can you kill him? Do you have to catch him in the act of raping your wife/daughter in order to be justified in killing him? What would Jesus do? Forgive him, and tell him to go and "sin no more"?

Nope Ill post a link to this page. read it.
what does the bible teach about killing and self defense

Its only wrong to commit murder. Murder is in cold blood and planned by definition.

a reply to: yuppa


Thanks for the link. I see a whole lot of Old Testament references there! There is nothing from Jesus except "Turn the other cheek" and "He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword", used as arguments why many Christians believe that Christianity teaches passivity. Then, the author goes on to quote the Old Testament.

Look, I agree with your ideology of self defense. I just don't think Jesus and ideal Christianity does. But, don't worry, there's a lot of Christianity that I don't agree with. Most of it, actually.

"Should Christians support Trump"? I don't know. "Should" they (Christians) support people that want to "pass" a "law", to make it a "law",.. so they can know what's in it? How's about, you tell us?

a reply to: windword

You're kind of right. To a point. "Love your enemy as yourself ". "They steal your coat, give them your cloak also".."Turn the other other cheak",.. "Follow peace with all men.." All good laws to obey. Peace and humility are good traits and should be honored. But there is also a .."time to heal, a time to wound." "a time to break, a time to build" "A time to gather a time to cast-away. ... Being a "Christian" doesn't mean being a sacrifice for the heathen. That has already been done.

a reply to: murphy22

But there is also a .."time to heal, a time to wound." "a time to break, a time to build" "A time to gather a time to cast-away. ...

I agree. But those are all Old Testament quotes. Yuppa keeps telling me that the Old Testament doesn't apply to Christians, but can't site Jesus or the New Testament in general condoning killing your enemy, ever. There is a caveat in Romans about the how "authorities" have God's authority.

If Christians need the Old Testament to justify self defense, but are reluctant to accept its gruesomeness, that's okay. I said, blame Jesus, because he said he didn't come to change one jot of the law. So, the Old Testament is still good.

a reply to: yuppa

I don't know. What did Jesus do when he walked into the temple and found the "money changers",.."raping" his "Father's house"? He went full, wrath of God on them! Man was made in God's image. Jesus was/is God, in a mans image. Only unbelievers or the ignorant ask,.. "What would Jesus do"? This is dumbest question on earth. Jesus did what needed doing and said what needed said, when it needed doing, or said! Anyone that has ever really read the Bible, understands. The "Old Testament" and Jesus. Are one in the same.

a reply to: murphy22

I don't know. What did Jesus do when he walked into the temple and found the "money changers",.."raping" his "Father's house"?

That's not an equivalent. The money changer were selling birds and animals for sacrifice, for profit......like the way the Catholic church used to sell penances. They weren't "raping" the body of Christ".

Your body is your temple.
John 2:19
Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days."

But when push comes to shove, and lives are at stake, run. Don't worry about your stuff, just run.

Matthew 24
“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation, then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house.

18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.

Luke 14:25
Now great multitudes were going with him. He turned and said to them, 26"If anyone comes to me, and doesn't disregard his own father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he can't be my disciple.

I understand, you think Christianity should make sense and be based on common sense. It isn't.

a reply to: windword
They are "Old Testament". I agree. But I believe Jesus is "God's word" in the flesh. Jesus didn't tiptoe into the temple and politely ask the money changers, "Can y'all stop using my father's house as a place of profit"? (It hurts my feelings). No! He went in and made a statement that was "biblical". He "didn't turn the other cheak". Which is also biblical...but not contrary. The Bible/God's word doesn't contradict itself. Never has. Only the ignorant agree with the serpent/the Devil. And the serpent said to Eve,.. "If you eat of it, surely you won't die"? Satan was the first "lawyer". What did Jesus say to the lawyers? Jesus wasn't love, He is practical and truth. Truth is love. Not "feelings".

a reply to: windword
There is light and dark. That's common sense. My statement is an absolute "equivalent" or it wouldn't have been mentioned in the Bible. Don't bother bringing Roman Catholicism into Christianity. It was never Christian to begin with. However, they've been a great historical reference of the early church. Like the NAZIS, they kept "good records".

a reply to: windword

I'm not sure what you're trying to say by quoting these verses. Do you have "stuff" that's more important than salvation/redemption? Do you live in Judea? We already know the bible says to respect (love) your elders (mother, father). Do you not comprehend what Jesus was saying? God basically said in Genesis, "Don't eat that, you'll die"! Then the Serpent said, "surely, you will not die"? ..Even the Devil knows the word and quotes them.

a reply to: murphy22


If you'd ever been raped, or knew someone that had, you would know that money changers in the temple selling animals for sacrifice is not an equivalent to rape.

Jesus, nor the New Testament support you killing your enemy. If you need biblical justification to do so, you need to go to the Old Testament, because it isn't in the New Testament or among any of Jesus' teaching.

On a side note, I'm sorry that you are so far from understanding the nuance of biblical scripture and that my quotes, and their application to these arguments, have gone over your head.

www.biblicalselfdefense.com...


Windword. The above is New testament proof. Go down to the section for the new testament.

a reply to: murphy22

Jesus didn't tiptoe into the temple and politely ask the money changers, "Can y'all stop using my father's house as a place of profit"? (It hurts my feelings). No! He went in and made a statement that was "biblical".

He also didn't kill them. You know......."Get thee behind me Satan", and don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!

The Bible/God's word doesn't contradict itself. Never has.

Yes it does. All the time! Too many cooks spoil the stew, that's the problem with the Bible.

"If you eat of it, surely you won't die"? Satan was the first "lawyer".

That's not a "lawyerly" statement. That's a salesman's line. And, it was true. Death is an illusion that the blind and ignorant folks stuck in their bodies believe.

What did Jesus say to the lawyers?

46Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.

Jesus' lawyers were people pretending to know God's law, kinda like a lot of Christians today.

He is practical and truth. Truth is love. Not "feelings".

Christianity requires faith and a personal experience. You can't more touchy feely than that.

a reply to: yuppa

The above is New testament proof.

No it's not! OMG! Do you even read your own links? That's ALL Old Testament quotes!