9/11 myths debunked . . .

Originally posted by Skibum

Second, did anyone see that 37 story building in Madrid, just a few weekends ago burn? Damn thing burned for 24 hours with whitehot flame gutting the building. Did its structure fail from heat? Do you think it was built better than a 110 story skyscraper?

Just to point out the obvious. the skyscraper in Madrid was not severely damaged by an airplane flying at top speed before it caught fire.

Once again, BUILDING 7 WAS NOT HIT BY AN AIRPLANE!!!

Good stuff, LoneGunman.

I am curious to how people who believe the official story will account for the rapid fall of the buildings. They fell in approximately ten seconds, pancaking and all. Gravity's been hitting weights lately.

Another good point is how the supposed "brutal" impact of the plane had virtually no effect on the direction of collapse. Don't get me wrong, the plane hit hard, but as we all saw, the buildings withstood the impact. Funny how the people who say it wasn't designed to take a plane hit can't explain why the towers failed to immediately collapse.

And what about the secretive clean-up? Why did the guy buy all the steel, then sell it to China with a $50 profit per ton, netting over $200 grand? Why all the insider trading before 9/11? How come government officials were warned not to go to New York on 9/10?

Here's the killer: why was the CIA running drills that MORNING on flying planes into high-rise buildings? Man, this is PUBLIC. They admittedly were running drills that morning, before and during the "attack." And if the purpose of these drills was to stop such an attack, why did it STILL happen???

Pop Mechanics did a great job proving all the "nutcases" wrong.

Because they were taken by surprise.......

I think people really need to just learn to accept the very simple truth that the planes were highjacked by terrorists who attacked the United States.

Simple as that.

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by Skibum

Second, did anyone see that 37 story building in Madrid, just a few weekends ago burn? Damn thing burned for 24 hours with whitehot flame gutting the building. Did its structure fail from heat? Do you think it was built better than a 110 story skyscraper?

Just to point out the obvious. the skyscraper in Madrid was not severely damaged by an airplane flying at top speed before it caught fire.

Once again, BUILDING 7 WAS NOT HIT BY AN AIRPLANE!!!

I realize it was not hit by an airplane. But since I don't think there was enough time to do a full structural assessment of wtc7 before it collapsed, It would be impossible to say exactly why wtc7 collapsed. I realize you insist it was intentionally demolished, thats your perogative. I think it was a combination of fire and structural damage caused by the collapse of wtc 1 or 2. I understand there was a large storage tank of diesel fuel for a generator in wtc 7 which may have helped a little. If wtc 7 was brought down by controlled demolition secretly, why did they wait til clean up to knock down buildings 3,4,5,and 6 as well as a few other buildings that were severely damaged? Why didn't they bring those down secretly as well?

I realize you think that there is no way that wtc7 could have been damaged by the falling towers because it had a street between them and debris would have had to go a whopping 300 some odd feet to hit it, but you do realize that buildings that were even further away suffered structural damage don't you. Example WFC 3 where american express was located. Many other buildings were damaged other than the wtc buildings, many of them were across streets a good distance away from the towers.

Bldg Size (Square Feet) Occupied Status
1 WTC 4,761,416 4,507,467 Destroyed
2 WTC 4,761,416 4,576,215 Destroyed
1 Liberty Plza 2,121,437 2,081,203 Partial Collapse
7 WTC 2,000,000 2,000,000 Destroyed
5 WTC 783,520 780,873 Destroyed
4 WTC 576,000 561,491 Destroyed
6 WTC 537,694 537,694 Destroyed
Totals 15,541,483 15,044,943
Office Buildings Damaged
Bldg Size (Square Feet) Occupied Location
2 WFC 2,591,244 2,542,244 Across Street - West
3 WFC 2,263,855 2,247,611 Across Street - West
1 WFC 1,461,365 1,323,865 Across Street - Southwest
1 Bank T. Plza. 1,415,086 1,415,086 Across Street South
140 West 1,171,540 1,171,540 Across Street - North
90 Church 950,000 950,000 Across Street - North
195 Broadway
875,000 676,587 Across Street - East, Blocked by Millenium Hotel
22 Cortland
668,110 555,897 Across Street - East
90 West
350,000 335,251 Across Street - South
130 Cedar
135,000 124,300 Across Street - South
114 Liberty
69,004 69,004 Across Street - South
26 Cortland
25,000 25,000 Across Street - East
106 Liberty
18,000 18,000 Across Street - South
110 Liberty
6,000 6,000 Across Street - South
Totals
11,999,204
11,460,385

Hotels Damaged
55 Church/Millennium Hotel 380,542 AcrossStreet - East, Likely Destroyed
3 WTC/Marriot World Trade Hotel Destroyed
www.buildings.com...

While I realize that only a few actually collapsed on that day, several suffered structural damage. I feel it is possible that wtc could have been damaged enough to either collapse due to fire or to collapse eventually on its own.

Now before you go into your spiel about steel melting and whatever. Let me remind you, it is not necessary for steel to melt in order to bend or fail. If you think it is, remember blacksmiths don't exactly melt the steel in order to form it into the shapes they desire.

Building 7 was 300 feet away from the north tower with buildings 5 & 6 in between it and WTC. It was nearly untouched, and it was a very large building full of secret documents. It was all part of the "Shock and Awe" to get the peeps behind the beginning of tyranny.

Think about what your intuition told you when you first saw it. The gut is hardly ever wrong. Now think about that nagging feeling when you buy the party line. It just doesnt quite seem right now does it?

Use the powers that were given to you at birth to tell when a predator is stalking you, for my friends he is a great hunter and has lead so many to "take the bait".

Now before you go into your spiel about steel melting and whatever. Let me remind you, it is not necessary for steel to melt in order to bend or fail. If you think it is, remember blacksmiths don't exactly melt the steel in order to form it into the shapes they desire.

Think about what you are saying. To make the steel malable enough for both buildings to fall in there own footprint all the steel would have to reach the exact point of failure for it to keep from toppling.

Think about the leverage on a 110 story building. The split second some key structural members reached that point of failure it would fall in that direction, not straight down.

Becides it falling straight down, you are missing the point entirly.

They fell too fast, as if each floor disapeared before the one above hit it. There is a huge amount of resistance at each floor. There was no resistance, it went woosh!!! Straight down because each floor exploded before the upper floors hit. Like dropping an object with nothing but the resistance of air.

That my friend is truly, the smoking gun.

LGM

Just some advice, but never follow that "the gut is never wrong" philosophy. The gut is wrong plenty of times.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Think about what you are saying. To make the steel malable enough for both buildings to fall in there own footprint all the steel would have to reach the exact point of failure for it to keep from toppling.

If you watch the clips of the towers falling one, at least one of the started to lean as it fell, Once that started it was all over, the rest of the supports gave way and it came straight down.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
Think about the leverage on a 110 story building. The split second some key structural members reached that point of failure it would fall in that direction, not straight down.

Its not like a tree, essentially one piece. Its many parts, as soon as the loads start exceeding the designed weights its gonna come apart. Once sections of the building start to fail loads are transferred to remaining structural members. It only takes a fraction of a second to transfer the load in ways it wasn't designed to handle the steel will fail.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
They fell too fast, as if each floor disapeared before the one above hit it. There is a huge amount of resistance at each floor. There was no resistance, it went woosh!!! Straight down because each floor exploded before the upper floors hit. Like dropping an object with nothing but the resistance of air.

Exactly how fast should they have fallen.

While I am sure the buildings were designed to withstand damage,
As far as I know no building is designed to withstand the force of almost one third of its weight being dropped onto the remaining structure. Its all about load transfer. It doesn't just transfer down to the next floor. Sure there may be huge amounts of resistance at each floor, but with the amount of weight being transferred downwards its not going to pause at each floor. Perhaps if it had only been the top few stories that had collapsed, but not when almost one third of the weight suddenly gives way.


You people must think that buildings are designed to withstand anything.
That is not the case. The weight of the top 30 or so floors coming down on top of the remaining structure is something that is not planned for. Once the engineered load is exceeded, especially by the amount that the towers experienced when the upper floors dropped onto the lower floors, everything in its path is going to fail in the exact way it did.






[edit on 26/2/05 by Skibum]

Again, Skibum, why talk about speculative topics? Why not talk about what's admittedly fact?

It is a FACT that the CIA was running 9/11-type drills that very morning. It is a FACT that the clean up was kept top secret and all the steel was sold to China. It is a FACT that a government document called Operation Northwoods gives the government the power to create 9/11 style attacks in order to manipulate the people. It is a FACT that Dick Cheney told NORAD to stand down on 9/11.

I could go on and on. Instead on speculating on how the deed went down, I think we should focus on who was REALLY behind it. I can't believe people think that a handful of terrorists would take on the greatest military muscle that the world has ever seen!! Why would bin laden (who was a CIA asset, btw) and his cronies take on the mighty US military?? That's just asking to be taken out with the quickness.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Again, Skibum, why talk about speculative topics? Why not talk about what's admittedly fact?

It is a FACT that the CIA was running 9/11-type drills that very morning. It is a FACT that the clean up was kept top secret and all the steel was sold to China. It is a FACT that a government document called Operation Northwoods gives the government the power to create 9/11 style attacks in order to manipulate the people. It is a FACT that Dick Cheney told NORAD to stand down on 9/11.

I could go on and on. Instead on speculating on how the deed went down, I think we should focus on who was REALLY behind it. I can't believe people think that a handful of terrorists would take on the greatest military muscle that the world has ever seen!!

Why would bin laden (who was a CIA asset, btw) and his cronies take on the mighty US military?? That's just asking to be taken out with the quickness.

The FACTS you mentioned...where di you get them from?
Bin Laden a CIA asset? Who gave you such precious information? If it's a book I'd love to read it.

And regarding "I can't believe people think that a handful of terrorists would take on the greatest military muscle that the world has ever seen!! "

I can't believe that so many can't believe that it is much easier for the USA to be taken down by a handful of terrorists than by another Army.

All that said, I believe our government has huge responsibilites in what happened that day and after. But not in the way of actually having an active hands in 9/11. I believe that this administration was and is to focused on their wallets and on doing business with Saudi Arabia and pretended not to see that Saudi Arabia was the main place for terrorists recruiting and financing.

Originally posted by MrJazz
The FACTS you mentioned...where di you get them from?
Bin Laden a CIA asset? Who gave you such precious information? If it's a book I'd love to read it.

Reference 1

More from below...
Bush didn't kill bin Laden because the Saudi is a CIA asset. Bin Laden was the "Pearl Harbor" the neocons have talked about now for years, well before Bush was elected (excuse me, appointed) to the presidency.

It's common knowledge that bin Laden was funded by the CIA to fight the Soviet occupation troops in Afghanistan. Andrew Evered Allen, a reclusive millionaire and CIA insider, admitted as much in court documents. He also admitted the CIA is attempting to overthrow the government of Myanmar, or Burma.
Overthrowing governments and killing dissidents is what the CIA does.

How the CIA created Osama bin Laden
BY NORM DIXON

“Throughout the world ... its agents, client states and satellites are on the defensive — on the moral defensive, the intellectual defensive, and the political and economic defensive. Freedom movements arise and assert themselves. They're doing so on almost every continent populated by man — in the hills of Afghanistan, in Angola, in Kampuchea, in Central America ... [They are] freedom fighters.”

Is this a call to jihad (holy war) taken from one of Islamic fundamentalist Osama bin Laden's notorious fatwas? Or perhaps a communique issued by the repressive Taliban regime in Kabul?

In fact, this glowing praise of the murderous exploits of today's supporters of arch-terrorist bin Laden and his Taliban collaborators, and their holy war against the “evil empire”, was issued by US President Ronald Reagan on March 8, 1985. The “evil empire” was the Soviet Union, as well as Third World movements fighting US-backed colonialism, apartheid and dictatorship.
Read all...

Now before you go into your spiel about steel melting and whatever. Let me remind you, it is not necessary for steel to melt in order to bend or fail. If you think it is, remember blacksmiths don't exactly melt the steel in order to form it into the shapes they desire.

No they clout it with a dirty great hammer.

If the steel on the damaged floor was damaged by heat ,explain why the
hugh steel uprights that are the core of the building ,and from the ground
floor up quite a few were not subject to any heat,seem to disappear.
A few thousand tons of steel do not just disintgrate after being heated by some residue. fuel .

What do you mean by "Huge steel uprights?"

do you mean the core section columns? They weren't that "huge." certainly not on the impact floors they weren't.

And what do you mean by "disappear?"

Define what you are asking a little bit better please. THanks.

i just want to ask two questions:

A) why did the terrorists fly half way across the USA only to turn around, do the whole trip again and crash into WTC? Surely they couldve make their job a lot easier.

B) what was US air defense doing for the whole two hours the planes were hijacked prior to the crashing? Surely not their jobs?

You people are going to believe that it was All A Huge Secret Plot Carried Out By The Bad Guys In The Governmentlot because you want to believe that it was All A Huge Secret Plot Carried Out By The Bad Guys In The Government.

Getting engineering or scientific explanation to the contrary, whether by lay magazines like Popular Mechanix and Scientific American, trade journals by the ASME, or even comments from people with engineering and physics background here on this forum is not going to work.

The only way you will realize that the publicly-held views are probably correct is if you no longer want to believe that it was All A Huge Secret Plot Carried Out By The Bad Guys In The Government.

But then if you did that, you would have to start accepting boring old stuff like evidence, partial differential equations, strength of materials, moment arm -- and giving up beliefs that you are some sort of special person who has insights that other people who were silly enough to waste their time going to college simply don't have.

I don't see that happening soon.

WTC as a belief that it was All A Huge Secret Plot Carried Out By The Bad Guys In The Government is more than a belief set withmost of you ...

...it's your religion, and I'm not in the mood for religious debate today.

Originally posted by Skibum

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
They fell too fast, as if each floor disapeared before the one above hit it. There is a huge amount of resistance at each floor. There was no resistance, it went woosh!!! Straight down because each floor exploded before the upper floors hit. Like dropping an object with nothing but the resistance of air.

Exactly how fast should they have fallen.

OK we will get into fact that we all know from science class so we can all understand how to set this time the Towers should have fallin down..

According to the law of Falling Bodies:
The total distance traveled at the end of any specific time in a total vacuum.

Which mean we set the problem up like so..

distance (D) = (32.16/2) x time in seconds squared.

Now going from this.. we find the answer to your question..

Now we know the towers were at least 1350 ft tall so we take this here and go like this..

1350 = (32.16/2) x time in seconds squared

It would come out to how fast the building falls which should be
9.1267 seconds it should have taken for both towers to fall..

But in reality it took The North Tower 8.1 seconds to fall, and South Tower came down in 10.4 seconds.


[edit on 27-2-2005 by ThichHeaded]

The total distance traveled at the end of any specific time in a total vacuum.


It would come out to how fast the building falls which should be
9.1267 seconds it should have taken for both towers to fall..

But in reality it took The North Tower 8.1 seconds to fall, and South Tower came down in 10.4 seconds.


by ThichHeaded]

You said it bubba in a total vacuum. Does nearly 80 stories of a building create a total vacuum? I think it creates just a tad more resistance that that!! Now it does represent a vacuum, if every floor just before the previous impacted it were to be pulverized via explosives then it would fall at the rate it did. Now think about momentum, lets take a bullet for instance. When fired through the air it takes a long time to slow down. Now fire it into a series of metal plates, or even a 76 story stack of cardboard does it keep going the same rate of speed as it does through the air, or a vacuum? No it will slow to a stop.

Its really very basic!

Now before I hear something like, but it was a lot more wieght than a bullet going mach 2. Think of a meteor, does it keep going the same rate of speed as it impacts the earth, no matter how big it is, or does it come to a stop rather quickly? I bet if you take something as big as the top 30% of the wtc and dropped it on, say that 76 story stack of cardboard it would probablly come to a stop, it would at LEAST fall slower than falling at the rate of freefall.

An idiot savant, whom is retarded in most aspects of life can recall amazing calculations, but cannot think in the abstract of even use common sense. Can you think outside the box? Or are you like the idiot savant spewing figures?

Originally posted by Broadsword20068
Just some advice, but never follow that "the gut is never wrong" philosophy. The gut is wrong plenty of times.

Maybe yours because you have lost your way. I and quite a few others are in tune with what they feel, and it is hardly never wrong. As a matter of fact I cant think of a time when I tap into that feeling, that I was wrong. It is when I try and outhink my gut feeling is when I am wrong. There is a great cosmic power that runs through everything. Search for it, find it, use it.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by Broadsword20068
Just some advice, but never follow that "the gut is never wrong" philosophy. The gut is wrong plenty of times.

Maybe yours because you have lost your way. I and quite a few others are in tune with what they feel, and it is hardly never wrong. As a matter of fact I cant think of a time when I tap into that feeling, that I was wrong. It is when I try and outhink my gut feeling is when I am wrong. There is a great cosmic power that runs through everything. Search for it, find it, use it.

that can go the other way too though...whenever i try to explain the 9/11 conspiracy theory or any other thing along the same lines....the people who i am argueing with give me the respones of "my gut tells me the governemtn wasn't involved, they woudn't do that"...so i agree, using your gut to guide your opinions isn't always the best thing you can do...facts are much easier to swallow

[edit on 27-2-2005 by Ungoliath]

An evil government can only reign when hailed by the people. It cannot sustain without our support.

"A blind eye and a deaf ear is survival tip nr. 1 for the nationalist"
-- Brian Zebeaune

thewebfairy.com...

Our world is quickly changing and we will all feel the bitter heat of fear, those who helped it along and those who warned of it.


Sincerely

Cade