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Since When?!

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posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:21 PM
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a reply to: solargeddon




On free speech I have said this a few times now, free speech is important and a right of everybody, however freedom of speech comes with responsibility, if you abuse it to denigrate demean, marginalise and spread hate and fear you are going to meet with strong opposition who will call for it to be silenced as it goes against a live and let live policy which is hard wired into all of us....everyone born has the right to life and explore their life experience within the confines of relative safety so long as it doesn't hurt themselves or others, extremist speech can not only affect he adults but twist the views of the young, leading to a perpetuation of more of the same down the line.

None of what you "feel" matters about the 1st amendment. It protects the very speech you are railing against.
You are free not to listen to it.
You are free to speak against it.
There is no "live and let live" amendment.
Socrates was accused of "twisting the views of the young".




posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:25 PM
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I wonder if all the people protecting Nazis/KKK would feel the same way about Muslims and their freedom of speech in the streets of America.

I doubt it, believe me..."we need to shut down those Islamic SOBs before they spread their religion of hate"

edit on 18-8-2017 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
I wonder if all the people protecting Nazis would feel the same way about Muslims and their freedom of speech in the streets of America.

I doubt it, believe me...



Yes! Now what? Is that really that unfathomable.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:27 PM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
You are free not to listen to it.
You are free to speak against it.

You are also free to act out against it, with the caveat that you may be reprimanded depending on what those acts are.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:28 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
I wonder if all the people protecting Nazis/KKK would feel the same way about Muslims and their freedom of speech in the streets of America.

I doubt it, believe me...


I cant answer for all "muslims", but the american muslims yes.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:28 PM
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a reply to: shooterbrody



That is just it, people are speaking against it, both sides are free to say what they like, though only one side will have a louder voice given that more agree with one than the other.

The issue at hand speaks to Nazis and the opposing number, both have the right to freedom of speech, though one side is going to win out and it isn't going to be the side with live how I think you should live policy now is it.

You can be a Nazi, say morally corrupt bull, doesn't mean the opposing number is going to stay quiet, Trump as made it perfectly opaque with his comments last weekend, his choice freedom of speech and all but that doesn't mean people aren't going to speak out against what he has and hasn't said, the same applies to ATS members freedom of speech is important, however it comes with responsibility, once the words have left the mouth they can be interpreted anyhow those hearing it wish.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:28 PM
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a reply to: olaru12

Yep, I sure would.

Just as I support your right to claim I wouldn't, no matter how "tactfully" you choose to frame it.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:28 PM
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originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: solargeddon




On free speech I have said this a few times now, free speech is important and a right of everybody, however freedom of speech comes with responsibility, if you abuse it to denigrate demean, marginalise and spread hate and fear you are going to meet with strong opposition who will call for it to be silenced as it goes against a live and let live policy which is hard wired into all of us....everyone born has the right to life and explore their life experience within the confines of relative safety so long as it doesn't hurt themselves or others, extremist speech can not only affect he adults but twist the views of the young, leading to a perpetuation of more of the same down the line.

None of what you "feel" matters about the 1st amendment. It protects the very speech you are railing against.
You are free not to listen to it.
You are free to speak against it.
There is no "live and let live" amendment.
Socrates was accused of "twisting the views of the young".


And no matter how you feel, the first amendment doesn't protect you from criticism.

Let's stop assuming that every person critical of white nationalism is condoning violence or changing the laws.

Do you think that every Not-Nazi is an anarchist with a baseball bat?



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:29 PM
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originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Perfectenemy
a reply to: Abysha

Hey look the side of peace and unity is telling others what to do. You know what get lost. You and all the others are just a bunch of hypocrites.



See what I mean? You view being critical of Nazism as a "side" opposing you.

That is the problem.


I don't give a #. You started a witch hunt that will get a lot of innocent people hurt or even killed.



I did?

Sorry 'bout the witch hunt I started, everybody!


Don't be a smart ass. Of course i meant your side with all the fearmongering of Nazi's taking over the U.S. even though they are and never were a real threat to begin with.


Never heard of Operation Paperclip have you?

Surprising since you are German and deem yourself to be one of the voices that knows most about them on ATS...


Long story short, the Nazis took over the US a long time ago...
What do you think the "deep state" is and why do you think they hate Trump, who welcomed Jewish people into his family and claimed that African Americans had nothing to lose with him...


You want the big picture, look up Operation Paperclip, and then you'll understand why Nazism is a dangerous ideology right this minute, not just 60 years ago.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:29 PM
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originally posted by: Abysha
Five years ago, if I wrote a thread about the evils of Nazism, I don't think it would have been met by anything other than "well, duh" and "you're preaching to the choir". It was a no-brainer. I could have said, without any doubt, that ATS was an anti-Nazi site. Both liberals and conservatives overwhelmingly despised Nazism.

The occasional disgruntled white nationalist would come along with a holocaust denial thread and they'd get chased away. Half the site would not start frothing at the mouth, talking about that member's freedom of speech (on a private site, lol) because... Nazi ideology isn't something we defend as a nation and wasn't something we defended on this site. We didn't have a ton of members suddenly identifying with Nazism like we do now. Now, when you write a thread about Nazis, members get offended! Why?!

If you think criticism of white nationalism is offensive to you, why can't you just admit the reason why? Why all the virtue signalling about the first amendment and censorship? Some of these people are even mad at Spotify for exercising their rights in choosing not to carry Nazi music. It's getting ridiculous. What are you really saying then?

And to those of you on the right who feel they need to sympathize with Nazis because they are traditionally on the right of the political spectrum, knock it off. You know better. You weren't Nazis five years ago so stop thinking you are now. Regular conservative politics is not the same as white nationalism any more than regular liberal politics is the same as communism. And to those of you on the left, also knock it off. Defending Nazis makes a person a Nazi apologist, not necessarily a Nazi themselves. Stop calling people Nazis unless they are literally espousing white nationalist ideologies.

So... can we just go back to hating Nazis? Together? Like the good ole' days?


Given I started a thread you referenced, please show me where I specifically defended or supported Nazi ideology. I know some of you aren't able to have higher orders of thought, but the issue has never been supporting nazi's or white nationalist so please stop with that red herring argument. The issue is freedom of speech.

Regardless if we abhor their ideology, they have a right to express themselves in the public square. Just as others have the right to counter protest. Saying someone has that right is not the same thing as supporting what they say.

Secondly, when you have two opposing groups protesting, violence of any kind is not acceptable. It doesn't matter who started it or whose ideology is better or just.

Trump or anyone stating both groups were responsible is in no way justifying any particular ideology.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:29 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
I wonder if all the people protecting Nazis/KKK would feel the same way about Muslims and their freedom of speech in the streets of America.

I doubt it, believe me...



I wonder when all the naziphobes will go after Islam.

Since it has a history rich in hatred,



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: Hazardous1408

originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Perfectenemy
a reply to: Abysha

Hey look the side of peace and unity is telling others what to do. You know what get lost. You and all the others are just a bunch of hypocrites.



See what I mean? You view being critical of Nazism as a "side" opposing you.

That is the problem.


I don't give a #. You started a witch hunt that will get a lot of innocent people hurt or even killed.



I did?

Sorry 'bout the witch hunt I started, everybody!


Don't be a smart ass. Of course i meant your side with all the fearmongering of Nazi's taking over the U.S. even though they are and never were a real threat to begin with.


Never heard of Operation Paperclip have you?

Surprising since you are German and deem yourself to be one of the voices that knows most about them on ATS...


Long story short, the Nazis took over the US a long time ago...
What do you think the "deep state" is and why do you think they hate Trump, who welcomed Jewish people into his family and claimed that African Americans had nothing to lose with him...


You want the big picture, look up Operation Paperclip, and then you'll understand why Nazism is a dangerous ideology right this minute, not just 60 years ago.


Of course i know about Operation Paperclip. I think the Deep State has no ideology. They are only interested in gaining money and power. They wanted Hillary the Leprechaun Clinton as president after all.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:34 PM
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originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: olaru12
I wonder if all the people protecting Nazis/KKK would feel the same way about Muslims and their freedom of speech in the streets of America.

I doubt it, believe me...



I wonder when all the naziphobes will go after Islam.

Since it has a history rich in hatred,




You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness? As quoted in Inside the Third Reich: Memoirs, by Albert Speer, New York: NY, Simon and Schuster (1970) p. 96


en.wikiquote.org...



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: Abysha

OK


I hate Nazis !!

I HATE nazis

i hate NAZIS


That includes the Left Wing Nazis too !!

Burn the whole thing until it goes away !!




posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: Abysha

Since when? When it started to become commonly acceptable to call people a Nazi or racist constantly without cause. I'd say it's been brewing for a few years. So now those terms have lost their meaning, which you will recall, many of us said would happen.

When you cry wolf often enough eventually nobody comes running when the real wolf emerges and you end up getting eaten.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: olaru12

"I wonder" and "i bet".....

AKA: im making this up just so i can post something



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:40 PM
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a reply to: solargeddon



That is just it, people are speaking against it, both sides are free to say what they like, though only one side will have a louder voice given that more agree with one than the other.

You are actually correct. The nazis do not have the msm behind them, so their voice is much quieter.
The volume of the voice has no bearing on the 1st.



The issue at hand speaks to Nazis and the opposing number, both have the right to freedom of speech, though one side is going to win out and it isn't going to be the side with live how I think you should live policy now is it.

No matter who wins the 1st protects speech.
Unless you know about a process to change the bill of rights I am unaware of.



You can be a Nazi, say morally corrupt bull, doesn't mean the opposing number is going to stay quiet, Trump as made it perfectly opaque with his comments last weekend, his choice freedom of speech and all but that doesn't mean people aren't going to speak out against what he has and hasn't said, the same applies to ATS members freedom of speech is important, however it comes with responsibility, once the words have left the mouth they can be interpreted anyhow those hearing it wish.

Those who speak out about trump have the same 1st rights as the others.
Those rights do not change no matter how you interpret what is said.
We do not ban speech here, no matter how heinous it is.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated


I don't know about in the US but over here when the EDL (English Defence League) decide to have a day trip to our city the opposition are mobilised to drown them out and boy do they drown them out.

The EDL made the choice to come and march, the opposing number responded because along with their march comes the shouting across the street at the Muslims and Africans, the foreign students, they come disturb the peace of everyone going about their day and they advertise prior to the event, giving the opposition the heads up.

They haven't come back for a while because it is an absolute washout for them.

So when Trump says it is both sides, one side was there first....the catalyst, the opposition was the response, if there were no catalyst there would be no response.

By Marching they are advertising come see our side of the story, hell they are actively recruiting and seeking to galvanise support.

Both sides have a choice, though those who ignite the flame maintain more choice than the kindle it burns (sorry I know I sound like a bad fortune cookie...feel free to rip me up)



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:43 PM
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originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

When i am mowing my yard and come across 2 piles of dog crap sitting next to each other, I don't make it a habit of deciding which pile is worse than the other. They are both dog crap.




That's some amazing dog poo. One pile managed a near-success at genocide while the other pile just likes to break things.



You mean the actual Nazi Party that ran Germany is still alive and funding stuff in the USA?

The people you are talking about are alive right now. They are assholes with an asshole opinion. They have not committed any genocide that I can find any articles (within the last 50 years) to support.

Like i said: its all the same. crap is crap, regardless of color. Regardless of who fresh and squishy it is. Its all still crap.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: Abysha

The definitions have been broadened over the past 5-10 years. You have to take that into account in this. Pre-Obama it was perfectly normal to criticize the POTUS... then during Obama critics were deflected by being accused of racism.







 
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