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Since When?!

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posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 12:56 PM
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originally posted by: Abysha

So... can we just go back to hating Nazis? Together? Like the good ole' days?



What no clapping emoji???

Well then here have this






I think you very politely and level headedly put my own feelings and thoughts on the matter into words. I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling this way.

-Alee




posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 12:57 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
If it makes you feel better, I dislike Nazi's and White Supremacists at a 9 scale and ANTIFA at a 7. Obama was a 6 for me. I hope that puts my dislike meter into perspective.


You know what? It kinda does, thank you.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 12:58 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: DBCowboy

That's really the most galling thing about it all.

Those of us that see a distinction between speech and actions, and then defend the right to make the speech, somehow get lumped in with "them" when it comes to their actions.

Those of us who advocate for not stripping one side of a set of rights while the other side gets to retain those rights get lumped in with "them" for whatever reason.

And it goes back and forth, from both sides.



Aaand the OP just referred to me as a Nazi sympathizer.




posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 12:58 PM
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a reply to: Abysha

A common quote that represents a cornerstone of US values:

"I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."

That is why.

I can't stand any kind of superiority, be it race, religion, gender....but I also really like that supremacy assholes feel free to speak their minds so I know who to ignore. It used to work that way, and the country seemed to live with a little less angst.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 12:58 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Abysha

You know what I hate?

I hate the fact that I am defending Nazi's free speech rights because people want to silence them.

I hate having to defend the necessity of confederate statues and flags and the racism they represent because people want to ban them.

I hate being called a god-damned Nazi because I defend free speech and against banning anything.


That's what I hate.


Ditto.

They are actually defending CENSORSHIP.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Abysha

You know what I hate?

I hate the fact that I am defending Nazi's free speech rights because people want to silence them.

I hate having to defend the necessity of confederate statues and flags and the racism they represent because people want to ban them.

I hate being called a god-damned Nazi because I defend free speech and against banning anything.


That's what I hate.


It's just that when "they" can't mentally deal with the conversation, they have no recourse except to call you a name, and today, the popular one is "Nazi". Just smile, pat them on the head, and move on. Stupidity like that isn't worth your time unless you are bored and just want to have a bit of fun making them look like the dumb asses they are.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: Abysha

If the silencing means violating their rights: the answer is NO.

ANTIFA - they are a bunch of thugs, who destroy property and generally act like idiots.....that's my opinion of them.


Gotta stop ya right there. This is my point. It's not Nazi vs Antifa. It's Nazi vs Not-Nazi and antifa just happens to be in the crowd, doing their anarchist things. They are hardly the storm troopers of he Nazi resistance, lol.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:01 PM
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originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: network dude
I lump ANTIFA right in there with the Nazis.



Really? You don't think Nazis are even a tad worse? Like with the whole following genocidal ideology and all? Not even a little?


When i am mowing my yard and come across 2 piles of dog crap sitting next to each other, I don't make it a habit of deciding which pile is worse than the other. They are both dog crap.

Same thing here.

I don't often atribute George Strait with deep thoughts, but his movie Pure Country had the best line relating to this concept:



Antifa might be that white speck...but its still chickenshiz, too.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:02 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: DBCowboy

That's really the most galling thing about it all.

Those of us that see a distinction between speech and actions, and then defend the right to make the speech, somehow get lumped in with "them" when it comes to their actions.

Those of us who advocate for not stripping one side of a set of rights while the other side gets to retain those rights get lumped in with "them" for whatever reason.

And it goes back and forth, from both sides.



Aaand the OP just referred to me as a Nazi sympathizer.



How?! I stated that you and I believe the same things. Then I explained why people might be accusing you of that.

Jesus, you know I don't think that of you.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: Abysha


I have defended the Nazis legal right to speak and assemble and I've also spoken out against illegally removing the statues. Yet I've not been accused of any of those things.


To be fair, I was point blank told that I was lumping all Trump supporters in with the white supremacists, that I supported the violence from the leftists, and that I was advocating for "exterminating" the Nazis.

All because I pointed out how disingenuous it is to say we shouldn't talk about acts of violence coming from the right, in a discussion about acts of violence at a protest. Granted, there was much backpedaling when I challenged that statement, but it was made.

Experiences may vary, I suppose.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:05 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

When i am mowing my yard and come across 2 piles of dog crap sitting next to each other, I don't make it a habit of deciding which pile is worse than the other. They are both dog crap.




That's some amazing dog poo. One pile managed a near-success at genocide while the other pile just likes to break things.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:07 PM
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originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: Abysha

If the silencing means violating their rights: the answer is NO.

ANTIFA - they are a bunch of thugs, who destroy property and generally act like idiots.....that's my opinion of them.


Gotta stop ya right there. This is my point. It's not Nazi vs Antifa. It's Nazi vs Not-Nazi and antifa just happens to be in the crowd, doing their anarchist things. They are hardly the storm troopers of he Nazi resistance, lol.


Nazi's are completely irrelevant these days. You do know what happened in a certain country that feared and prosecuted another minority? I see signs everywhere for the same thing in the U.S.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:10 PM
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originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: DBCowboy

That's really the most galling thing about it all.

Those of us that see a distinction between speech and actions, and then defend the right to make the speech, somehow get lumped in with "them" when it comes to their actions.

Those of us who advocate for not stripping one side of a set of rights while the other side gets to retain those rights get lumped in with "them" for whatever reason.

And it goes back and forth, from both sides.



Aaand the OP just referred to me as a Nazi sympathizer.



How?! I stated that you and I believe the same things. Then I explained why people might be accusing you of that.

Jesus, you know I don't think that of you.


Perhaps I read it wrong.

Apologies.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:10 PM
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originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: Abysha

If the silencing means violating their rights: the answer is NO.

ANTIFA - they are a bunch of thugs, who destroy property and generally act like idiots.....that's my opinion of them.


Gotta stop ya right there. This is my point. It's not Nazi vs Antifa. It's Nazi vs Not-Nazi and antifa just happens to be in the crowd, doing their anarchist things. They are hardly the storm troopers of he Nazi resistance, lol.


Nazi's are completely irrelevant these days. You do know what happened in a certain country that feared and prosecuted another minority? I see signs everywhere for the same thing in the U.S.



So you think we're trying to fight ovens with ovens?

I know you must be laughing when you are typing your posts because they are cracking me the hell up.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:12 PM
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For me the problem is Trump.

So many on this forum voted and respect Trump for good or for ill, therefore when Trump makes questionable statements over Charlottesville, the fan club get a little ansty, and want to protect their investment cos....Obarmacare repeal, jobs, immigration, terrorism.

The problem is whilst defending Trump and the right to free speech, you are aligning yourself with those who have failed to be condemned.

If Trump had done a decent job of condemning the extreme right last week both sides of the partisan divide would have rejoiced, he would have got majority feeling nailed and won a few points but he didn't, the folk on here leapt to the defence of Trumps (at best) indifference.

That is why folks on here are triggered because they don't see their allegiance to Trump rubs off on them regardless of their personal stance on issues such as Nazis, they are coloured by paintbox they are using, it is how it is.

On free speech I have said this a few times now, free speech is important and a right of everybody, however freedom of speech comes with responsibility, if you abuse it to denigrate demean, marginalise and spread hate and fear you are going to meet with strong opposition who will call for it to be silenced as it goes against a live and let live policy which is hard wired into all of us....everyone born has the right to life and explore their life experience within the confines of relative safety so long as it doesn't hurt themselves or others, extremist speech can not only affect he adults but twist the views of the young, leading to a perpetuation of more of the same down the line.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: Abysha


So you think we're trying to fight ovens with ovens?


Surely I'm not alone in thinking "I'd watch people use ovens to fight other people who are also using ovens" am I? No?



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:13 PM
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Abysha just highlighted something the complainers have missed.

ATS Now versus ATS Then is a good small scale parallel to society changing & evolving as per the people's wishes -- that whole mob rule thing they rant about. ATSers live it unconsciously while trying to denigrate it.
ATS used to have a pretty decent moral standard that has been traded for appeasement without limitation. That is to mean, capitulation to any & all, regardless of how far down ATS had to fall to accommodate.

It's certainly not apples and oranges, it's a small-scale example of society on here. We need the government to STFU about telling us what we can & can't say or do within reason. The 1st does not apply to citizen-to-citizen interactions. Thinking it does merely removes our checks & balances and leads to downfall. A society without at least self-policing IS a weak-willed society run by anarchy. Is that really what people want?



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:13 PM
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originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: Abysha

I'm curious, which members have identified with Nazism? I haven't seen a single person claim it or even condone anything they stand for.


The problem is that some of you on the right feel forced (I'm hoping it's forced) to defend an evil just because you don't like what is opposing that evil.

What sucks even more is that the "opposition" to white nationalism only looks like it's mostly antifa. In reality, the bulk of opposition is church groups, WW2 organizations, and the general smattering of not-Nazis.


This is not true. We are not defending their rights because of who is opposing them. The problem is you guys think we are defending Nazis, which it not the case. It doesn't matter what they believe or who they are, they deserve the same rights as everyone else. What they do with their rights is moot unless they are causing violence.

Again, it has NOTHING to do with Nazism, but you guys can't seem to grasp that and have no problem calling everyone Nazi sympathizers.

There isn't a single "Nazi sympathizer" on this site that I'm aware of.

And apparently we're covert racists too, lol.

And speaking of forcing a feeling based on the opposition.. hello Trump?



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:16 PM
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originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: eriktheawful
a reply to: Abysha

If the silencing means violating their rights: the answer is NO.

ANTIFA - they are a bunch of thugs, who destroy property and generally act like idiots.....that's my opinion of them.


Gotta stop ya right there. This is my point. It's not Nazi vs Antifa. It's Nazi vs Not-Nazi and antifa just happens to be in the crowd, doing their anarchist things. They are hardly the storm troopers of he Nazi resistance, lol.


Nazi's are completely irrelevant these days. You do know what happened in a certain country that feared and prosecuted another minority? I see signs everywhere for the same thing in the U.S.



So you think we're trying to fight ovens with ovens?

I know you must be laughing when you are typing your posts because they are cracking me the hell up.


It's the small things that over time develope into something much larger. Doxxing Nazi's and there sympathizer for instance is now perfectly acceptable. Ruining there lives just because they believe in a different ideology. What happens when people start to think that this is not nearly enough to punish them?



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: DBCowboy

That's really the most galling thing about it all.

Those of us that see a distinction between speech and actions, and then defend the right to make the speech, somehow get lumped in with "them" when it comes to their actions.

Those of us who advocate for not stripping one side of a set of rights while the other side gets to retain those rights get lumped in with "them" for whatever reason.

And it goes back and forth, from both sides.



Aaand the OP just referred to me as a Nazi sympathizer.



How?! I stated that you and I believe the same things. Then I explained why people might be accusing you of that.

Jesus, you know I don't think that of you.


Perhaps I read it wrong.

Apologies.


Commendable. I didn't read it the same way you did, but can see how it might have seemed that way. I'll be sure to leave a tip in the jar when I visit your cabbage stand later.



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