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Blow it up and own it

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posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

Anytime we start saying what an outside party *must* do for you, then it is an authoritarian thing. If the government must provide your clothing. Then where do you think that clothing comes from? It does not grow on special "government trees."

The clothing must still be produced by workers.

Even if you say the government must purchase the clothing at fair market price, the government must get the means to do so from somewhere, and since the government does nothing productive to earn its money, that means it must take by forced from others to buy.

Either it forces the workers to make the clothing or it steals the money. Either way, authoritarian force must be used to enable that positive liberty you have granted it.




posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 05:17 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Pretty sure Lincoln was against slavery...

On a sidenote, how much are they paying you exactly?



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian




You can't even bring yourself to insult a neo-Nazi.


Seriously WHY the hell should we.

And say the above after this.




The Left gives ZERO f's about your opinions of its credibility.


So your looking for confirmation bias when you give 'zero effs' about what they have to say to begin with.

Interesting.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 05:55 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: TexasTruth

You insult my masculinity and then proceed to screech hyperbole at me like a hysterical schoolgirl? Any dude that puts "Texas" in a username is transparently compensating for some character flaw or another, not to mention unimaginative.

No, ISIS isn't doing "exactly the same thing" at all. ISIS is destroying ancient, archaeologically significant world heritage sites. Not even remotely the same thing. I'm not even responding to the the next paragraph of melodramatic ranting.


When BLM had their protest and a small "mob" burnt part of the city down, they were wrote off as not really being a part of the group. Understandable. One kid ran over and tragically killed a girl, so now they are all murders? No! Hell, he hasn't even had his day in court yet. These groups may be stupid or misguided, but no different than the New Black Panther party.


I didn't say that they were all murderers? Some of them are quite comparable to the NBBP. Why the hell do you think I have a favorable view of the NBBP? F those racist nuts too? But what's that got to do with anything? Extremism correlates with far higher incidence of violent criminal behavior, clearly. As recent events make perfectly clear, today's torch wielding radical can be tomorrow's car driving terrorist. And if you think that some of these groups really aren't dangerous, then you might want to look a little harder. Don't be fooled by polo shirts and khaki pants. Sure, most of them will turn out to be less than lethal clowns but keep in mind that hundreds of these assholes who didn't run over anyone were still there with the anticipation of engaging in armed combat and thrilled by it.


The left has ZERO credibility while defending these Out of control mindless SJW punks.


The Left gives ZERO f's about your opinions of its credibility. You can't even bring yourself to insult a neo-Nazi. You basically said "sure, these kids are misguided but blah blah blah OUT OF CONTROL MINDLESS SJW PUNKS!"

You're either morally weak and a spineless political coward or sympathetic to their causes. You show more alarm at the removal of a statue that's at best, slightly historic, than the death of a person. You think you're on the right side of this?


The only difference between these "archeologically significant" monuments and the statues that are getting torn down is time... They all represent a historical time in the world. They both apparently offended one group or another, and that group felt that they needed to be torn down.

I guess I maybe don't necessarily disagree with you or anything, just wanted to point out the perceived logical fallacy.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 06:05 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

That would require that someone voluntarily identifies themselves as a member of the KKK. That doesn't mean that there aren't a significant amount of people who align w/ their values... In addition to this, there are plenty of groups that are not the KKK which have plenty of members.

This is like saying, well there are only 10000 Crips left in the country, so clearly gangs are not a problem. You're ignoring the Bloods, MS13 etc...



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 06:39 PM
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originally posted by: VoxVirtus
a reply to: ketsuko

That would require that someone voluntarily identifies themselves as a member of the KKK. That doesn't mean that there aren't a significant amount of people who align w/ their values... In addition to this, there are plenty of groups that are not the KKK which have plenty of members.


This is 100% true. And a lot of them are not racist supremacists. But isn't it easier to just identify them all Nazis ourselves and not have a discussion? I mean why wait.. if only they would have silenced Hitler before he took power amirite!




posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 07:05 PM
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originally posted by: Templeton

originally posted by: VoxVirtus
a reply to: ketsuko

That would require that someone voluntarily identifies themselves as a member of the KKK. That doesn't mean that there aren't a significant amount of people who align w/ their values... In addition to this, there are plenty of groups that are not the KKK which have plenty of members.


This is 100% true. And a lot of them are not racist supremacists. But isn't it easier to just identify them all Nazis ourselves and not have a discussion? I mean why wait.. if only they would have silenced Hitler before he took power amirite!



Unfortunately - Charlottesville was filled w/ this:

Charlottesville - Race and Terror

The problem is that it's always the idiots that speak the loudest. If there is a white person with grievances, fine, let's hear them and have a peaceful discussion. What I struggle to understand is why is it so hard to call a spade and spade here?

I don't see this as all that different than people getting mad at Muslims for not condemning extremism in their religion. I understand that they are extremist; Why is it so hard to condemn it though?
edit on 18-8-2017 by VoxVirtus because: afterthought



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 07:42 PM
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originally posted by: VoxVirtus

originally posted by: Templeton

originally posted by: VoxVirtus
a reply to: ketsuko

That would require that someone voluntarily identifies themselves as a member of the KKK. That doesn't mean that there aren't a significant amount of people who align w/ their values... In addition to this, there are plenty of groups that are not the KKK which have plenty of members.


This is 100% true. And a lot of them are not racist supremacists. But isn't it easier to just identify them all Nazis ourselves and not have a discussion? I mean why wait.. if only they would have silenced Hitler before he took power amirite!



Unfortunately - Charlottesville was filled w/ this:

Charlottesville - Race and Terror

The problem is that it's always the idiots that speak the loudest. If there is a white person with grievances, fine, let's hear them and have a peaceful discussion. What I struggle to understand is why is it so hard to call a spade and spade here?

I don't see this as all that different than people getting mad at Muslims for not condemning extremism in their religion. I understand that they are extremist; Why is it so hard to condemn it though?


Everyone condemns them. I think it would be foolish for good intentioned people to run with that crowd. That doesn't mean there weren't any. People are idiots.

That's not the issue tho is it. The issue seems to be we shouldn't be condemning the idiots on the left at the same time. Why is it so hard to do that?



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 07:48 PM
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a reply to: VoxVirtus

You clearly haven't been around here much. I don't think anyone has defended anything about the white supremacists (all few hundred of them, 200? Maybe?) who were at Charlotte except that they had the legal permits to hold their rally.

In the interest of free speech, we would prefer to see the law upheld at least that far. When you start to say, "Free speech for all ... well, except for this group over here no one likes ..." Then you don't really have or believe in true free speech anymore for anyone, even the ones you do like, because the next group that someone could decide should not be allowed to speak might be one you do care about.

And we know they did bad things, one of them drove through a crowd and killed, but we also know the counter protests were not all simple non-violent folk, either. Neither side there is innocent as the pure wind-driven snow.

And now there are people going on a pogrom against anything related to things they don't like on the strength of that in an attempt to whitewash (pun intended) history and scrub out everything about it they don't like and would prefer not learn. Can't wait until they start burning the books like the fascists they are.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 09:30 PM
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a reply to the anti

Where did the Anti person go?? Off to other web pages and other posts where the debates are easier, or retire to the echo chamber?
I'm all open and ready for dialogue, but I don't think that's what "they" want.
Bend the knee and we promise peace.

Good rant cowboy!
edit on 18-8-2017 by TexasTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 09:38 PM
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a reply to: TexasTruth





Thanks!



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 09:52 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: DBCowboy
But along with that, stop the damned lying about how you are for freedom and equality.


Wealth inequality is at all time highs. Every year the rich get richer and the median worker's wage gets driven deeper and deeper into a poverty wage. The cost of goods and services keep rising. Wages are stagnant compared to inflation. So please explain to me what freedom and equality you are talking about?

Money talks, everything else is BS.


When you depend on the government for everything from statues removed for your hurt feelings , healthcare, phone subsidy, EBT cards, etc. You will never know freedom. You are milking the government tit. You are now just subjects of the government. nothing more. You gave your freedom away, the American dream, away because you didnt want to work for it, you want it handed to you.

Everyone should be ashamed of the laziness of this country, the lack of initiative, and the sad sacks of Sh!t that keep doling it out to collect votes, so they can live in mansions and be the Ruling class.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 10:46 PM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: DBCowboy


It's statues in various states. It's talk of assassinating the president. It's statues of Washington, Lincoln it's the Jefferson Memorial, it's Mt. Rushmore.

So when I say book burning is next, it's not hyperbole any longer.


It's still hyperbole. Just because a random person says "hey, we should do that" in a Facebook comment or on cable news show doesn't mean the probability has really gone up at all. It's odd how some people will brush off tweets from the President of the United States of America and then go nuts over some off the cuff comment from a commentator who has zero political power.

I don't want to call the outrage "feigned" because I'm sure some people are legitimately angsty, so maybe I'll go with "opportunistic outrage." It's when a person lowers his triggering threshold to "absurd" because he actually wants to be triggered.


Show the world what you really are. Show the world that history scares you. Show the world that inanimate objects trigger you.


So inanimate objects aren't worth getting triggered over? Then why are there 20 threads, including your own rant, from hysterical conservatives, who seem to be scouring the Internet, looking to be triggered by any random "liberal" who suggests removing, defunding or destroying one?




Show the world how weak you really are. Show the world how authoritarian you really are.


Stop telling me what to do, you authoritarian! GRRRR! I'm filled with self-righteous indignation!

Do you know what is really authoritarian? When one group has all the political power and then forces a subjugated group to deal with them putting up hundreds of statues to their glorious leaders in every effing public space they can find to demonstrate their control.

How aren't these statues all icons of authoritarianism?


Because a very, VERY, small percentage of the population these statues were built to exert some sort of control over have given a second thought to their existence. As Charles Barkley said, focus on # that matters. You think the black males from Chicago or Oakland or Compton have ever given two #s over a Robert E. Lee statue in Virginia? # no they haven't. Worry about creating sustainable wealth in your community and developing and end to the cycle of poverty amongst the people these statues were seemingly made to offend.

All these lefty rallies are springboarded by a bunch of misguided white children who haven't experienced an impoverished day in their lives, but goddamit they sat in on a lecture (at their $40K/year University as ironic as that is) from someone that knew an impoverished person and boy are they outraged.

Give me a break. Toppling statues that are beacons of hate instead of tackling the systemic poverty in urban communities is not really a useful approach. I wish people would focus their emotion and energy into a viable solution instead of lashing out at something that won't realistically further their cause.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 11:12 PM
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Yep let them be the evil and show how bad the side of history they will become eventually.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 11:41 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

The left are using "racism" as a scapegoat to implant their beloved One World Socialist regime. This is why they are against sovereignty, and claim that "nationalism is evil and something only found in right-wing groups". Which of course is nothing but BS, because nationalism in itself is not bad. Not to mention that many left-wing regimes are/were also nationalist.



posted on Aug, 18 2017 @ 11:50 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

OOOK.. Feel better now after your latest rhetorical BS, and name calling the right for pointing out how your left-wing ideologues are all authoritarian?... BTW, a statue in itself is not authoritarian, talk about "opportunistic outrage", while at the same time ignoring the fact that the calls for destroying statues, and even getting rid of the U.S. flag, and the re-writing of the U.S. Constitution comes from large groups of left-wingers that you always seem to defend. i wonder why that is...

Statues are reminders of history. If historical statues can be destroyed because of the "cry-babies" in the left, what is to stop you/them from book burning anything that is not left-wing?

Authoritarianism is when a group wants to suppress other groups based on political ideology, on religion, etc. The left are the ones wanting to do this, yet you want to claim "people are just over-reacting"?...



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 12:05 AM
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I'll try to keep this simple so that everyone can understand.

This is the issue at hand. The white supremacy groups that WE HAVE CONDEMNED had a permit to be in Charlottesville. Had the counter-protesters that had no business being there other than to start a ruckus (which they were there for) had stayed away then there would have been no violence.

Yes, a single moron took the life of a girl and it's a goddamn shame and we all hope he gets the justice he deserves but it doesn't change the fact that the Antifa/BLM were there and armed for conflict. They came looking for trouble and got more than they expected and a girl had her life cut short for it.

I condemn each and every one of the Supremacy groups that were at that rally. Good people should have had the common sense to leave when they realized what the rally was. You lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas.

Can or will any of you SWJs condemn the acts of Antifa/BLM who showed up with weapons at a rally that they had no reason or right to attend? If not, can you at least admit that had the girl not been there, she would still be alive?

A conservative republican does not mean that they're a nazi or a nazi apologist and a liberal democrat does not mean they relate to Antifa/BLM ideology. This broad brush painting of entire groups needs to stop.

I may be a simple country boy but I know better than to attend a Black Panther party with a picket sign and a baseball bat. You wanna play stupid games..be prepared to win stupid prizes.


edit on 19-8-2017 by Anathros because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 12:13 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian




Do you know what is really authoritarian? When one group has all the political power and then forces a subjugated group to deal with them putting up hundreds of statues to their glorious leaders in every effing public space they can find to demonstrate their control.



The statues were put there as a reminder of how far we have come as a country...not as a show of Authoritarian supremacy. They are markers in time to remind us of how much worse it used to be, before great men (and women) decided to stop the bad systems, an rebuild anew with a system of Freedom and Prosperity for all who would choose it...including black people.



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 02:04 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Wow maybe Trump is the Last President.
Yikes!!!



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 08:05 AM
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Everything is temporary it all changes. Maybe too fast for some I would have liked to see all these changes go slower. But in the long run, monuments won't work in their current form due to space constraints, limitations on actual land we all have to share. It would be much better if we made pictures of current monuments and put it all on the internet and provide free internet access to anyone, if only a cheap smartphone with limited data usage so people who want to can look at the monuments in their own spaces.

Just a few years ago the Taliban destroyed important archeological remains, Buddhist monuments. I remember people saying what a loss it was, but it's the exact same thing just different ideologies and settings. But we don't have enough space (not to mention the motivation and resources) to put all these statues in museums but at least we have pictures for prosperity, up in the cloud or just a small bit in actual physical space like a hard drive. Unrealistic but I'd rather see expressions of pivotal changes in people's thinking for the better but using sculpted plants. Once everyone has forgotten about one it's time to change it only a picture left for prosperity to look back how it all formed to present day.



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