It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Was Rober E. Lee actually a great strategist???

page: 1
4
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 09:58 PM
link   
I'm a history buff and mainly military history...and i would really like to avoid al the politics surrounding the civil war and focus on the military history side of things..


Well I have always wondered why Lee is considered a great strategic mind after the disaster that was Gettysburg..

Gettysburg has to be like a top five worst military decisions in history..

Lee had positioned himself in a position where he had 2 options...

1) turn and take a nearly undefended Washington DC (the enemy capital) as the union forces had been pushed back to where the confederate army was between them and Washington..

2) charge a well DEFENDED fortification UP HILL against a force with superior NUMBERS..

Which only breaks basically EVERY SINGLE long standing rule in any militaries playbook..


Logistically he gets a lot of coudos I guess..

But what military success does he have that would even begin to touch Gettysburg????

It is even recorded history that he had Longstreet in his ear telling him to take washington.. after taking the capital if you are able to open negotiations and then there is no telling what you might pull off???


So I'm just not seeing that he was some amazing strategist...

I kinda wonder if it wasn't an issue where character increases the achievements..

He was known for being very "honorable" and obviously seemed to always take responsibility for the situation ..

His best known quote is probably "it's all my fault boys , it's all my fault.."

And it was... all his fault, but he took it..every bit of the blame they would let him.


I read a quote a few days ago where he didn't go to his own statues dedication claiming the war shouldn't be celebrated..the country needed to heal..


I wonder if accountability wasn't his true contribution to history and his legacy.... I mean he didn't ever "pay" for rebelling, but he from my understanding he took all the social and political blame.


Thoughts???









The





edit on 17-8-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 10:02 PM
link   
He may have been bought off.

Everybody has their price.

It happens.




posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 10:11 PM
link   

INDUSTRIAL AGE AND EARLY MODERN ERA
(alphabetical)

David Farragut: Farragut, the U.S. Navy’s first admiral, captured New Orleans (1862) and Mobile (1864) in decisive naval victories that emphasized the strategic importance of seapower in the Civil War.

Nathan Bedford Forrest: Perhaps the greatest natural military genius of all the Civil War commanders, Forrest (1821-77) combined daring leadership with an uncanny ability to match winning tactics to any military situation. (When surrounded, he advised, “Attack ‘em both ways!”)

Ulysses S. Grant: Western victories, especially Vicksburg (1863), made Grant Lincoln’s choice as general in chief. His tenacious 1864 Virginia Campaign led to the final defeat of Robert E. Lee’s army.

Thomas J. “Stonewall” Jackson: Stonewall Jackson was Lee’s most brilliant subordinate. His premature death from friendly fire after his stunning victory at Chancellorsville (1863) was the Confederacy’s greatest loss.

Robert E. Lee: Lee is an American military icon. Until his defeat at Gettysburg (1863), his operational brilliance gave the Confederacy its greatest chance for Civil War victory.

Helmuth von Moltke: As chief of the General Staff (1857-88), Moltke was the principal engineer of Prussia’s victories over Denmark (1864), Austria (1866) and France (1870) – triumphs that led to Prussia’s leadership of the new German Empire.

William T. Sherman: Often cited as one of history’s first “modern” generals, Sherman inflicted “total war” on the South in his Atlanta Campaign (1864) and subsequent March to the Sea.

Heihachiro Togo: Japanese hero Admiral Togo destroyed the Russian Baltic fleet in the Battle of Tsushima (1905), one of history’s most decisive naval encounters.


www.historynet.com...

You will notice that there are 6 Civil War names on this list from both sides. One of the most interesting things about the Civil War is the sheer amount of great leaders who fought in it who are still recognized for their tactical abilities to this day, north or south.

All of them graduated from West Point which should underscore the exceptional nature of the military education provided there around that time and the quality of the men it taught and produced when it came to military ability.

This is also likely one of the reasons why everyone went home after the war. Most of the men who were fighting one another, at least at a leadership level went to school together. Imagine fighting a life or death struggle against your old college chums whom you had known and known well and in the cases of the Mexican American War vets, had even fought alongside and bled with.
edit on 17-8-2017 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 10:31 PM
link   
Didn't matter how good he was.

He neither had the money,weapons or man power the north did.

Logistics defeated the south.



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 10:31 PM
link   
Robert E. Lee was actually anti-slavery. He fought for the Confederacy because he was a Virginian. States rights had an entirely different meaning back then. The term "State" was interchangeable with "Nation State". Independent nations with a common Constitution.

They no longer teach that in schools, of course...



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 10:32 PM
link   
a reply to: madmac5150

Well by anti slavery he said it was "evil."
To paraphrase him in full, he called slavery a "necessary evil."

Revisionist history tends to leave out the uncomfortable semantics..



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 10:33 PM
link   
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Lee should've listened to Longstreet.



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 10:36 PM
link   
a reply to: IAMTAT

No matter how good you are, you will make your mistakes sooner or later.



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 10:41 PM
link   
"The Art of War" Sun Tzu..

Taught still today.
www.amazon.com...=pd_lpo_sbs_14_img_1/137-2112458-5122123?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=B5KZESTR28QV0FACVQ0D



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 10:43 PM
link   
I am a native West Virginian. West Virginia was separated from Virginia in 1863 because my ancestors were anti-slavery... With damned good cause. My ancestors, the Scots-Irish, were brought here by the British as indentured servants; a polite term for slavery. In the 18th century, African slaves were worth more than the Scots-Irish. Of course, my ancestors were drinkers...

When can we let the sin's of our fathers rest?

For a modern society, we certainly live in the past.

"Violence is a disease... you don't cure a disease, by spreading it."
edit on 17-8-2017 by madmac5150 because: Too many commas...



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 10:44 PM
link   
a reply to: madmac5150

Weston!



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 10:49 PM
link   
Wheeling/Moundsville here. With stops in Charleston, and New Martinsville.

I even helped burn a couch once in Morgantown


It is funny, when you think about it. I live very close to Canada. (We all watch "The Red Green Show" up here.) When I speak to Canadians, if I ask where they are from, they say "Canada". No matter where I have been overseas (Europe, Asia, Middle East), if asked where I am from, I always answered "West Virginia".

I live in Idaho, but I will always be a West Virginian.

Some can say that the States are just "geographical divisions" of the United States... they aren't. They are our nationalities... our homes... our history and our heritage. THAT is what truly delineates our Constitutional Republic, from any other nation in modern history.

Robert E. Lee understood that. He was a Virginian, and fought as a Virginian.


edit on 17-8-2017 by madmac5150 because: Our mascot carries a musket... go Mountaineers


edit on 17-8-2017 by madmac5150 because: Clarity

edit on 17-8-2017 by madmac5150 because: How the hell did I end up in Idaho?



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 11:27 PM
link   

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Lee should've listened to Longstreet.


This can't be stressed enough. I've read a whole book on Longstreet; every time Lee made a stupid decision, Longstreet had a hissing fit and practically phoned it in with his orders when Lee went ahead and made him do it.

I think we should count our 50 lucky stars that Longstreet didn't have total control.



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 11:35 PM
link   
The reason he did so well in the first few years of the war was because the Union generals were very reluctant. The war could have been ended within a year if there had been competent Union generals. Also, his favored tactician was Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson. Lee would strategically place the troops while other generals provided the tactical decisions. Jackson's corp would always show up at the last minute were troops were needed, which resulted in a Confederate victory.

Jackson had died before the Battle of Gettysburg, which was very detrimental for Lee. Jackson's absence caused a change in tactical maneuvers that resulted in the losing of battles.
edit on 17-8-2017 by eManym because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 11:38 PM
link   
a reply to: madmac5150

The art of Football couch burnings.. what a Pitt WVU rivalry.
Jackson's Mill here.

So Cal, Nevada to Pittsburgh here.
Best learning I have. That and college.



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 11:39 PM
link   

originally posted by: madmac5150
Robert E. Lee was actually anti-slavery. He fought for the Confederacy because he was a Virginian. States rights had an entirely different meaning back then. The term "State" was interchangeable with "Nation State". Independent nations with a common Constitution.

They no longer teach that in schools, of course...


In that case, nobody wants to melt-down his statues...right?



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 11:41 PM
link   
a reply to: carewemust

Well he..
N/M.. he lost his arm.
He was southern.

However ...
edit on 17-8-2017 by Bigburgh because: (no reason given)


Perhaps VMI is a start..lots of them went there.🙄
edit on 17-8-2017 by Bigburgh because: (no reason given)


3rd.. together even brothers.
edit on 17-8-2017 by Bigburgh because: Because I love Cheesy Tocos


4th..
Brother against brother. Dad on son. Son on dad.



edit on 17-8-2017 by Bigburgh because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 11:49 PM
link   

originally posted by: Bigburgh
a reply to: madmac5150

The art of Football couch burnings.. what a Pitt WVU rivalry.
Jackson's Mill here.

So Cal, Nevada to Pittsburgh here.
Best learning I have. That and college.


I burned mine in the 90s... Va. Tech. I miss that rivalry; so glad we open against them this year


(Anytime I hear "Sweet Caroline"... Brad Paisley knocked that out of the park on ESPN's College Game Day... )



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 11:50 PM
link   
Lee had to use a risky strategy. If he had won that battle then the entire war would have changed. If he didn't then the result would still be a defeat for the south, it would have gone on longer causing more death and destruction. The Union had them out manned and out gunned they were completely defeated by logistics. Northern factories were turning out new arms at an alarming rate and immigrants were being conscripted as soon as they got off the boats.

Lee didn't want the war to drag on. He wanted reconciliation.


edit on 17-8-2017 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 11:55 PM
link   
By all accounts, William Tecumseh Sherman was a pacifist at the outset of hostilities. He finished the conflict as a war criminal; decorated and venerated. We later named a tank after the man... The winning side writes the history.

The only thing Lee got was an orange muscle car on a crappy television show.
edit on 17-8-2017 by madmac5150 because: Book em flash



new topics

top topics



 
4
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join