Older black man's unexpected view of the South

originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: liveandlearn
Everyone is not the same. Some are greatful and proud of their heritage.

I am from the south and to raise the hatred you have to go to the large cities or college towns...at least here in Texas. In all honesty seems to me most of the south has intergrated better than places like New York and Cali.

This short

video of an older black man carrying the Confederate flag is well, I don't know. I will let you decide. At the very least it says he has a mind of his own and from my perspective is doing his best to bridge the gap.

At the very least it says he has a mind of his own and from my perspective is doing his best to bridge the gap.

No it says he's out of his mind

Its not a question of heritage--I hope southerners are proud of their heritage when it is exclusive of slavery holding and oppression...and there are things to be proud of BUT NOT THAT.
Not symbols of oppression


Just like Black people will never build statues to criminals just because their a part of our culture.


White people shouldn't build monuments to the evil criminals in their culture and history--and those confederates were criminals and traitors

So black people will never build statues to criminals just because they are a part of their culture? That is what you are claiming huh?

Ok how about Malcolm X born Malcolm Little? He is part of a statue built by the Kaiser Permanente and the CEO of that consortium just so happens to be - you guessed - it Bernard Tyson a black man but lets not forget there are other people who contributed.

From Wiki

After a short time in Flint, Michigan, he moved to New York City's Harlem neighborhood in 1943, where he engaged in drug dealing, gambling, racketeering, robbery, and pimping.[19] According to recent biographies, he also occasionally had sex with other men, usually for money.[20][21] His daughter, Ilyasah Shabazz, and Ta-Nehisi Coates questioned the accuracy of these accounts.[22][23] Malcolm X was referred to as "Detroit Red" because of the reddish hair he inherited from his Scots maternal grandfather.[24][25]

And let's not forget the stint in prison where he joined the NOI. All these things shown in wiki plus being in prison add up to being a criminal. Statue was erected by a consortium whose CEO is a black man. So I differ with what you said there.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

I haven't experienced the whole of the South, but I have lived in Louisiana and Western North Carolina. The only words I have to describe those areas are 'cultural voidance'. Western NC is in a cultural power struggle between the local Baptists (right-wing), the emigrating Yankees (left-wing), and the neo-hippies, who are basically a bunch of kids in their teens and 20's, in the midst of an identity crisis. I came to North Carolina with a sense of optimism, and I've learned that it's a land of wasted potential.

The cultures don't mix. They clash, and none of them are oriented to the Bill of Rights. The right wants a religious state, the left wants a socialist state.

As a Hispanic, the only racists I have encountered were a few cops. At least that much progress has been made.

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
Thousands of black people actually served in the Confederate army. And they did it willingly.

Yeah, and the ones that survived and their descendants were subjugated to bottom class 'citizenship' and treated less than human under Jim Crow laws in the south that they fought for. Seems like a raw deal to me, but that's for another thread.

originally posted by: wanderingconfusion
And let's not forget the stint in prison where he joined the NOI. All these things shown in wiki plus being in prison add up to being a criminal.

He was reformed on several occasions, after joining the Nation of Islam, and even after his views started to differ with those of the Nation of Islam and were no longer them.

A statue of Malcolm X wasn't erected because he was a criminal, it was because of the progress he made in the Civil Rights movement before it was cut short by his murder.

a reply to: liveandlearn

I think you're generalizing "big cities". I could easily do the same for small towns. I was born and raised in Miami. There is very little political correctness in Miami (out side of the professional arena). The largest part of the population is Cuban which tends to be very conservative. Its a city full of loud, blunt, and outspoken people. The city is chaotic. The traffic has people in a constant state of irritation. There is no time for fake smiles and "bless your heart". You learn to either keep to yourself, or deal with the trouble you start.

The small town I currently live in is a white washed Baptist playground. People are two-faced, hypertensive, diabetic, and small minded I my area. They'll shake your hand during the 15 minutes of church fellowship on Sunday morning, and talk crap behind your back the rest of the week. The gossip only stops long enough to shovel biscuits and gravy in their mouths.

That is just my local area, but I don't assumed that every small town in the South fits that description. Carencro, LA isn't like that at all, and its even smaller than the town I presently live in.

a reply to: liveandlearn

And the other 50 million black people you are ignoring have the complete opposite subjective experience. But all those people you ignore because what they are saying doesn't fall in line with your prejudice and bigotry. And if you did genuinely listen to them you might see their point of view and feel compelled to change yours!

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: liveandlearn

And the other 50 million black people you are ignoring have the complete opposite subjective experience. But all those people you ignore because what they are saying doesn't fall in line with your prejudice and bigotry. And if you did genuinely listen to them you might see their point of view and feel compelled to change yours!

As a 12 year old child in the late 50's,I asked my southern grandmother why people didn't want us to go to school with black people. She said "because we are better than them". I said why, they are just people like us. I have never fallen away for that belief so do not align me with prejudice and bigotry. I do not experience this where i live

Next month I will going to a birthday celebration for my 48 year old daughter's best friend. He is a black man. They have been friend for over 30 years and his is, for many of us, a member of the family. He is at all family get together's and we genuinely love him.

Maybe you need to get over over yourself as do many others.

originally posted by: majesticgent

originally posted by: wanderingconfusion
And let's not forget the stint in prison where he joined the NOI. All these things shown in wiki plus being in prison add up to being a criminal.

He was reformed on several occasions, after joining the Nation of Islam, and even after his views started to differ with those of the Nation of Islam and were no longer them.

A statue of Malcolm X wasn't erected because he was a criminal, it was because of the progress he made in the Civil Rights movement before it was cut short by his murder.

Somehow I knew this was going to be someone's response. He was a known racist who hated white people because he believed that the Black Legion killed his father in a streetcar accident.

If he can be reformed from his racial hate why can't others who are being singled out by the left as racist? My gawd either way I am sick of all the hate and the lopsided hypocritical views being put into action/verbal spewing.

I noticed that black people in the south, in general, are better adjusted than white people a lot of the time.

..Better attitudes, think through things and can hold a conversation if you can even understand what they are saying sometimes. But if you want to hear what they say, you will.

I also noticed that some black people ain't too bright, same as white people.

Few around this country are acting particularly bright these days, noticed that too.

Unplug.

Nope nvm.

I wrote so many sarcastic, obtuse posts that I erased after second, third and fourth thoughts.

The ones for the person crowing about their black friend (once removed) and the OP about the trauma victim suffering from Stockholm Syndrome were the best.

Darned self editing... but really, making fun of generally well meaning but blind- to- themselves racists just isn't fun anymore.

a reply to: Baddogma

It Is Getting Really Old.

originally posted by: majesticgent

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
Thousands of black people actually served in the Confederate army. And they did it willingly.

Yeah, and the ones that survived and their descendants were subjugated to bottom class 'citizenship' and treated less than human under Jim Crow laws in the south that they fought for. Seems like a raw deal to me, but that's for another thread.

Yeah, that is 100 percent a legacy of the Democrats.

originally posted by: Cancerwarrior
Yeah, that is 100 percent a legacy of the Democrats.

There's no denying that. That's 100% factual. On top of that, the Democrats were punishing the south for the Civil War, but it's not so black and white (no pun intended.) See there was this little political party known as the Dixiecrats

Although the Dixiecrats immediately dissolved after the 1948 election, their impact lasted much longer. Many white voters who initially cast Dixiecrat ballots gravitated back toward the Democratic Party only grudgingly, and they remained nominal Democrats at best. Ultimately, the Dixiecrat movement paved the way for the rise of the modern Republican Party in the South.

(emphasis added by me)
Source

The Democratic party of today is not wholly what is was back then. There was a division when their leader, Truman, decided to do the following:

The Dixiecrats were members of the States' Rights Democratic Party, which splintered from the Democratic Party in 1948. South Carolina governor Strom Thurmond speaks at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia in July 1948. Thurmond would head the Dixiecrat ticket opposing the Democrats shortly after the convention ended.

The faction consisted of malcontented southern delegates to the Democratic Party who protested the insertion of a civil rights plank in the party platform and U.S. president Harry S. Truman's advocacy of that plank. Before the convention southern delegates were dismayed by Truman's 1948 executive order to desegregate the armed forces. With that backdrop many southern delegates were already concerned as they headed to the 1948 Democratic convention.

Source

This fringe element still exists today in the Republican party. The most extreme descendants of the Dixiecrat's beliefs are called the "Alt-Right." I would even say the Tea Party Republicans were inspired by what the Dixiecrats did to the Democrats back then.

All of that brings me back to my point. Regardless of the politics at the time, blacks got a really raw deal for fighting for both the Union and Confederacy. It's just the latter got an even worse deal.

a reply to: majesticgent

I had forgotten about the Dixiecrats, thank you for the refresher.

Regardless of the politics at the time, blacks got a really raw deal for fighting for both the Union and Confederacy. It's just the latter got an even worse deal.

Very true. I would take it a step further though. Black or white, the entire Southern populace suffered for several years at the wars end. It was a semi regular occurrence for veterans of Confederate armies to be caught and whipped, for "losing the war" Even up until the mid 1880's. Union occupation forces commited such a great number of crimes against the Southern populace (both black and white) that if they happened today would be considered among the most heinous of war crimes.

The Native Americans got the shaft pretty hard as well. Many of them fought in Confederate armies hoping desperately to get better land deals and such than they had ever gotten from the U.S. government. None of that ever materialized for them.

originally posted by: seeker1963
a reply to: Willtell


You are truly ignorant for saying this black man is out of his mind. Who TF are you to speak for him white man??

Your the ignorant one who doesn't know what race I am...

Ignorance doesn't have a race, you should know

a reply to: Willtell

You must be from the North. Having lived 30 years in MA and 8 in SC I can tell you that you are truly clueless about the actual facts. I was too growing up eating the Northern propaganda.

originally posted by: eManym

Thousands of black people actually served in the Confederate army.

There were several thousand blacks that served as combat troops in the Confederate army and over a 100 thousand in support roles for the Confederate army.

The CSA refused to authorize the training for combat positions and arming of negros serving in the Confederate military until the last couple of months of the war. I.E. March-April 1865. They were until that time only allowed to perform manual labor and for nearly zero pay with the promise of emancipation if they survived and were still treated like chattel. The Union had negro combat units by 1862

For some time the Union army barred black enlistment.

And yet they were paid, fed, clothed and housed like white people unlike the blacks serving the CSA and were performing combat roles by 1862 when there is zero evidence of blacks ever serving in combat capacity for the CSA period the last time I checked.

Georgia's Governor Joseph E. Brown noted that "the country and the army are mainly dependent upon slave labor for support." CITATION[26] Journal of the Senate at an Extra Session of the General Assembly of the State of Georgia, Convened under the Proclamation of the Governor, March 25th, 1863, p. 6.

The closest blacks got to the front lines in the CSA was as man servants to their masters who were servIng. They sure as hell weren't being armed though!

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

But you liberals are ok with bringing up slavery,which was at the same time,can't pick and choose history,your point is pointless,many blacks fought for the Confederates,did so willingly and were proud,they don't need some libtard opinion,I lived in So Calif all my life,people here communicate with one another,I have no idea where you are from but is sounds crappy,some people had pride,some have no idea of what it is comprised of

a reply to: Willtell

So your saying that if people in England wanted to remove the statue of William Wallace or Robert the Bruce or demolish Wallace monument in Stirling we should allow them to remove it because William Wallace and Robert the Bruce fought the English and was as you say a criminal and a traitor , we should just allow them to tear it down. Even though it represents our own Scottish History ?
(not that any English person would , but it portrays the point exactly)
If the North here (Scotland) can live in relative peace with the South here (England) without demolishing or vandalising monuments why cant Americans get over the past ?

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter and we cant let those who scream injustice be the arbiters of what is right and wrong because it suits their world view.