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I was in Charlottesville. Trump was wrong about violence on the left

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posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 03:47 PM
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a reply to: Kryties


I don't know about what this guy saw, all I can tell you is what I saw on the news. They had it on live; for quite a while (Hours). I saw a bunch of mostly men walking on the street. Some reporter interviewed a couple of them while they were walking, and asked them where they were going. Neither of the interviewees new where they were going, they just followed the group. In the hour or so that I watched, the only violence I saw was from the opposition following them, throwing sticks, and harassing them. I remember thinking to myself, "why these guys weren't fighting back". In my opinion, these white guys had a right to be there. They have a right to free speech. "What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander".

Before one of you liberals start with your hate, I just want to say that I'm Hispanic, not white. I just believe that everyone has a right to voice their opinions whether you like it or not.




posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: stelth2

The author of the article was actually there and saw everything go down. What you see on the news is merely snippets.



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 03:52 PM
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originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler



So you are equally outraged he said there were fine people on the other side. I mean, if he was just talking about the violent people on both sides, surely there were no good people on the left either.


Depends on the context in which they chose to get violent. If it was in defense, they could be a fine person. If it was just to be violent, they are not.

No WS/Neo-Nazi is a fine person.


Isn't the right to defend one's self supposedly a highly held belief amongst many Americans?


I think it's highly regarded by most people in general.


Oh absolutely, my own country included. I am just making the point that the same people who shout the loudest about owning weapons for personal safety and defence seem to be the same people trying really hard to paint the counter-protesters as the instigators of violence. I just found that interesting to note.



What we should be saying, as reasonable adults, is that there is blame to be had on both sides of this situation. Period. End of story.

But we can't do that. Partisan hacks will keep using this to push their narratives and bicker back and forth like a bunch of children. One side is saying the Right are Nazi defenders and the other side is saying the Left are their own brand of Nazis.

Then there are people like me that just want to say all of you are fricken nuts! (Not you personally)


Yes!!!!! This is what I am saying.

This is what people went insane over Trump saying.

As we discussed on another thread, when we are discussing the people with power; the media, corporate leaders, politicians, celebrities, etc.,

Almost every single one of these people are absolutely freaking out at people for saying both sides are to blame.

Any dissent from that opinion makes you a pariah, automatically a nazi defender.

This is Orwellian, and yet even reasonable people on here are towing that line.


edit on 17-8-2017 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 03:55 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler



So you are equally outraged he said there were fine people on the other side. I mean, if he was just talking about the violent people on both sides, surely there were no good people on the left either.


Depends on the context in which they chose to get violent. If it was in defense, they could be a fine person. If it was just to be violent, they are not.

No WS/Neo-Nazi is a fine person.


Isn't the right to defend one's self supposedly a highly held belief amongst many Americans?


I think it's highly regarded by most people in general.


Oh absolutely, my own country included. I am just making the point that the same people who shout the loudest about owning weapons for personal safety and defence seem to be the same people trying really hard to paint the counter-protesters as the instigators of violence. I just found that interesting to note.



What we should be saying, as reasonable adults, is that there is blame to be had on both sides of this situation. Period. End of story.

But we can't do that. Partisan hacks will keep using this to push their narratives and bicker back and forth like a bunch of children. One side is saying the Right are Nazi defenders and the other side is saying the Left are their own brand of Nazis.

Then there are people like me that just want to say all of you are fricken nuts! (Not you personally)


Yes!!!!! This is what I am saying.

This is what people went insane over Trump saying.



Actually, Trump said a few other things also that is actually the crux of what many are upset about. Not the "both sides" thing only.

All I know is that David Duke and that Stormfront fellow have been extolling the virtues of Trump and thanking him for giving them legitimacy after what Trump said. That should give anyone pause.....


edit on 17/8/2017 by Kryties because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:10 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

As always I highly respect you even when we disagree, and I appreciate your comments on the video.

Let me clarify my position here.

I hate white supremacists. I have literally been in fights with them. All racial supremacists disgust me more than almost any other people on earth.

I fully acknowledge that the leaders of this rally, and many if not most of the attendees fall into this category.

My main concerns are threefold.

1. For the victims on all sides of the violence and their loved ones. Especially the poor girl that was killed. And for all of those that wrongfully engaged in violence to be arrested and charged.

2. To prevent the extremists on all sides from committing more violence like this.

3. To help achieve two, to fight back against the Orwellian environment where only one side can be condemned.

The argument you and I are having is rather all of the people on the right were bad, thereby making Trumps comment offensive.

I don't believe that is the case. My post history will show in other disgusting groups, I have never called every attendee evil.

I don't believe that is the case here.

But please understand I am not defending racist, or saying you are a bad person for your opinion.

I just feel that just like the lead up to the Iraq war, the "elites" will shame any dissenting opinion to control the narrative, and I reject that and think it will lead to a huge increase in violence from both sides.

This video I believe shows that there was violence on both sides, therefore Trumps comment (at least that part, which is what most people took offense to) is true.

Of course its only two skirmishes, but it shows things are not a black and white as some would have us believe.

(oh and I don't know that this guy was a leftists, it was just aa label I used because it was a long post and didn't want to keep typing counter protestor, that man could very well be a tea party member for all I know)



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler



So you are equally outraged he said there were fine people on the other side. I mean, if he was just talking about the violent people on both sides, surely there were no good people on the left either.


Depends on the context in which they chose to get violent. If it was in defense, they could be a fine person. If it was just to be violent, they are not.

No WS/Neo-Nazi is a fine person.


Isn't the right to defend one's self supposedly a highly held belief amongst many Americans?


I think it's highly regarded by most people in general.


Oh absolutely, my own country included. I am just making the point that the same people who shout the loudest about owning weapons for personal safety and defence seem to be the same people trying really hard to paint the counter-protesters as the instigators of violence. I just found that interesting to note.



What we should be saying, as reasonable adults, is that there is blame to be had on both sides of this situation. Period. End of story.

But we can't do that. Partisan hacks will keep using this to push their narratives and bicker back and forth like a bunch of children. One side is saying the Right are Nazi defenders and the other side is saying the Left are their own brand of Nazis.

Then there are people like me that just want to say all of you are fricken nuts! (Not you personally)


Yes!!!!! This is what I am saying.

This is what people went insane over Trump saying.



Actually, Trump said a few other things also that is actually the crux of what many are upset about. Not the "both sides" thing only.

All I know is that David Duke and that Stormfront fellow have been extolling the virtues of Trump and thanking him for giving them legitimacy after what Trump said. That should give anyone pause.....



Extremists of all shapes praised Obama, Hillary, etc.

By no means does that mean I think those people held the same beliefs as those that praised them.

If I was a racist scum bag, and the whole world came out and said I was evil and the other side was good, and someone came out and told the truth, that the other side was not good, I guess I would like that comment too.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't speak honestly because we are afraid a racist may like what we are saying.

I am sure antifa likes what all of the MSM people are saying, does that mean we should reject them too?



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: stelth2
a reply to: Kryties


I don't know about what this guy saw, all I can tell you is what I saw on the news. They had it on live; for quite a while (Hours). I saw a bunch of mostly men walking on the street. Some reporter interviewed a couple of them while they were walking, and asked them where they were going. Neither of the interviewees new where they were going, they just followed the group. In the hour or so that I watched, the only violence I saw was from the opposition following them, throwing sticks, and harassing them. I remember thinking to myself, "why these guys weren't fighting back". In my opinion, these white guys had a right to be there. They have a right to free speech. "What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander".

Before one of you liberals start with your hate, I just want to say that I'm Hispanic, not white. I just believe that everyone has a right to voice their opinions whether you like it or not.



I watched it live! I had 3 live streams going and yes, I saw the same thing. The police had those who were there to protest taking down the statue corralled in a pen. The police had the pen surrounded and meanwhile, balloons full of piss, feces, and chemicals along with tear gas were being lobbed into the pen by the so called peaceful ANTIFA goons. The police did NOTHING! One of the guys there is now blind in one eye, because he got sprayed by a peaceful ANTIFA goon with some form of acid.

Then the police got their orders to end the licensed protest, they FORCED those there to protest the removal of the statue right thru the ANIFA goons who had been so peacefully lobbing balloons full of snip, pepper spraying, etc etc.

The people who were there armed? Were citizens who were there to protect those on either side from being violently assaulted. Funny thing? They ended up surrounding and protecting those there who were protesting against the removal of the statue.

The MSM is STATE RUN media. Not truth, just an agenda.



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:28 PM
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And a look at the headlines today shows exactly what I was warning of; by acting like only one side was bad, people who identify with the other are becoming emboldened.


Vandals Spray Paint ‘Nazis’ On NH GOP Headquarters

boston.cbslocal.com...


Black Lives Matter Activists Float Criminalization of Confederate Imagery
Some radical progressives go beyond statues, suggest total ban on Southern Civil War memorabilia

www.lifezette.com...


Vandals strike statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee at Duke University

www.heraldsun.com...


Abraham Lincoln monument torched in Chicago: ‘An absolute disgraceful act’

www.washingtontimes.com...


In an editorial published Tuesday, N.D.B. Collins, an associate professor at Johns Hopkins University, was handed the imprimatur of The Washington Post to call for "direct action," direct action in the form of actual political violence.

"Charlottesville Showed That Liberalism Can’t Defeat White Supremacy. Only Direct Action Can.

The white nationalist riot in Charlottesville, a city that boasts “diversity makes us stronger,” made a lot of things clear. One of them is that generic solutions to the racial problem — bland affirmations of inclusiveness, tolerance and “free speech” — will no longer work. Indeed, they have never worked, at least not on their own. ...

[I]n April 1968, amid a flurry of other “rocks,” riots shook American cities following the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. It took that rolling unrest, not the promise of further economic growth, to spur President Lyndon Johnson and Congress to action. Within a week they had passed the Fair Housing Act.

Over the past century, liberalism, vexed by an ever-sharp, ever-cutting white supremacy, has needed these rocks. ...

Segregationists have again assumed their pedestals in the Justice Department, the White House and many other American temples. Paper alone won’t drive them out. Start throwing rocks."

Now... Is Professor Collins using the word "rock" as a metaphor?

Why, yes — yes, he is.

But "rock" is used as a metaphor for rioting — an act of political violence. And the sentence that immediately follows the use of this metaphor declaratively says that liberalism has failed and therefore we need more of "these rocks" — meaning more of these riots, or more political violence.

In other words, Professor Collins is openly calling for violence ... yes, against racists ... but not really against only racists.

Open your eyes, folks.



www.dailywire.com...

The legitimizing of violence on the left emboldens more of it, and in turn that causes a rise in extremism on the right.

The people in power are encouraging this, and it is going to escalate quickly.

Oh and eta.



Missouri Senator: ‘I Hope Trump Is Assassinated!’


dailycaller.com...
edit on 17-8-2017 by Grambler because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:31 PM
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a reply to: Kryties

Yet the video proved this smuck wrong. He isn't the only one there and tons of videos to prove he is a liar.



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

Heres my issue.

In my opinion, according to what I have seen and read, this is how I see what happened:

The white nationalist protesters turned up, many armed, on Friday night and attacked a peaceful group of counter-protesters first, after having incited tensions by marching through town chanting things like "Blood and Soil" which is a known Nazi slogan. Even clergy members were attacked after linking arms.

On Saturday, reinforcements, having heard about the violence perpetrated by the white nationalists, turned up, themselves armed, to defend against any further violence from the white nationalists. Violence ensued, culminating in a white nationalist slamming his car into a group of counter-protesters.

Trump goes on TV and fails to mention the Nazis, the KKK and the white supremacists that were present and simply accuses "many sides" of perpetrating violence. Anger ensues, not only that Trump fails to mention the extremists, but also because he fails to recognize that the counter-protesters were, for the most part, only defending themselves against violence.

It takes Trump a further 2 days, with even his daughter Ivanka attempting to get him to denounce the extremists, for Trump to finally get around to it. In those 2 days, however, the Neo-Nazis and KKK and white supremacists start to shout loudly about how Trump has given them legitimacy. The fact that Trump takes two days to say a simple sentence like "I totally denounce all forms of bigotry and hatred from white supremacists, neo-Nazis' and the KKK whom were present that night" makes many people suspicious that he himself harbors similar beliefs.

That about sums up where I am at right now. Yes, both sides perpetrated violence, but it was started by the white nationalists and was overwhelming compared to the violence perpetrated back, mostly in defense. The fact that Trump fails to recognize this is suspicious to me at the very least. The counter-protesters had every right to be there, and every right to defend themselves.

If I am shown evidence that irrefutably disproves this then I'm happy to listen.



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: Kryties

Extolling the virtues of Donald Trump? No, they say they like him. They say they like he wants to Make America Great Again. However, if they are KKK or Neo-Nazis they actually hate Trump by their own beliefs. I have already said this but....

Trumps closest adviser is Jewish.
Trumps Daughter Ivanka converted to Judaism.
Trump has Jewish grandchildren.
Trumps wife is an immigrant.
Trump in the past dated black women.

So, tell me how a member of the KKK or a Neo-Nazi could 'like' Trump? Last time I checked both groups hate everything I just stated about him except the fact he is white. (updated)
edit on 08pm31pmf0000002017-08-17T16:57:28-05:000428 by matafuchs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:36 PM
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originally posted by: amfirst1
a reply to: Kryties

Yet the video proved this smuck wrong. He isn't the only one there and tons of videos to prove he is a liar.


/sigh

I think you're the 10th person now to make this claim and yet only 1 has bothered to actually post their claimed evidence. Would you like to be the 2nd person to? Or would you prefer to be the 9th person to simply claim you have evidence but not actually post it?



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:38 PM
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a reply to: Kryties

Their account is consistent with the videos that we have seen.

virginiafreemen.com...

This is one of the accounts. There are others, some I cant post here as they were from forums.
This individual is a regular poster to a board I frequent. He has never provided any information in the past that I had reason to doubt. He has met very close associates of mine first hand and I trust their assessment of him as a straight no BS kind of guy.
Like I said you do not have to believe me, but multiple accounts of the event from the perspective of the right align with the photos and videos that were posted.
Do not think that I believe that those on the right were completely innocent in this. There were people there that wanted a confrontation on both sides of the figurative fence.
I place plenty of fault on the right for allowing themselves to get sucked into this event. They were given the details of the barricade set up prior to the event and they should have, at that point saw the inherent flaw in what was in place. Add to that the known indications that the Anti-fa were prepared to do violence and they should have called the event off or moved it to a private location.



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:41 PM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Kryties

Extolling the virtues of Donald Trump? No, they say they like him. They say they like he wants to Make America Great Again. However, if they are KKK or Neo-Nazis they actually hate Trump by their own beliefs. I have already said this but....

Trumps closest adviser is Jewish.
Trumps Daughter Ivanka converted to Judaism.
Trump has Jewish grandchildren.
Trumps wife is an immigrant.
Trump in the past dated black women.

So, tell me how a member of the KKK or a Neo-Nazi could 'like' Trump? Last time I checked both groups hate everything I just stated about him


You don't have to take my word for it, hear it from the man himself:




posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:48 PM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Kryties

Extolling the virtues of Donald Trump? No, they say they like him. They say they like he wants to Make America Great Again. However, if they are KKK or Neo-Nazis they actually hate Trump by their own beliefs. I have already said this but....

Trumps closest adviser is Jewish.
Trumps Daughter Ivanka converted to Judaism.
Trump has Jewish grandchildren.
Trumps wife is an immigrant.
Trump in the past dated black women.

So, tell me how a member of the KKK or a Neo-Nazi could 'like' Trump? Last time I checked both groups hate everything I just stated about him


And who is out on the streets protesting against Israel the most? Progressive Communists!
They sure do have a lot in common with the Nazi's, don't ya think?



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:48 PM
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a reply to: Grambler


But that group is evil too, right? The NYT was duped, and she really is a klansmen.


I have no more idea how "evil" that group is than you do. Well, that's not *exactly* true. I was able to track down who they were through social media. It was AWR-Kansas (American Warrior Revolution). They are *not* a white nationalist group. They're a Patriot Movement group with ties to the III%ers who claim to have been there to support the neo-Nazi's right to assemble.

From what I've gathered so far, there were two other militia groups there: the NY Light Foot Mountain Militia and the PA Light Foot Militia Laurel Highlands Ghost Company (pictured)



(not my circles) From statements by Christian Yingling, they weren't there in support of Unite the Right, the 32 people in his group were there to prevent violence between the groups.


Yingling called rally organizer Jason Kessler, a Charlottesville white nationalist, a "piece of (excrement)" and a "dirtbag" for bringing in hate groups loaded for a fight, with the ostensible goal of protesting the proposed removal of the park's statue of Robert E. Lee. Groups on both sides behaved like "jackasses," he said.

"This rally had nothing to do with uniting the right wing," Yingling said in the video. "They weren't there to support Southern heritage or protest a statue; they were there to fight."

In a separate video, George Curbelo, Yingling's "second in command" Saturday, reiterated that the militia wasn't there to support the rally.

"The New York Light Foot, the Pennsylvania Light Foot and all the other militias that were there... do not condone, support or in any other way align ourselves with white supremacy," Curbelo said.


Apparently the cops asked them to leave a few hours before the neo-Nazi terrorist plowed his car into a bunch of people.


For five hours, Yingling said, his group tried to hold apart thousands of protesters and counter-protesters, all of whom assaulted the militia and each other with fists, feet, clubs, shields, irritant spray, bottles and paint. He said they stopped belligerents on both sides where they could and pulled the injured from the fray and delivered them to acting "medics," but he denied reports that militia members hit back or struck anyone in an effort to break up fights.

The militia left when state and city police, who had otherwise been staying outside the conflict, said they were shutting down the park.


Anyway, according to these militia groups, they weren't there to support the neo-Nazis and so technically, they wouldn't qualify as "very fine people" from either side. Interestingly, as you can see Yingling didn't mince words and I'm pretty sure he's about as far-right as they come.

"They weren't there to support Southern heritage or protest a statue; they were there to fight."

EDIT to add:

Also interesting to note, we won't be seeing any III%ers at any more protests/rallies in the immediate future as the "national council" has issued a stand down order. It would seem that they've caught on that they're being associated with neo-Nazis through their recent activities though they imply that the media is unfairly characterizing them even as they admit that they usually "spin up teams to push back against protests by ANTIFA BLM" (they don't mind conflating, the hypocrites) and feel the need to include this part in the statement:


We strongly reject and denounce anyone who calls themselves a patriot or a Three Percenter that has attended or is planning on attending any type of protest or counter protest related to these white supremacist and Nazi groups.


(that's because there are easily found pictures of members fighting alongside white nationalist groups)
edit on 2017-8-17 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:48 PM
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a reply to: Kryties

Your account is missing information.
The Tiki march on Friday was a minor event. There were reports of some scuffles but it was not a brawl like on Saturday.
This event has been planned for about two months. No one heard of the march on Friday night (my understanding is that march was just a hastly organized thing at the last minute) and then showed up Saturday as reinforcements.
The Saturday event was the big show and it was advertised for a long time. These guys all read each others pages and the Anti-fa have been planning to counter protest since about an hour after it was announced.
Why do you think the anti-fa people were there with balloons filled with human waste and drain cleaner?
Do you think they just spontaneously produced that? They planned it from the get go.



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: matafuchs

They don't actually hate Trump. I don't think they care that Melania is an immigrant as she's a European immigrant. They do hate Kushner though. From everything I've seen directly from these people, what they see in Trump is a step in the right direction. Though as Crybaby Nazi said, they're hoping for somebody to come along who is a "lot more racist" than Trump.



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:54 PM
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a reply to: Kryties

I don't care what David Duke says. He is not my president. Every so often he is pulled back into the media narrative so that someone can be proven racist.

www.politico.com...

2 years ago he denounced Duke.



Donald Trump says he isn’t interested in the endorsement of David Duke, the anti-Semitic former Ku Klux Klan leader who praised the GOP presidential hopeful earlier this week on his radio show. “I don’t need his endorsement; I certainly wouldn’t want his endorsement,” Trump said during an interview with Bloomberg’s Mark Halperin and John Heilemann. He added: “I don’t need anyone’s endorsement.”


But I guess that will still not be good enough for you.....



posted on Aug, 17 2017 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: Dragoon01

Antifa are part of the "armed reinforcements" that arrived on Saturday, after violence had already been instigated by the other side the night before. They came armed with those things BECAUSE of the violence already perpetrated.

Sorry if that wasn't clear before.




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