Eurocopter Tigers grounded.

On july 26 a German Tiger lost its main rotor blades about 2000 feet above the ground,killing both crew members in Mali,South Africa.

Last Friday, after preliminary investigations, Tiger manufacture Airbus Helicopters put out a safety bulletin basically saying that they had not yet identified a part or a reason for the blades to separate from the aircraft. Because of that, they could not say whether it was a design or a manufacturing fault or a maintenance error that caused the crash. Consequently, the statement inferred, Airbus Helicopters was not in a position to propose a solution that would prevent further crashes.

Unless its a specific maintenance fault found is it just Eurocopter having a knee jerk reaction for safeties sake.
It does not bode well for the 22 Australian Tigers who have struggled with maintenance and compatability issues with having them in service in rough Australian conditions.
Tigers Grounded

a reply to: Blackfinger

How do we know it wasn't ground fire? Grounding the fleet because of design flaws might just be a cover story.

The French Military occupies Mali for the Uranium they use in French nuclear power reactors. In Afghanistan they used to shoot at rotors to disable Soviet craft and bring them down.

a reply to: intrptr

This sounds more like the rotors separated entirely and fell from the sky. Probably either related to a tech not torquing or installing them right or a material defect.

originally posted by: Blackfinger
On july 26 a German Tiger lost its main rotor blades about 2000 feet above the ground,killing both crew members in Mali,South Africa.

Not entirely accurate.
According to a preliminary report of the General Flugsicherheit der Bundeswehr (Office of the General for Aviation Security of the Armed Forces) the helicopter lost its main rotor blades only after it went into rapid descent. Rapid descent meaning the helicopter suddenly lowered its nose by 90° and went into the ground vertically within seconds.
They are still trying to get usefull data form the flight recoders, but so far they have no idea what happened.

Enemy Action is highly unlikley though. The crew of the second german Tiger on this mission (they witnessed the crash) didnt report anything of the sort and wasnt attacked either. Neither was there some sort of emergency call or any information about technical problems during the flight. The helicopter just went in without prior warning.
Pilot error is highly unlikely too. The German Luftwaffe has very few (Tiger) pilots with enough flying hours to be ready deployments, so they frequently have to deploy test pilots and flight instructors.
According to the German Minister of Defense, the two killed pilots probably had the most experience with the type in the entire Luftwaffe.

So what happened? Nobody knows. What it looks like is a catastrophic loss of control. I dont want to speculate but given the depressing history of this ... project, this tragedy doesnt surprise me at all.

a reply to: intrptr

His wingman reported that he suddenly lowered the nose and dived down.

At some point before ground impact the blades separated, according to investigators.

a reply to: Caughtlurking

Rotor separation can occur in both situations. But I don't know the details of the incident ether, what maneuver they made, whether they were taking fire at the time, or if this has ever occurred before.

a reply to: moebius

His wingman reported that he suddenly lowered the nose and dived down.

At some point before ground impact the blades separated, according to investigators.

Overloading?

Why did he make that sudden dive?

a reply to: intrptr

How do we know it wasn't ground fire? Grounding the fleet because of design flaws might just be a cover story.

How do we know? Because that is the reverse of the situation that Airbus Helicopters would dearly love to see reported. The Tiger has had such a troubled development, testing, production and deployment it is only rivalled by the equally bad NH-90. The aircraft has had such a litany of problems that finding yet another major flaw that has resulted in an aircraft loss and dead crew would be totally unsurprising. Plus the other Tiger witnessed the incident and did not report any ground fire, just a sudden loss of altitude followed by blade separation. And the likelihood of someone being able to aim small arms fire accurately at the main rotors when they were at 2000ft and score a disabling hit is pretty low. This has all the hallmarks of a major failure in the drive train or flight controls. As to what has caused it, only an accident investigation will find out.

a reply to: Blackfinger
When a manufacturer has an airframe with all the problems that the Tiger has endured , has the NH-90 debacle and grounding of the Super Puma/H225 Caracal fleet coupled with an accident of unknown cause its not a knee jerk. Not doing it will see them sued beyond imagination if they dont issue the unsafe bulletin to operators and there are other accidents.

I entirely agree about the fate of the Tiger in Australian service. I think its a shot duck. Bell have recently made a public offer to supply AH-1Z's. They point out that for just the price of the next ARH Tiger fleet upgrade they could immediately replace half the fleet (11 out of a total of 22) and that's for an aircraft fully cleared for all missions and all weapons clearance testing done. Plus the Zulu is fully marinized for operations off the Canberra class or any other naval vessel and its operating costs are lower than the Tigers. Kind of a no brainer really.

a reply to: thebozeian

Plus the other Tiger witnessed the incident and did not report any ground fire, just a sudden loss of altitude followed by blade separation.

The overloading of g forces caused the separation, the sudden plunge, sounds like a loss of power.

Like you said, who knows, just like I said...

By the way, loss of aircraft due to ground fire is typically covered up in the main stream public eye.

Plus the Zulu is fully marinized for operations off the Canberra class or any other naval vessel and its operating costs are lower than the Tigers. Kind of a no brainer really.

Pretty much explains the WT actual F that many here in Australia said when the Defence department gave the release that we were buying Tigers..That was 12 years ago..

It could be as simple as FOD.

2nd.

originally posted by: Blackfinger

Plus the Zulu is fully marinized for operations off the Canberra class or any other naval vessel and its operating costs are lower than the Tigers. Kind of a no brainer really.

Pretty much explains the WT actual F that many here in Australia said when the Defence department gave the release that we were buying Tigers..That was 12 years ago..

I remember walking into Warton and one of the directors office had a Tiger model in his office window. No idea what BAe had to do with Tiger back in the day but wonder with the Seffirs getting Tiger and Hawk Trainers and the Aussies getting Tigers and Hawk LIFT if there were a 'promotion' on?

Arent australia about to decide on a replacement for Tiger? It has to be a Navalised Apache like the UKs or a Cobra like the Marines.

They are looking at the Zulu model Cobra..Again.... as it was offered to us at the same time as the Tiger.

Update:
Airbus has issued an Alert Service Bulletin instructing pilots to adjust their level of attention based on environmental conditions when experiencing turbulence while flying on autopilot.
Or to put it in simpler terms: dont trust the autopilot to handle turbulence if its too hot outside

This Bulletin is just a precaution though, the investigation is still ongoing and they still have no idea what caused it.
Turbulence is just conjecture at this point and Airbus wants to be on the safe side.
And the Bundeswehr is not affected by this anyway since they already have equvialent national regulations.

Meanwhile German Tigers remain grounded indefintiely. They'd fly if theres an emergency though.

for further details: augengeradeaus.net

In Australia every day its too hot

new findings, at last

German military helicopter crash in Mali caused by incorrectly set autopilot-report

Spiegel Online said the Defence Ministry had informed the parliamentary defense committee about the new findings on Tuesday.

It said the autopilot controlled the airplane’s elevator. It remained unclear who programmed the settings on the autopilot software, which were not found on any other Tiger helicopters.

www.reuters.com... B2WP?il=0