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Is the Confederate flag RACIST

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posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 03:29 AM
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a reply to: JinMI

Liverpool, London and nearly two centuries of American infrastructure were built using the profits and labour of the slave trade. Are all the monuments, palaces and national buildings to be torn down?



a reply to: testingtesting

I very nearly added the DoH to the list.




posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 03:30 AM
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originally posted by: Vorian
a reply to: FlyingFox
Yes. They can be used in museums to show what countries should not do, but they should not fly from ANY official US building. EVER.

The wrong side lost. They were pretty evil in their intent.


Evil is in the eye of the beholder. The wrong side Won actually. at the time of the war Lincoln was in breach of his duties due to breaking 11 laws to have his civil war. America actually died when he and the north won.(well the america th e founding fathers dreamed of that is)

Yeah slavery sucked but at the time it was legal.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 03:32 AM
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originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: fiverx313
y'all are cute trying to defend the confederate flag. it's got an almost mystical, security-blanket like quality for some folks. do you think if the south won the war your lives would be better, or what? :/

Very high level quality reply there.
If the South had of won there would be 2 countries instead of 1. And , most likely , no slavery anyway. Folks had to shed the rest of their British Colonial mindset at one time or another...


I've secretly confided to my boyfriend that I wished you guys had won.

Things would be a lot simpler for all of us.
edit on 15-8-2017 by Abysha because: Secretz



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 03:39 AM
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a reply to: Kandinsky

Dangerous words there. I'm sure everything with the name Washington will be abolished because, slavery.

Should we delve into how much of the middle east and far east were built on the slave trade? The rise and fall of how many empires and dynasties?

To anyone else reading, this is not condoning slavery.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 03:45 AM
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stars and bars

they call this stars and bars where i grew up. not sure what game you're playing here? are you going to say this isn't a confederate flag, now?



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 03:46 AM
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a reply to: JinMI

Yeah, it can really silly and very fast. Everywhere is built on conquest and every nation has skeletons in its closets. What's done is done and we can acknowledge it even though we can't change it. Rewriting or deleting it is a waste of time.

Same here, I'm not glorifying the horrors of the slave trade either. It was a despicable business and fairer minds prevailed to abolish it.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 03:48 AM
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a reply to: fiverx313


What you linked is "The Battle Flag of Northern Virginia."

No game is being played. Just refuting your disinformation.
edit on 15-8-2017 by JinMI because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 03:52 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: fiverx313


What you linked is "The Battle Flag of Northern Virginia."

No game is being played. Just refuting your disinformation.


people think of it as the confederate flag. that is what is used. it's not disinformation. you are just playing a bull# game, and it's very transparent.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 03:55 AM
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a reply to: fiverx313

I don't care what 'people think.'

You're post is giving a pass to complete ignorance. That ignorance has now led to the loss of life in the present based on a relic of the past that has no bearing on anything of significance in modern day culture save some fringe idealists.

I'm sorry you can't see the road this leads down, same as in the last thread we communicated, where does this end?



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 04:00 AM
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a reply to: JinMI

why would it have any significance aside from what 'people' are actually 'thinking' about it?

it's used as a symbol of 'southern pride' and as a symbol of racism and hatred. whether it aligns strictly with history is not really germane. or shouldn't all the southern pride folks be flying the one with the stripes?

you seem to want to ignore a lot of really relevant bull# in favor of scoring some 'well actually' points, and that's just kind of mental masturbation as far as i'm concerned.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 04:04 AM
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a reply to: fiverx313




why would it have any significance aside from what 'people' are actually 'thinking' about it?


Like I said, I don't care what other people think. Why do you?




it's used as a symbol of 'southern pride' and as a symbol of racism and hatred. whether it aligns strictly with history is not really germane. or shouldn't all the southern pride folks be flying the one with the stripes?


I for one am not ok with altering history to suite a narrative. History is history, what is left of the factual information should be preserved. Especially the names and what they implied. Now if it were solely a racists icon, indeed, why don't they fly the stars and bars?




you seem to want to ignore a lot of really relevant bull# in favor of scoring some 'well actually' points, and that's just kind of mental masturbation as far as i'm concerned.


Your personal attacks are a clear indication that the facts are at least a little threatening. The only thing relevant are those facts. How individuals feel about history is not mine, nor should it be anyone else problem.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 04:08 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: fiverx313




why would it have any significance aside from what 'people' are actually 'thinking' about it?


Like I said, I don't care what other people think. Why do you?




it's used as a symbol of 'southern pride' and as a symbol of racism and hatred. whether it aligns strictly with history is not really germane. or shouldn't all the southern pride folks be flying the one with the stripes?


I for one am not ok with altering history to suite a narrative. History is history, what is left of the factual information should be preserved. Especially the names and what they implied. Now if it were solely a racists icon, indeed, why don't they fly the stars and bars?




you seem to want to ignore a lot of really relevant bull# in favor of scoring some 'well actually' points, and that's just kind of mental masturbation as far as i'm concerned.


Your personal attacks are a clear indication that the facts are at least a little threatening. The only thing relevant are those facts. How individuals feel about history is not mine, nor should it be anyone else problem.


lol okay dude




posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 04:19 AM
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originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: JinMI

Liverpool, London and nearly two centuries of American infrastructure were built using the profits and labour of the slave trade. Are all the monuments, palaces and national buildings to be torn down?



a reply to: testingtesting

I very nearly added the DoH to the list.


Yes, and the UK took the lead in abolishing slavery and then throttled the slave trade on both sides of Africa. There is such a thing as recognising when you are in the wrong and apologising for it. There are no memorials to the slave industry. There are however a few statues to this to this chap. In case you haven't heard of him he's the bloke who helped kickstart the movement to abolish the slave trade and slavery itself.
Did the Confederacy ever apologise for supporting slavery? Did the British intervene in the Civil War to support slavery? Wait, nope, that's a negative on both counts there.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 04:40 AM
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a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Mate, Liverpool is my home town. There are streets named after slavers and streets named after abolitionists. Memorials if you like.



There is such a thing as recognising when you are in the wrong and apologising for it.


Who's left to apologise for whatever crimes and human rights offences were committed under the Confederate flag? Do you know what I mean? Who's qualified to apologise and who out there is qualified to accept one? These events were decades ago and everyone is long dead.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 04:44 AM
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a reply to: FlyingFox

A flag is a symbol. How can an inanimate object be racist?

I challenge anyone here to find me an account of any Confederate soldier who says he fought in the war to keep slavery as an institution.

I've read many, many accounts of the war from the soldiers themselves. Many letters, diaries, autobiographies, etc. I have not read an account of a single Southern soldier who says he joined the Confederate army to keep slaves.

There is however, a great many of them who talk about a corrupt Federal government who was totally out of control and no longer represented all of its people. They talk about how they were getting taxed to the hilt, and were not being represented. (Any of this sound familiar? almost like history repeats itself right?) Basically all of the things that the Revolutionary war was fought over. The civil war was actually called the Second war for American independence in the South.

There is a whole lot of spin on this issue, always remember.....that the United States was on so much of the moral high ground that they fought a war against this supposedly crazy racist regime, and the whole time they did it with a 100 percent segregated army.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 04:57 AM
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Wether the flag is racist or not is no longer relevant. It has been deemed racist by those that control the narrative, and has that has been predictably adopted by those who blindly support narratives.
edit on 15-8-2017 by CulturalResilience because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 05:49 AM
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This is getting ridiculous. It was the battle flag of the Army of North Virginia, an army of the Confederate States of America, a separatist movement that only existed in order to perpetuate the institution of slavery. Read the Cornerstone speech by the vice president of the CSA, where he said that slavery was, guess what, the cornerstone of the CSA's bid for independence.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 05:56 AM
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a reply to: Lucidparadox

You need a real history lesson.

The Civil War was about who controlled the economics. Slavery was more, not only, prominent in the south due to their dependence on agrarian economics. The north wanted to control the movement of money and was afraid the south was getting too "rich."

The north and the south during the early 1800s also, as today, have rich but very different cultures.

The Civil War is the largest black spot in our country's history where we killed our own, worse than both World Wars combined. Huge hurts still exist 160 years later. It is hard to really say who "won" despite what text books write.

Generations since the war do seem to pass down their versions and pride does factor into how one interprets the south's place in this country to this day. Dumb, losers, racists-names used to describe southern culture and keep it down do still exist and, unfortunately, these small groups in the south are quick to take offense and respond.

The Civil War should be taught equally, honestly, nationally with sensitivity to the truth. Kind of like Columbus and the Indian stories. It's a sad day that this flag of pride is being used to provoke hate by the ignorant. It's sad that southerners are still resting culturally in shame and sometimes need to relive the past to regain their pride of culture.

Perhaps it is time to let the flag live as a symbol of the past and not our present or future, especially if it is being used to incite hatred and division again in our country.


edit on 15-8-2017 by Justso because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 05:58 AM
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From a couple of thousand miles away, that flag means Rebel, Southern Rock and Rockabilly.

A flag means what the person looking at it wants it to. Some people think the cross of st George or the Union flag are racist in some way. Usually the sort of people that are ok with someone flying an IS flag.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 06:11 AM
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a reply to: AngryCymraeg




It was the battle flag of the Army of North Virginia, an army of the Confederate States of America, a separatist movement that only existed in order to perpetuate the institution of slavery.


Like most history, its not so cut and dry when you actually begin to read about it. Especially how it started.


“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”


Abraham Lincoln
Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois, September 18, 1858

If freeing the slaves was the goal of the war, why did Lincoln wait until it had been raging for two and a half years to issue his famous emancipation proclamation?

Why does there not exist one single account of a soldier saying he fought for the Confederacy to keep slaves? I'm not talking about the politicians, I mean the guys in the trenches who were actually doing the fighting and dying. You have to remember slave and non slave state was tied up in the language of the politics of the day. Saying pro or anti slave state was like saying red or blue state today.

Many slaveowners actually wanted to free their slaves in the South before the war broke out. There was a problem that many slaves and slaveowners faced though, and that was the question of exactly HOW to free the slaves. How do you take somebody that has been a slave their whole life, and integrate them into society in a way that they are a productive functioning member of that society? Its like taking a zoo animal and releasing them back in the wild. Sure the animal is free, but has never survived in the wild and will most likely die of exposure anyway.

There is much more with this facet of American history than the few paragraphs they teach you in school. After all, it sounds much better for the history book if you say the war was about something noble as "freeing the slaves" instead of putting down a bunch of Americans who wanted to govern themselves.

And all of these idiots who are going around tearing down statues of Robert E. Lee would really be surprised if they actually read about the man.
edit on 15-8-2017 by Cancerwarrior because: (no reason given)




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