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Protesters pull down Confederate statue at old Durham County courthouse

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posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: 123143

Learning the lessons that history has to teach might be better than merely letting go. But it's better than destroying it.


I agree.

Burning the Library of Alexandria was stupid. Some people learned nothing from that.




posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: 123143

Needn't go back that far.

1930's Germany. America school boards banning books that portray uncomfortable truths about the history of our country, or the attitudes of it towards segments of the population.

Etc...

Seems we learn, as a whole, nothing from our past mistakes/stupidities, and merrily and with great enthusiasm embrace the very same thought processes again, and again, and again.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:26 PM
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originally posted by: IAMTAT
I keep getting flashes of ISIS destroying all of those ancient historic monuments.

Or the US Marines pulling down the Saddam Statues.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:51 PM
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I wonder how many people that are suddenly all for historical preservation for totally non-race based reasons also argued against the existence of the National Museum of African American History and Culture. Looking at the threads where it's brought up on here I know there's at least a few.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

None. History is important. Unless you want to argue I'm only allowed to be interested in my [insert tribe] ancestors story?



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:56 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Gryphon66




Yes, there are some people alive today who blame other people alive today for slavery.


Sure are like the poster than said this:




let's forget the fact that the mentality of the folks who were Democrats in 1860 is the same as Republicans in 2017.




Only you could see that as blaming someone for slavery. I guess you can just make it up as you go along.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
I wonder how many people that are suddenly all for historical preservation for totally non-race based reasons also argued against the existence of the National Museum of African American History and Culture. Looking at the threads where it's brought up on here I know there's at least a few.


I didn't see threads on it.

But most of the mainstream complaints I heard was that they were leaving out black conservatives like Clarence Thomas.

But thats a different issue altogether.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:01 PM
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How do we look at the Jefferson Memorial now?

Questions were raised over a year ago in a discussion on CNN about that subject.
Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. George Washington owned slaves.

They didn't just tolerate the system, they were part of it.

Should we rename our nation's capital?

Should we take down the Washington Monument?

Should we destroy every federal edifice that involved slave labor in building it?

How do we move forward from here? Should we progress with this idea of destruction of bad memories?



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: Grambler

The difference is that the Alt Right phrase was invented by Richard Spencer to describe those folks who agree with a certain ideology.

SJW became a perjorative term picked up by some who think they're on the right-wing after its extensive use in "Gamergate" (asssociated most firmly with Milo).

It originally stood for "Social Justice Warrior" ... I"m not sure how any of us could debate that social justice is a good thing. However, as I've said and you noted as well, it has become a catch all term for some with any sort of "identity politics" (which is yet another catch all phrase.)

Core authoritarianism is the enemy I fight particularly when it attempts to contradict the principles of the US Constitution.

I'm glad we've worked our way back around to agreeing on something.






posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:05 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler
Things are going to get a lot worse.

One side in this battle has been allowed to get away with far too much while being celebrated by the media and politicians, and the other side feels like they are being backed into a corner.

I wish that the extremists on both sides would be drowned out by rational voices, but I don't see it happening.


i'd like to add to this:
wanting the statues to remain is not a white supremacy thing.... or a bring back slavery thing.
it is part of the united states history. we can't change the past but we can learn from it.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: butcherguy

Bad memories or institutional racism?

Good point Butch.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:17 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: butcherguy

Bad memories or institutional racism?

Good point Butch.

They are supposed to be both at this point in our history.

Where do we go from here?



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:19 PM
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originally posted by: Grambler

I could go all day but here are a few.



Uh huh. I'm sure you could, but in an effort to stem an otherwise wordy influx of nothing, how about you point me to the exact point I was making in the first place....show me anywhere in any of those studies the hyperbole you were holding onto....the "evils of Whiteness"



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: butcherguy

Bad memories or institutional racism?

Good point Butch.

They are supposed to be both at this point in our history.

Where do we go from here?


Like I said, it's a good question.

Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, heavily influenced the Constitution, and served as our Third President.

He was also a Virginian and plantation owner and therefore owned slaves.

Should all the monuments to slave owners be repurposed? Or torn down?

What do you think?



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:24 PM
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originally posted by: kruphix


You can continue to defend racism and it's symbols of hate...but like I told someone else, you are on the wrong side of history on this one.


Defend racism? I think you are reading through a filter of your own making. How does my argument of compromise, preservation of history to learn from and doing things in a legal rational manner say to you I'm defending racism? I'm opposing lawlessness and anarchy as any rational person would. Odd how radical activists and their supporters always turn to mud throwing and slander as a tool. Or should I say predictable.

History? You mean the sanitized history, rewritten by those who think hiding it is rational? A history written by less than honest people with an agenda to make change by force? People who never work with others to improve things?
edit on 8/15/2017 by Blaine91555 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: butcherguy

Bad memories or institutional racism?

Good point Butch.

They are supposed to be both at this point in our history.

Where do we go from here?


Like I said, it's a good question.

Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence, heavily influenced the Constitution, and served as our Third President.

He was also a Virginian and plantation owner and therefore owned slaves.

Should all the monuments to slave owners be repurposed? Or torn down?

What do you think?

I wonder, should we burn the Constitution, since he wrote it?

I think it is a waste of time and money to destroy our history, rather than learn from it.
I would not be opposed to making it a point at his monuments that he was a part of the institutional racist system of the time. That is how we learn.
Erasing it would not help.

The concentration camps still stand as a memory to teach future generations of what we have been at times... as humans, and what should should strive not to be ever again.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:41 PM
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It's important here to remember that Southerners are the only Americans that have ever been DEFEATED in a war.

While slavery was a "substantive issue" in the Civil War, it was not the only issue. That is propaganda.

The core issues were economic and political and were the bitter fruit of the compromises necessary to form The United States of America.

And ... that war was lost by the South.

The supremacy of the Constitution and Federal law over individual State sovereignty was established by military force.

Often, Southern Pride is conflated with racism. And some times, many times, it isn't.

Southern Pride is fine. Racism isn't.
edit on 15-8-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:42 PM
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originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: Grambler

I could go all day but here are a few.



Uh huh. I'm sure you could, but in an effort to stem an otherwise wordy influx of nothing, how about you point me to the exact point I was making in the first place....show me anywhere in any of those studies the hyperbole you were holding onto....the "evils of Whiteness"


So you did not read what I linked?

Of course not.

I am not going to repost them all here, go back and read.

Here is one snippett I posted that you couldn't be bothered to read.


With similar detachment from reality, Portland Community College claims that its annual “White History Month” initiative condemning the many evils of “whiteness” will help to “change our campus climate” for the better.


www.frontpagemag.com...



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:44 PM
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originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: kruphix

I think moving them to museums is the correct answer.

As to what do we learn from history? What not to do of course.

Purging history is generally something done in countries like NK to control the narrative and by doing that the people. It's not something any society of free people should want.

Having the statues moved to museums is something I'd imagine most people would be willing to get behind, but no rational person is going to condone violence or destruction of property as the way to do it. With a little civics education and using the system instead of fighting it, things like this can be done by consensus and peacefully.




I don't they should even be moved to a museum.

They should stay where they are.

In public view.

I don't like looking at butt ugly people. Should we put them in museums or out of sight in one place and charge admission?

The people who pulled that statue down should be arrested, where do they think they are?! Iraq?!







As a compromise between sides, moving them to museums might work towards satisfying both sides. Most who find those statues offensive are likely not involved in the unlawful behavior and they need to be considered also. Working together for an acceptable compromise is not caving in, it's how it should be in any democracy.

As to those who did the deed in this case, yes they should be arrested and charged. They should be hit directly in the pocketbook and spend a few days without their freedom for their actions, so they know acts of anarchy have a cost in real terms.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: butcherguy

Jefferson didn't write the Constitution.

Perhaps we could immortalize something at each of these monuments and buildings that clearly states that the United States of America has for what ... 152 years ... declared slavery illegal and established Amendments to our Constitution to enshrine the promise of our founding documents which state that all are created equal? Or that we have for the last 50 years or so have created a system of laws which address continuing inequalities and that we acknowledge that where inequality exists that we will be on CONTINUAL guard against it?

Sounds like a good start.


edit on 15-8-2017 by Gryphon66 because: noted



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