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Protesters pull down Confederate statue at old Durham County courthouse

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posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:28 AM
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a reply to: fiverx313




because the government shouldn't endorse racism, because that is part of the overall problem.


As I first asked and brought more evidence to the point, where does it end.




i feel like you're just endlessly circling a point of some kind but i'm just mystified as to what it is.


I don't know how else to point it out, where does it end? That is why I brought up generals who owned slaves and how it is a large part of American history. I'm not sure how else to clarify where this came from, where it goes and to beg the question, where does it end?

You give Washington a pass, why? Because he was president, is that where the line stops? Slavery was legal for 200 years! It's important to evolve, move on.




it does really matter. you can't strip these questions of all context, because what is going on in our society is directly relevant.


The context is simple. A symbol shrouded in inhumane behavior being heralded and put upon a pedestal. I ask if because it bears if the argument is equal to things you may be indifferent or agree with.




posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:50 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: fiverx313




because the government shouldn't endorse racism, because that is part of the overall problem.


As I first asked and brought more evidence to the point, where does it end.




i feel like you're just endlessly circling a point of some kind but i'm just mystified as to what it is.


I don't know how else to point it out, where does it end? That is why I brought up generals who owned slaves and how it is a large part of American history. I'm not sure how else to clarify where this came from, where it goes and to beg the question, where does it end?

You give Washington a pass, why? Because he was president, is that where the line stops? Slavery was legal for 200 years! It's important to evolve, move on.




it does really matter. you can't strip these questions of all context, because what is going on in our society is directly relevant.


The context is simple. A symbol shrouded in inhumane behavior being heralded and put upon a pedestal. I ask if because it bears if the argument is equal to things you may be indifferent or agree with.


i can't really answer your questions, because each of them is predicated on the context of the moment. i sense you're uncomfortable with not having a definitive answer for every single thing, but life rarely works that way.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:53 AM
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a reply to: fiverx313




i can't really answer your questions, because each of them is predicated on the context of the moment. i sense you're uncomfortable with not having a definitive answer for every single thing, but life rarely works that way.


With that final deflection, good luck.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:59 AM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: Krakatoa

Huh?

Statues venerating Confederates are a constant reminder of how bad slavery was?

Teacher: Look kids, if you fight to maintain something horrible, like the institution of slavery, in half a century your descendants will put up a statue of you to show that the people you fought to keep in chains still don't have the power to do anything anything about it!

Little Jimmy: Oh boy! I sure don't want people to put a statue to me!



Interesting how the Germans leave remains of the concentration camps.

What is happening here in the U.S. may not be the destruction of history just the obfuscation of it.

Which is just as bad.




posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:04 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: fiverx313




i can't really answer your questions, because each of them is predicated on the context of the moment. i sense you're uncomfortable with not having a definitive answer for every single thing, but life rarely works that way.


With that final deflection, good luck.



sorry to leave you hanging, good luck to you as well



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:14 AM
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originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: fiverx313




because the government shouldn't endorse racism, because that is part of the overall problem.


As I first asked and brought more evidence to the point, where does it end.




i feel like you're just endlessly circling a point of some kind but i'm just mystified as to what it is.


I don't know how else to point it out, where does it end? That is why I brought up generals who owned slaves and how it is a large part of American history. I'm not sure how else to clarify where this came from, where it goes and to beg the question, where does it end?

You give Washington a pass, why? Because he was president, is that where the line stops? Slavery was legal for 200 years! It's important to evolve, move on.




it does really matter. you can't strip these questions of all context, because what is going on in our society is directly relevant.


The context is simple. A symbol shrouded in inhumane behavior being heralded and put upon a pedestal. I ask if because it bears if the argument is equal to things you may be indifferent or agree with.


i can't really answer your questions, because each of them is predicated on the context of the moment. i sense you're uncomfortable with not having a definitive answer for every single thing, but life rarely works that way.

If you have a belief , be prepared to back it up if needed. Life has always been that way....
Dont be like so many others . When engaged in a debate , by all means debate or yield to your opponent.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:16 AM
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if you had a house on a big lot, would you be tempted to have your own flag? i go between chiffon and pirate, in my minda reply to: DBCowboy


CX

posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:24 AM
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a reply to: Krakatoa

I agree.

When i was serving in Germany, i visited a concentration camp. Many visitors were there, young and old, German and other nationalities too.

You'd think with a history like that, they'd have been bulldozed to the ground, but it was educational, and i didn't see one person who visited there who came away thinking what happened was a good thing.

The lesson was passed on because this horrendous place in hostory was kept.

CX.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:27 AM
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originally posted by: CX
a reply to: Krakatoa

I agree.

When i was serving in Germany, i visited a concentration camp. Many visitors were there, young and old, German and other nationalities too.

You'd think with a history like that, they'd have been bulldozed to the ground, but it was educational, and i didn't see one person who visited there who came away thinking what happened was a good thing.

The lesson was passed on because this horrendous place in hostory was kept.

CX.



Do they allow Nazis in there to admire it?

No? Is it because Nazis know it is there to remind them of their shame? Why?

Do you think white nationalists view these statues the same?



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:32 AM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Krakatoa

I don't see a difference between this and book-burning.


Quite a bit.

Statues aren't educational. They show an idealized person (and often not a very good likeness) and give a rank and something like "hero of..."

Compare that to the magnificent three-volume LEE'S LIEUTENANTS - which is one of THE classic military strategy treatises (and histories).

Destroy the statue and you get rid of an unreliable likeness put up long after the person's death (these went up in the 1920's and later) with a sentence fragment about who and what they were. These are people whose names appear hundreds of thousands of times in books on the Civil War, in library archives, in stories (fiction and nonfiction) and even in movies and plays.

How does taking out the statues compare to the hunting down and destroying every volume of LEE'S LIEUTENANTS (which would have to be pried out of every military library in the world and a lot of private collections)?

What is the value of an unreliable portrait compared to the whole library of books and biographies?

(there are other books of course on the Civil War and people have their favorites. Those three volumes just happened to be my favorites when I was a kid. Still read them on occasion.)
edit on 15-8-2017 by Byrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:35 AM
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originally posted by: burgerbuddy

originally posted by: Lucidparadox

originally posted by: Perfectenemy

originally posted by: Lucidparadox

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986

originally posted by: aethertek
Well it wont need to be melted, crumpled on impact, too bad so sad.



& in other good news Texas A&M canceled Dick spencer & his nazi hatefest.
Then just for giggles the hotels in Washington wouldn't rent him a room so he had to do his song & dance at his crappy apt.
Still laughing about that LOL.

Name them & shame them, drive them back into what ever stinking hole they crawled out of.

K~

Holy #.. what a sad sad video with some sad sad individuals. I'm going to assume you had your hands up in celebration watching this and probably imagined yourself kicking the statue too.





I know I Did!

This video got my adrenalin pumping!

They all need to be torn down! Immediately!

The Confederacy was a rebellion.. a terrorist organization that took the lives of union soldiers, and supported the enslavement of citizens.

They shouldn't exist outside of museums in the first place.

Germany doesn't have any monuments to Hitler that I'm aware of.


Yeah Auschwitz is not considered as a constant reminder of our dark past nope not at all. Wow people are getting truly dumber by the minute.


Sorry.. I'm misunderstanding your retort.

I was saying Germany doesn't have any monuments of Hitler.. because.. yeah.. Germany is sane.

I'm saying that these things should be kept in museums here in the US... and should not be up in public for adoration.

The difference is.. in Germany.. Auschwitz brings shame, and reminds the citizens of Germany and the world of the atrocities of war.

Whereas here in the US.. these statues are state sanctioned monuments built in adoration of confederate leaders.

Totally different.

The Confederacy was a terrorist organization



What history book did you get that from?



Ok..

Lets see...

The Confederates we a rebellion to the Union were they not?

They were a collection of people that formed an army to fight our nation, from the inside.

That sounds like a terrorist to me.

If you formed an army and started attacking US citizens, soldiers today... you would in fact be labeled a terrorist would you not?

The Confederacy was akin to a terrorist organization.




Also on a side note.. to all the people saying.. "Tearing down statues is what ISIS does!!"..

No.. its what everyone does.

If Isis erects statues of their war leaders... you can best be sure that once they are eradicated we and the citizens of ISIS inflicted countries will tear down those too.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:41 AM
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a reply to: IAMTAT

be careful, you might be giving antifa goons here ideas.....



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:46 AM
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originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

Any clue what "left for posterity" means?
It means there is something worth learning about the man whose statue you just pulled down.



This was left for posterity. In a museum.



Where it belongs.


Are you joking? Please tell me you're joking.


Why are holocaust artifacts funny to you?


Nice troll attempt. Please try to stop putting in my mouth.

Now, what IS a joke is your hidden suggestion we should put the Confederate States in a museum.

1) Museums are not prisons for our undesired past.

2) They exist as a place to collect things and exalt them.

3) History is SUPPOSED to be all around us.

4) To put things in a museum because many would rather not look at them only shows their significance in existence.

.Stop being such a Nazi.


Id like to address your point #3.

History is all around us regardless. Example is the battlefield at Gettysburg. It a location we can visit and learn about past events.. like a museum, or our history books, where we can look at statues, recreations, artifacts etc.

That is perfectly fine and acceptable.

However what so many of you right wingers arent understanding about our point.. is the whole concept of a statue and monument..

The purpose of a statue/monument is to give honor to something great. To have a statue in public is an honor. It is how we recognize people who have done great things. We build these to inspire us, to see what greatness came before, to guide us.

A statue of a person who supported slavery, and the confederacy goes against the whole point of a statue/monument. Robert Lee was the enemy. An enemy that fought on behalf of one of the greatest atrocities in American history.

Think about that.

Does he deserve the honor of a statue? Is he a figure we should look up to? Aspire to be?

No, he's not.

Its really that simple



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:51 AM
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originally posted by: Krakatoa
a reply to: Lucidparadox

Are you jumping for joy over the destruction of this public monument too?
Teen accused of vandalizing Boston's Holocaust memorial

After all, fascism takes many forms, as does hate.


I mean.. yeah. It depends on the monument.

Im sure you would topple over monuments giving praise and adoration to Hitler, Stalin, Hussein etc.

What the right doesn't understand is that we view the Confederacy on an equal plane with those heavy hitters.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 02:53 AM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
How is this even allowed to happen. Look at this.

Link

This is not about confederate statues. This is about precedent just like anything else. If people are allowed with no recourse to do this then other statues and monuments will be next. Maybe one of Reagan since he is a Republican. This should not be happening and I cannot believe that no one is arrested. There is no police presence!



“It needs to be removed,” Loan Tran, an organizer, said earlier Monday. “These Confederate statues in Durham, in North Carolina, all across the country.” There are similar monuments in several cities around North Carolina. Tran doesn’t want to see it anymore. “When I see a Confederate statue in downtown Durham, or really anywhere, it fills me with a lot of rage and frustration,” she said.

Organizers say tonight’s protest is a reaction to the events in Charlottesville this past weekend. “People can be mobilized and people are angry and when enough people are angry, we don’t have to look to politicians to sit around in air conditions and do nothing when we can do things ourselves,” said Takiyah Thompson, a protester.


Mobilized. So do you still think they are not busing these people in. Do you know who else did this? Yup. Nazis.....so if someone does not like something they can remove it. Even from public property.

Slippery slope here folks....


This is a GOOD thing!

The statues should never have been erected in the first place!

We are the UNITED States of America, we are THE UNION. The Union won the civil war.

The confederacy was a REBELLION. They were essentially DOMESTIC TERRORISTS.

Confederate generals killed thousands upon thousands of UNION soldiers.

The Union won. Thats it... period, end of story.

the Confederacy was as Un-Patriotic as you can get, they were against freedom and liberty and justice for all!

Why would we erect statues in the honor of terrorists and traitors?

Its fine keeping them in our history books, or putting them in museums, but why have statues and monuments in public display in their honor?

Does Germany have statues of Hitler?

No.. they dont...

How is this so hard to understand?



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 03:02 AM
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posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 03:08 AM
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originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
I do understand their view of hating that statue. It was wrong to tear it down illegally tho I agree.
But let me play devil's advocate for a minute.
What if it was a statue of someone holding a noose and it has been there for 100 years?


Why didn't they tear it down when Obama was President? They might have received a Presidential Medal of Valor, or something.

Oh I read that too fast and misunderstood.
I have no idea? Could it be due to the Alt-right, the KKK and the white supremacy rallies and them supporting Trump and want the statues to be left alone?


I'm just saying that if Black people have hated that statue for so long, why'd they wait until the Black President was out of office before ripping it down? Do it when Obama is there and they might be applauded by the President.

It could be due to the white supremacists fanning the flame since Trump won. Who knows?


Yeah...could be. So they do it out of anger TODAY, even though they've hated the statue for years. In that case, the law-breakers should THANK the White Supremacists, for giving them COURAGE.

Yeah that's one way of seeing it.


If you poke out one eye first perhaps.
There is no justifying this, other people paid to create these monument to honor their loved ones.
They don't belong to the cities to just tear down when they have a bad hair day.
They belong to future generations in perpetuity.


These animals couldn't even spell posterity.


You're right, probably couldn't tell posterity from their posterior.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 03:12 AM
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originally posted by: Painterz
Seems quite simple to me. People no longer wish to tolerate having to see symbols of slavery that are worshipped by white supremacists and nazis.

How about instead of blaming civil rights people and black folks and liberals and lefties, you try blaming the screaming violent diehard racists and nazis who made these symbols so thoroughly toxic?
its our history you moron, good or bad, whats next Jefferson and Washington ststurs? Jesus how about we all just put some dam horse blinders on so nobody can see anything.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 03:17 AM
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originally posted by: VictorVonDoom
Time to grab some sledgehammers and head on down to the Georgia Guidestones ...


Then do it? What are you waiting for? Or was this just something you say behind the safety of your computer screen?



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 03:20 AM
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If you have a belief , be prepared to back it up if needed. Life has always been that way....
Dont be like so many others . When engaged in a debate , by all means debate or yield to your opponent.


sweetheart, i've been discussing this over several pages. some questions are too esoteric to give a specific answer, because you can't strip all the context away. i'm sorry i can't chop it up fine enough to please you, but that is ilfe.



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