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Protesters pull down Confederate statue at old Durham County courthouse

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posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:00 AM
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originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Deaf Alien

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Deaf Alien

I see what you're getting at, but is there anything even remotely close to that in existence? A statue of man on horseback is not the same.

I mean if we are going to get into the nitty-gritty, there are plenty of statues out there with a more than dubious past. They are all worthy of the discussion but are they worthy of being torn down by angry mobs?

That's just it. Like Abysha said pick our battles. I don't condone tearing down ANY statue. But you gotta see where the anger is coming from.


How about a real-world example? Defiant Girl in New York. It's presence and direction have modified the interpretation of what the Charging Bull stands for. To some it is vibrant feminism, to others it is parasitic art and toxic feminista.

Some people decide they don't like it anymore and rip it out of the ground and break it.

(Bonus hypothetical: instead of breaking it to pieces, they instead plant it to the side of the Bull in a cooperative pose, or place it on a horn as if it were being gored.)

I see nothing hateful about the Defiant Girl so I dunno. Though I could see how someone would try to remove it after violent feminists and anti-feminists clash. But then again it's hypothetical.



That's where we differ. I'm in the camp that sees it as hateful, anti-capitalist, parasitic and toxic feminism. I'd love to see it go.

But I'm also just as happy to see this:



LOL. I like it.




posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:01 AM
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originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Weird how the article labeled them as protesters.

The entire act was against the law. A better label would be anarchists.


Yeah, I wonder whose idea it was to call them protestors instead of vandals. Probably the mayor, Bill Bell.

Look at this:


Bell also has been accused of being anti-preservation, as his company, UDI, gets many Durham contracts to demolish historic structures.
.en.wikipedia.org...(mayor)

Makes you wonder of those vandals were paid to do this!!!!!


Durham, NC is corrupt to the very core. I lived there for several years. Bill Bell has been Mayor of Durham since 2001. He endorsed and supported Mike Nifong for re-election even after he disgraced himself as DA during the Duke Lacrosse scandal. The crime rate in Durham was the highest in the state when I lived there, probably still is.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:07 AM
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a reply to: Krakatoa

Oh yeah, by that logic there should be Hitler statues all over Germany, Europe, and even here to teach people what to avoid. Why the hell are there statues of traitors to this nation all over in the first place? Many of the same people who like these statues also think Snowden and the like should be hung for treason. Makes no sense.

Onto the teaching tool for the next generation argument. Okay. Kid is walking with his parents, sees one of these statues, and inquires. Elders explain who it is and the wrongs they commited. Logical response from the kid is going to be, why do we have a statue of them in the middle of town then? Because its preserves our history? is a likely response. But isnt that what like, idk, museums are for?

No books are being burned, the internet still exists, museums exist to teach history for those interested. Statues just generally seem like they are erectedbfor praise. Dont all the dictators have em?

Also, i never even understand the admiration by some in the South for the confederacy and its leaders by the common man. Do people not realize it was a war started by the elites for the elites? Only rich people owned plantations or slaves or had any power derived from the economic health it provided. Average citizen had it just as hard before, during, and after - except for they had to and also chose to go die over it meanwhile the rich just sat back in luxury. Rant off.

Personally - i dont care either way. I am not offended by the statues and would not partake in this. But if some people are let em have at it. I would gladly support and partske in tearing down a statue of Reagan or Soros. Wouldnt some of you? To each their own.

I actually like statues and reading their placards. But i like reading and seeing them about people who actually did some net benefit to the world or local community - something interesting and impressive. Not just "this asshole tried to tear apart the country here."
edit on 15-8-2017 by lightedhype because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:07 AM
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originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

Any clue what "left for posterity" means?
It means there is something worth learning about the man whose statue you just pulled down.



This was left for posterity. In a museum.



Where it belongs.


Are you joking? Please tell me you're joking.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:14 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: fiverx313

Again, if this is some beacon of white supremacy, why has it been up for so long? Is a racist agenda the only thing the statue is known for? These are all subjective arguments to that main theme anyway.


white supremacy is a powerful force in this country. it's engrained in the bedrock, if that's not a mixed metaphor. jim crow wasn't that long ago, even the civil war wasn't that long ago. why now? because now is the time.


The people who tore down the statue had no authority, mandate, or regard for the law when doing so.


that's why it's called civil DISobedience...


From here, what's next; Lincoln? Grant? Washington and all attributed monuments?


now who's making leaps?



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:19 AM
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a reply to: fiverx313

White supremacy a powerful force? No, not even a blip on the socially acceptable radar.

Civil Disobedience? The MSM is calling them protestors. I prefer criminal, worthy of charges. Apparently the local PD also does not agree with me. The law however is clear. Given that there has been no widespread outrage, outside of ATS it seems, nor any arrests, nor any kind of law enforcement, is it really disobedience?

It's not a leap when it's next in progression. In this case military officers.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:25 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: fiverx313

White supremacy a powerful force? No, not even a blip on the socially acceptable radar.


hmm do you live in america here on this earth or are you from an alternate dimension?


Civil Disobedience? The MSM is calling them protestors. I prefer criminal, worthy of charges. Apparently the local PD also does not agree with me. The law however is clear. Given that there has been no widespread outrage, outside of ATS it seems, nor any arrests, nor any kind of law enforcement, is it really disobedience?


i'm going to say yes, because it was disobedient to do in the first place, even if charges aren't brought in the aftermath.


It's not a leap when it's next in progression. In this case military officers.


here, i'm going to have to ask you to show your work. this is starting to sound kind of like 'we can't let people get gay married because then they'll marry children, their dogs, and toasters'



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:30 AM
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originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

Any clue what "left for posterity" means?
It means there is something worth learning about the man whose statue you just pulled down.



This was left for posterity. In a museum.



Where it belongs.


Are you joking? Please tell me you're joking.


Why are holocaust artifacts funny to you?
edit on 15-8-2017 by Abysha because: grammar, bitches



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:31 AM
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originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: fiverx313

Again, if this is some beacon of white supremacy, why has it been up for so long? Is a racist agenda the only thing the statue is known for? These are all subjective arguments to that main theme anyway.


white supremacy is a powerful force in this country. it's engrained in the bedrock, if that's not a mixed metaphor. jim crow wasn't that long ago, even the civil war wasn't that long ago. why now? because now is the time.


The people who tore down the statue had no authority, mandate, or regard for the law when doing so.


that's why it's called civil DISobedience...


From here, what's next; Lincoln? Grant? Washington and all attributed monuments?


now who's making leaps?



Durham, NC has had an African American mayor, Bill Bell for 16 years. There is a large African American presence there. It is also considerably more liberal than the more rural areas. The probability of legally removing the statues in the city/county is quite high, if they had bothered to even try. Four of the seven sitting city council members are African American.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:31 AM
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Some of the mental gymnastics performed in this thread to justify the destruction of public property is astounding.

From the sounds of it the city has a leadership structure that would have helped push through any ordnance for removal of the statue, but apparently these anarchists decided that takes to long.

If you like to think you believe in the law, and are a productive member of society, yet here you stand defending anarchist behavior maybe you should stop and question your emotional reaction to this situation.

If they had gone through the proper procedures and the city said take it down and put it in a museum I would have disagreed but the city made the decision and I would abide by that decision.

Now a dangerous precedent has been set, I wonder what is next to be vandalized or destroyed, maybe next time it will be something you care about.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:34 AM
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a reply to: JinMI


These minor groups wouldn't get much coverage at all if Obama was President. Or Hillary, for that matter.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:34 AM
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posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:38 AM
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originally posted by: carewemust
These minor groups wouldn't get much coverage at all if Obama was President. Or Hillary, for that matter.


i agree! if trump hadn't been elected on a wave of racist dog-whistles, they probably wouldn't feel half so emboldened as to hold huge hate rallies with flaming torches and run people down with cars.

oh you meant the statue guys. yeah that's really important too e_e



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:43 AM
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a reply to: fiverx313




hmm do you live in america here on this earth or are you from an alternate dimension?


I assure you, I live in America. Can you show me where they have shown force? The very latest incident shows that they were met with a large number of counter-protesters.




i'm going to say yes, because it was disobedient to do in the first place, even if charges aren't brought in the aftermath.


Would you be as supportive if it was a church religious figure? That would also be disobedience.




here, i'm going to have to ask you to show your work. this is starting to sound kind of like 'we can't let people get gay married because then they'll marry children, their dogs, and toasters'


It's a simple game of connect the dots. Where did this start? A flag. From there? All of them. Then? NOLA statues that were voted on. Now? Mobs destroying a statue at will.

Unlike your leaps in logic from items being racist, there is actually a method and correlation here.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:48 AM
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originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

Any clue what "left for posterity" means?
It means there is something worth learning about the man whose statue you just pulled down.



This was left for posterity. In a museum.



Where it belongs.


Are you joking? Please tell me you're joking.


Why are holocaust artifacts funny to you?


Nice troll attempt. Please try to stop putting in my mouth.

Now, what IS a joke is your hidden suggestion we should put the Confederate States in a museum.

1) Museums are not prisons for our undesired past.

2) They exist as a place to collect things and exalt them.

3) History is SUPPOSED to be all around us.

4) To put things in a museum because many would rather not look at them only shows their significance in existence.

.Stop being such a Nazi.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 12:55 AM
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originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: JinMI


These minor groups wouldn't get much coverage at all if Obama was President. Or Hillary, for that matter.


Valid point. I shudder to think what kind of mob mentality may have overtaken in the previous weekends scenario. While not many would mind a few extremists groups taking eachother out, history says it never stops there.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:00 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
I assure you, I live in America. Can you show me where they have shown force? The very latest incident shows that they were met with a large number of counter-protesters.


we're talking about different manifestations of white supremacy now. this demonstration and these punks are like the head of a big, nasty pimple. the real disease is below the surface, permeating our society. police enforcement, racist real estate segregation, public schooling segregation based on economics, all reinforce it.


Would you be as supportive if it was a church religious figure? That would also be disobedience.


that's too vague a hypothetical to really answer. are you talking about the pope on the city courthouse lawn? or a ten commandments monument?


It's a simple game of connect the dots. Where did this start? A flag. From there? All of them. Then? NOLA statues that were voted on. Now? Mobs destroying a statue at will.

Unlike your leaps in logic from items being racist, there is actually a method and correlation here.


i just don't see it. you think this will go on to a statue of washington. that makes very little sense to me. i don't really know how else to say it.



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:09 AM
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a reply to: fiverx313




we're talking about different manifestations of white supremacy now. this demonstration and these punks are like the head of a big, nasty pimple. the real disease is below the surface, permeating our society. police enforcement, racist real estate segregation, public schooling segregation based on economics, all reinforce it.


Oh, a different than the overt racists. So back to the original topic, how exactly does toppling statues address this?




that's too vague a hypothetical to really answer. are you talking about the pope on the city courthouse lawn? or a ten commandments monument?


Does it really matter? I mean, destroying property we don't agree with becoming acceptable possibly becoming the norm, anyone with a dissenting thought wouldn't care.




i just don't see it. you think this will go on to a statue of washington. that makes very little sense to me. i don't really know how else to say it.


Easy pickings from the Wiki:

George Washington, the first President of the United States, held people in slavery for virtually all of his life. His will provided for freeing the enslaved people he held upon the death of his widow Martha Washington. In January 1801 Martha freed her husband's slaves, just over a year after his death.[1] However, while she lived, Martha did not emancipate any of the people she held, because she held only the lifetime use of them. When she died, on May 22, 1802, at the age of 70, all of those enslaved people went to the descendants of her first husband, Daniel Parke Custis.[2]


History is full of dirty little secrets, all one need to do is read. Make sense now?



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:12 AM
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originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

Any clue what "left for posterity" means?
It means there is something worth learning about the man whose statue you just pulled down.



This was left for posterity. In a museum.



Where it belongs.


Are you joking? Please tell me you're joking.


Why are holocaust artifacts funny to you?


Nice troll attempt. Please try to stop putting in my mouth.

Now, what IS a joke is your hidden suggestion we should put the Confederate States in a museum.

1) Museums are not prisons for our undesired past.

2) They exist as a place to collect things and exalt them.

3) History is SUPPOSED to be all around us.

4) To put things in a museum because many would rather not look at them only shows their significance in existence.

.Stop being such a Nazi.


Then why aren't swastikas still displayed in Berlin?



posted on Aug, 15 2017 @ 01:22 AM
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originally posted by: JinMI
Oh, a different than the overt racists. So back to the original topic, how exactly does toppling statues address this


because the government shouldn't endorse racism, because that is part of the overall problem.


Does it really matter? I mean, destroying property we don't agree with becoming acceptable possibly becoming the norm, anyone with a dissenting thought wouldn't care


it does really matter. you can't strip these questions of all context, because what is going on in our society is directly relevant.


Easy pickings from the Wiki:

George Washington, the first President of the United States, held people in slavery for virtually all of his life. His will provided for freeing the enslaved people he held upon the death of his widow Martha Washington. In January 1801 Martha freed her husband's slaves, just over a year after his death.[1] However, while she lived, Martha did not emancipate any of the people she held, because she held only the lifetime use of them. When she died, on May 22, 1802, at the age of 70, all of those enslaved people went to the descendants of her first husband, Daniel Parke Custis.[2]


History is full of dirty little secrets, all one need to do is read. Make sense now?


i did know that, actually. luckily old george actually WAS a president, so he's probably safe from the statue-pullers for now despite his problematic past.

i feel like you're just endlessly circling a point of some kind but i'm just mystified as to what it is.



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