Can we please stop equating the KKK, Neo-Nazis, White Supremists to Black Lives Matter

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo
YOne would disband if legal justice was served.

The other would disband is THEIR justice was served, which just so happens to be genocide.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: GeechQuestInfo

The problem is BLM has engaged in tremendous amounts of violence; from beating people to destroying property, to having self proclaimed members shoot police officers.

So why shouldn't they be treated as an extremists group?

Your argument seems to be that they were founded on just principals.

But the truth is they were founded on a lie.

The most comprehensive study on police shootings, down by a bla,ck man at Harvard that expected to find that blacks were shot at higher numbers, proves that in fact unarmed whites are more likely to be shot by the police.

www.washingtontimes.com...

So they are founded on a lie, and they commit violent acts.

They are a hate group.

Almost like the media has lied to the US "minority community".

Almost like there is a concerted effort for this silliness of color to keep coming up.

Wonder if this is a good reason to NOT have 5 large corps own almost everything we see, hear and read.

originally posted by: seasonal
Wonder if this is a good reason to NOT have 5 large corps own almost everything we see, hear and read.

Yes, it is. I've been thinking of starting a thread detailing which mega-corporations need to broken up, and why. The media corporations would easily be at the top of the list.

As for BLM, the intentions of its founders are really beside the point. BLM as it operates today is a hate-based black supremacy group, and yes it is equivalent to the KKK, Neo-Nazis, etc, both in terms of tactics, and the sort of people who join such groups.

originally posted by: seasonal
Almost like the media has lied to the US "minority community".

Almost like there is a concerted effort for this silliness of color to keep coming up.

Wonder if this is a good reason to NOT have 5 large corps own almost everything we see, hear and read.

injustice against minorities isn't just being shot by the police. it's communities being overpoliced, people being harassed, people being locked up for months and years because they can't afford to pay a bull# parking ticket.

when you try to reduce all the racism in the united states to one statistic, dust off your hands, and shoo everyone away with a 'nothing to see here', you make it clear that not only do you not have any personal knowledge of what minorities in the US are going through, you actively do not want to know.

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo
I've seen this comparison so much over the weekend.

The basic text would read "Ya the _____________ (insert your Alt-right hate group) are bad and racist, but so is Black Lives Matter. BLM hates just as much as _____________".

It's tiresome to see.

BLM was born out of injustices to African American's in our legal system. This isn't me taking sides (each case is different), but overall had we have seen some sort of justice for African Americans slain unjustly, the BLM movement would have never started. If a handful of cops would have been found guilty of ANYTHING, BLM would have never started.

FYI: No need to even list which cases cops should/shouldn't have been prosecuted in. We all know that cops have been let off in situations where the average American would have been serving time.

My point is if you want BLM to "go away", start by showing justice for African American citizens who have been wrongly slain by the police.

You know how to make the KKK, Neo-Nazi, White Supremist groups "go away"?

YOU'D HAVE TO ERRADICATE EVERY RACE/ETHNICITY OTHER THAN WHITE!

So please, stop comparing the two. They're not even close to similar, and they're ideologies couldn't be further from the same.

You look like a fool to do so. No matter your condemnation for BLM (right or wrong) they are NOWHERE close to the KKK, Neo-Nazi, White Supremist groups who were in VA over the weekend.

One would disband if legal justice was served.

The other would disband is THEIR justice was served, which just so happens to be genocide.

PFFFT, when you have a certain ethnic group hating white people for any and all reasons, plus the knock out games done by many blacks through out the country, blocking highways and preventing people from getting home, going to work, or getting there child to the hospital caused by a MASSIVE amount of black people with blm crap. Nah, not hateful at all. Please, tell me the last time a white supremacy group has done any of that?

a reply to: 4N0M4LY

Wait a second, you're really tying to make this a pissing contest about violent & hateful rhetoric when dealing with the KKK and Nazis?

a reply to: seasonal

Ironically, I somewhat agree with you, though not for the reason you may think. Right before the "Black Lives Matter Movement" started, there were 2 other pro-justice movements. One was the "Hands up, don't shoot" movement that came after the Michael Brown killing in Ferguson, and the other was the "I can't breathe" movement that came after the Eric Garner killing.

Celebrities were highly involved in those movements, with many professional athletes wearing "I Can't Breathe" shirts in support of the movement (this is just one of many such sources about it). But they never got anywhere near as large or infamous as the offshoot movement with a controversial name. I wonder why?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

The only way this gets solved is with the truth, dynamic leadership and cooperation not seen since the 1950's and 1960's. As of now the movement is lacking all 3.

originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: seasonal
Almost like the media has lied to the US "minority community".

Almost like there is a concerted effort for this silliness of color to keep coming up.

Wonder if this is a good reason to NOT have 5 large corps own almost everything we see, hear and read.

injustice against minorities isn't just being shot by the police. it's communities being overpoliced, people being harassed, people being locked up for months and years because they can't afford to pay a bull# parking ticket.

when you try to reduce all the racism in the united states to one statistic, dust off your hands, and shoo everyone away with a 'nothing to see here', you make it clear that not only do you not have any personal knowledge of what minorities in the US are going through, you actively do not want to know.

Over policing?

Perhaps because these communities have more violent crime. In areas like Baltimore where they have pulled back a police presence, violent crime has risen dramatically.

And I am so tired of this idea that people have no idea what minorities go through. They are not monolithic; believe it or not minorities are individuals like everyone else, and all of their experience are varied and individual.

The idea of privilege is very complicated. On one hand, its no doubt true that for some law enforcement areas, being black is a disadvantage.

But they are not even close to the most disadvantaged group. As a group, men are treated far more harshly in all areas of the legal system than women. Yet the same identity politic pushing people that celebrate BLM also say man are privileged over women, so how can that be?

Minorities are also privileged in ways; for example, are there any college course about how evil black or brown people are? yet almost every university will spout off about the evils of whiteness.

You are the one who is simplistically breaking down race in one category, law enforcement, and ignoring how complicated a matter it really is.

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo
It's tiresome to see.

The truth sometimes does get tiresome, but it often needs repeated. I'm not necessarily saying that the motivations of the two ideologies are based on the same thing, but often enough, the end results of their rhetoric and actions are eerily similar.

BLM was born out of injustices to African American's in our legal system.

Actually, BLM was started over the Martin/Zimmerman confrontation--a confrontation that, while it resulted in the death of Martin, was legally justified (something that many people in BLM still refuse to accept). And to say, "If a handful of cops would have been found guilty of ANYTHING, BLM would have never started," is basically saying that, even if these officers aren't guilty of anything criminal, they should be found guilty or else groups like BLM will sprout up and cause problems in the future.

You can not hold the justice system hostage, and that's what much of BLM has come to.

One would disband if legal justice was served.

Justice IS served in the vast majority of cases--just because BLM is unhappy with it, doesn't mean it's not justice. I just had to watch the Cincinnati BLM group throw hissy fits because of the Ray Tensing trial resulted in another jury deadlock (mistrial). Two times the prosecution couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Tensing murdered Sam Dubose, yet there they were, claiming that justice wasn't served because there was no finding of guilty. They were screaming for a third trial, but DA Deters rightfully determined that a third trial wasn't warranted.

"Justice" is not a subjective term, yet BLM has turned it into one, re-defining it as "the outcome, and only the outcome, that we expect."

So, to your point, sure, their ideologies may differ, but often times, the tactics of bullying, engaging in screaming matches, violence, and politicized BS run on congruent paths. I had to make this point in another thread as well, but I'll say it here, too: It's not about what the movement's intentions were when they started, it's where they are at now.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: 4N0M4LY

Wait a second, you're really tying to make this a pissing contest about violent & hateful rhetoric when dealing with the KKK and Nazis?

a reply to: seasonal

Ironically, I somewhat agree with you, though not for the reason you may think. Right before the "Black Lives Matter Movement" started, there were 2 other pro-justice movements. One was the "Hands up, don't shoot" movement that came after the Michael Brown killing in Ferguson, and the other was the "I can't breathe" movement that came after the Eric Garner killing.

Celebrities were highly involved in those movements, with many professional athletes wearing "I Can't Breathe" shirts in support of the movement (this is just one of many such sources about it). But they never got anywhere near as large or infamous as the offshoot movement with a controversial name. I wonder why?

Violence is violence. You can name it what you want. Doesn't make it right. Left or Right/ Black or White. Violence wears no skin color and is affiliated with every group. No one is immune.

a reply to: Grambler

But as far as which group is more dangerous and more influential today, its not even close that its BLM>

I don't know why people say that. Be honest, have you actually looked at any current KKK websites? Their party platforms read almost verbatim with the standard GOP talking points. Just do a quick google search for "kkk party platform" to see what I mean. I'm looking at the party platform at one of their most obvious URLs ever (can't link to hate sites though), and here are the first 7 points on it:

[quote removed....no source]
Any of this sound familiar? Other than the 6th one (which is surprising to me), you'd think it was a standard GOP platform.

a reply to: 4N0M4LY

Where did I say violence was ok? Or that anyone was immune or whatever the point is that you're trying to make? As I've openly stated since I got on ATS, I'm a pacifist so I'm not ok with the violence or threats from either side. But I still think it's absurd to compare Nazis & the KKK to BLM.

Other BLM activists will openly call out and refute the violent ones, even if the media doesn't show that (do the search yourself). But the violent Nazis and Klansmen were literally following S.O.P.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Grambler

But as far as which group is more dangerous and more influential today, its not even close that its BLM>

I don't know why people say that. Be honest, have you actually looked at any current KKK websites? Their party platforms read almost verbatim with the standard GOP talking points. Just do a quick google search for "kkk party platform" to see what I mean. I'm looking at the party platform at one of their most obvious URLs ever (can't link to hate sites though), and here are the first 7 points on it:

[snipped]

Any of this sound familiar? Other than the 6th one (which is surprising to me), you'd think it was a standard GOP platform.

I have tons of problems with Republican leadership.

But your comment here is indicative of the problems with BLM.

Show me republican leadership harping on how this was founded as a "white nation". That is ridiculous and no where in their platform.

This list does not prove the KKK has political power; it just shows that they hold some of the same positions that republicans do. That in no way proves that Republicans are bad for holding these positions.

And whats your point here?

Look at how many of those positions Bernie was for.

Ending trade treaties, environmental laws, etc. So he was close to a KKK member, right?

This is ludicrous. Its an attempt by you to demonize anyone who holds any of these positions as somehow connected to the KKK.

So I can't wait for you to start calling out environmentalists for being white supremacists.

a reply to: Grambler

Reread your post that I replied to. I literally only replied to the part where you said "But as far as which group is more dangerous and more influential today". Note the "and more influential today" part.

There are politicians in damn near every municipality that are echoing the points that coincidentally come directly from the KKK's party platform. I'm not just talking about rhetoric, I'm talking about actual policies. If my goal was to change the narrative to get people to implement my ideologies, it doesn't matter if they directly credit me or not. It doesn't even matter if they know the policies originally came from me. As long as politicians all over the country begin pushing my policies, I win. ETA: Isn't that the whole point in secret societies and "shadow" organizations?

You're too smart to act like you don't know how manipulation works. I never said the people who pushed those policies were Klansmen. I'm saying that the modern Klan is far more influential than BLM because they've managed to get far more people from far more demographics to buy into some of their stated goals whether they know it or not. If you actually look up their party platform instead of waiting for me to post more of it, you'll see exactly what I mean.

Surely you've heard the phrase "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was to convince the world he doesn't exist". They've convinced people that they're irrelevant now, which has gotten people to ignore their actual policies and the goals they've literally placed on their websites. ETA: And the 7 that I listed were literally just the first 7 on the platform. It goes much deeper than that, which you'd see if you looked.

originally posted by: GeechQuestInfo

I'm just trying to point out that comparing BLM to the opposition (KKK, Neo-Nazi, etc....). Is comparing apples to cyanide. It's ridiculous to do so, but my god have some members pretzels themselves into that juxtaposition.

Fun Fact: Apple seeds contain cyanide. Grind up and eat about 200 apple seeds for a fatal dose.

The more you know ...

a reply to: enlightenedservant

The mistake here is your interpretation of the word influential.

Just because a party has policies that some bad group like doesn't mean the bad group influenced that party.

You are a very smart person, i know you know this, but you are feigning ignorance.

For example, I know a guy at the bar pushed for almost all of the policies Obama did. So this guy at the bar is super influential right?

Of course not.

You are attempting to demonize the positions that you listed by claiming that people that believe them were somehow influenced by the KKK.

That is ridiculous.

So if I am for say environmental regulations, I am being influenced by the KKK?

If I am for American workers first, I am being influenced by the KKK?

Do you see how dumb this sounds?

Conversely, I could put up Al qaeda's platform, and when it says they are against the US regime change wars I can say anyone against that is being influenced by AQ.

I am quite frankly very disappointed that you would resort to such a ridiculous tactic.

Oh and eta:

I guess you are against all of the positions outlined, or you are helping the KKK win right? So no environmentalism, you are for the big trade treaties etc.

originally posted by: TheLotLizard


The difference between BLM and KKK is that at least the KKK doesn't rob and murder their own race.

I beg to differ sir...history is not on your side.

a reply to: Grambler

It only sounds dumb because you're purposely ignoring most of the points. Want to know what numbers 8-13 are on that KKK platform?

[snipped]

I could keep going but I think anyone who's read this gets the point. Most of their points "coincidentally" read word for word the same as many state & local GOP platforms. Why don't you just admit that you don't know what the KKK actually stands for?

Also, the KKK has existed since roughly 1865. They and their party platforms have existed long before any of us were alive. So it's pretty disingenuous of you to act like they've simply adopted the commonly popular narratives. They've clearly helped shaped many of them, but you seem unwilling to accept that. Or do you think that all of the Klansmen and their families from the 1960s & 70s simply stopped believing in their goals? It's almost as if you think they said "oh screw it, we lost once our beloved segregation & miscegenation laws were overturned, so we should abandon our goals and accept integration".

a reply to: GeechQuestInfo

I like the point youre making.

The problem is that we tend to take the most radical elements within a group and use them to denounce everyone, Micah Johnson, Yusra Khogali talking about wiping out the White Race etc.

Theres no shortage of propaganda on both sides.

The rally in Virginia was called "Unite the Right" but the media turned that into a White Nationalist/KKK/Neo-Nazi gathering...

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I am sorry I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

You are unresponsive to what I am saying.

So to you, the KKK has influenced all politicians that want environmental protections, to end the federal reserve, or to stop trade deals?

Unbelievable.

But fine.

1. We want freedom. We want the power to practice self-determination, and to determine the destiny of our community and THE BLACK NATION.

Sounds like dem talking points wanting justice for blacks.

2. We want full employment for our people and we demand the dignity to do for ourselves what we have begged the white man to do for us.


We believe further in: POWER IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE! WEALTH IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE! ARMS IN THE HANDS OF THE PEOPLE!

Spreading wealth? Dem talking point.

3. We want tax exemption and an end to robbery of THE BLACK NATION by the CAPITALIST. We want an end to the capitalistic domination of Africa in all of its forms: imperialism, criminal settler colonialism, neo-colonialism, racism, sexism, zionism, Apartheid and artificial borders.

Striving against capitalism? Is that Bernie and the rest of the dems?

4. We want decent housing, fit for shelter of human beings, free health-care (preventive and maintenance). We want an end to the trafficking of drugs and to the biological and chemical warfare targeted at our people. We believe since the white landlords will not give decent housing and quality health care to our Black Community, the he housing, the land, the social, political and economic institutions should be made into independent UUAMAA New African Communal/Cooperatives so that our community, with government reparations and aid (until we can do for ourselves) can build and make drug free, decent housing with health facilities for our people.

Free health care? End war on drugs? More dem talking points.

5. We want education for our people that exposes the true nature of this devilish and decadent American society. We want education that teaches us our true history/herstory and our role in the present day society. We believe in an educational system that will give our people a knowledge of self. If we do not have knowledge of self and of our position in society and the world, then we have little chance to properly relate to anything else.

Idenity politic academia? Sounds like the dems to me again.

6. We want all Black Men and Black Women to be exempt from military service.

We believe that Black People should not be forced to fight in the military service to defend a racist government that holds us captive and does not protect us. We will not fight and kill other people of color in the world who, like Black People, are being victimized by the white racist government of America. We will protect ourselves from the force and violence of the racist police and the racist military, by any means necessary.

Against war? Criticizing police? More dem policies.

7. We want an immediate end to POLICE HARRASSMENT, BRUTALITY and MURDER of Black People. We want an end to Black-on-Black violence, snitching, cooperation and collaboration with the oppressor.

Ditto.

8. We want freedom for all Black Men and Black Women held in international, military, federal, state, county, city jails and prisons.

We believe that all Black People and people of color should be released from the many jails and prisons because they have not received a fair and impartial trial. Released means released to the lawful authorities of the Black Nation.

Calling legal sytem unjust. More dem talking points.

9. We want all Black People when brought to trial to be tried in a court by a jury of their peer group or people from their Black Communities, as defined by white law of the Constitution of the United States.

Ditto.

10. WE DEMAND AN END TO THE RACIST DEATH PENALTY AS IT IS APPLIED TO BLACK AND OPPRESSED PEOPLE IN AMERICA. WE DEMAND FREEDOM FOR ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS OF THE BLACK RED AND BROWN NATION!

Anti death penalty? You guessed it, dem policy.

www.freerepublic.com...

So you admit black racists have heavily influenced the democratic party.