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Gov. McAuliffee: You Are not Welcome

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posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko


Peoples attitudes on ATS lately go way past just making it known that the law allows for Nazis to have a rally. You yourself used a famous anti-Nazi quote in support of Nazis, as if we are all in danger if Nazis are prevented from spreading their hate.


Maybe it's because we find it disturbing that so many are justifying the wholesale curtailing of free speech because they don't like that speech?

For one thing, you are simply assuming that allowing these people to hold their rally will equate to a sudden rash of it spreading like wildfire across the nation and becoming a common thing.


I'm not talking about banning any type of speech. It just seems to me a lot of people are making excuses for the current Nazism because of their political leanings. And their hate for the left.

Until and unless they start a widespread campaign to threaten private property and persons, they are no more or less odious than any of those other groups I mentioned.


Their whole ideology is based on taking human rights and private property away from a significant portion of the population. I'd say that qualifies.

And this isn't some small isolated group of people like everyone keeps saying. The type of people we see here have been here this entire time. Every person you see standing there screaming white power represents thousands of other people who don't have the need or want to make those feelings public just yet.

I grew up around it. Heck, my cousin met her husband at a KKK rally. There are A LOT more of these idiots than people want to admit. And they feel emboldened now, because they see an ally in what Trump represents. Whether he really represents them or not.

And this will get worse before it gets better. Just go on over to stormfront and read. The white nationalists believe they are in the midst of a renaissance, thanks to the current political climate.

Afraid this will spread?

It's already spread. And a lot of people are just waiting for the sign. I fear we'll see a lot more in the coming days.




posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: TobyFlenderson

And I was following your advise by putting a historical context to one of the popular White Nationalist slogans. I saw a video of them chanting Blood and Soil, so I looked it up.

I guess that the White Nationalists think that since prior occupants (1st People) were forced out of some areas and genocided in other areas that that somehow shows the favor of some deity for the genociders. As if some deity said, "Oh, well done! I grant you this land in perpetuity. Kill these, enslave those, and make America great."

If such a deity exists, then Americans should resist him. If such a deity does not exist then ... education of History should suffice.


edit on 13-8-2017 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: TobyFlenderson
a reply to: Lucidparadox


IMHO, instead of trying to out-protest and shout down the Nazis, they should be engaged in debate. Only then will the true idiocy of their historically inaccurate and ineffective theories come to light.


Hitler said that had the Nazis met enough resistance on the streets in the 1920s and very early 1930s, he would never have got into power. Their historically inaccurate and ineffective theories were no hindrance.

Remember, Nazism doesn't start with death camps.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
... but why does a resident of ohio have the right to freedom of speech over what is a local issue anyways??


Because the Constitution.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:44 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Pretty much and it's disgusting how easily people are falling into this trap.

Start with the group no one can sympathize with. If they can get us all to agree to curtail speech for them, well the camel has his nose in the tent now doesn't he? Which groups gets their speech curtailed next, and and after that, who doesn't get to speak out anymore?

Where does it end?

Because right now the law is pretty ironclad. We all get to speak about political speech especially, but the minute you take away the right to political speech for one group on the grounds that it's hateful ... how quickly does the next group lose that right for the same reason, and how quickly do *you* turn around one day and discover that you can no longer talk about anything the government does not allow you to?



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: pthena

Exactly my point. These meatheads are using a chant that is just nonsensical based upon history. That issue needs to be pointed out to them in a way that allows discourse so that the uneducated followers of such a theory can understand the folly of their belief.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
what gov't were they petitioning? it was a local gov't that had the authority, the charlottesville gov't to be exact.
that is not a part of a ohio resident's government!!!



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: underwerks

I repeat then ... why aren't you worried about the communists?

Their history of lack of respect for private persons and property is equally bad, and they also hold their rallies and marches and openly endorse political candidates.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:47 PM
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Going back to the original point.

Content and political perspective aside, has anyone else noticed the massive difference between the governor's rhetorical style and Donald Trump's?

Listen to both reponses one after the other.






posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
what gov't were they petitioning? it was a local gov't that had the authority, the charlottesville gov't to be exact.
that is not a part of a ohio resident's government!!!



I fail to see the part of the 1st that says you can only petition your direct government.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: dawnstar

what gov't were they petitioning?


The right to freely assemble has been long upheld in Supreme Court rulings.


it was a local gov't that had the authority, the charlottesville gov't to be exact.
that is not a part of a ohio resident's government!!!


It's the same principal used by the NAACP when northerners went to fight against Jim Crow laws in the south.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: underwerks

Do you think you should be able to talk about pot legalization in a state that doesn't have it legalized?


Yes. But if the basis for pot legalization rested on the idea of exterminating an entire race of people and spreading that ideology along with it I might not feel the same.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:50 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

We disagree on quite a few things, but I agree with you probably a lot more than not.

Yet here we are discussing agreeing, disagreeing. This should be normal. It doesn't apear to be anymore.

I want to say if these idiots decide to hold their vile rally in your town I would send or drive myself with some puppets to protest these ideas. People need to get that keeping calm and just exposing their stupid beliefs is enough. Make fun of them peacefully. Hopefully the cops will be better prepared if they get violent when their attempt to stir up the public fails.

That has to be explained to the counter protest before hand.

They are not here for the 1st amendment they are here to incite violence to have it taken away.


Sadly many churches were out there protesting the nazis and got tied up in violence.
edit on 13-8-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:50 PM
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a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese

I understand your motivations but I think your analogy is wrong. First, I'm not sure why we anyone would ever cite Hitler to boost their argument. Second, we are in a considerable different situation than were the folks in Post WWI Germany. Third, the Nazis at that time were not just protest marching, they were committing many violent acts and crimes and met little to no resistance. Lastly, in the US the Nazis have a constitutionally protected right to protest and march.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:55 PM
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originally posted by: RomeByFire
Just goes to show. People want to see those Nazi flags, Nazi salutes, and Nazi chants on American streets.


No, it means we are consistent in supporting the First Amendment for all US Citizens no matter how disgusting or regressive what they want to say is. They still have a right to say it.

You do not have a right to not be offended.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:56 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Personally, I think given recent history of protesting and counter-protesting in this country, the smartest thing to have done would have been to simply shun them when they came to town. They weren't going to change anything, but they would have looked pretty stupid marching around expecting a problem and attention that never materialized.

It would likely have been the safest thing too.

Then, sure, they might have caused a riot on their own, but that would then have been squarely on them, and everyone would have had nowhere else to point.

But now, there is all kinds of blame to go around, and no one can clearly point at anyone except across the same ideological divide. There are no good guys here at all, just people trying to say that free speech still needs to be upheld, even for the scum or else none of us is free.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:58 PM
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a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese

Yes. Trump has surrounded himself with alt-right and Nazis. He must therefore use the moral equivalency argument.

An Ohio alt-righter killed an innocent Virginia resident in premeditated violence.

Team Trump is on the alt-right side. So equivalency.
The Governor is not, so reality.

And David Duke has his reality via tweet:


I would recommend you take a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you in the presidency, not radical leftists. twitter.com...

11:03 AM - Aug 12, 2017


edit on 13-8-2017 by pthena because: format



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
White supremacy is vile and disgusting. The people exercising their rights are cowardly morons hiding behind the constitution they wish to destroy.

The answer to them rather than take away the right of free speech is to keep saying how vile, disgusting, and cowardly these savage monsters are with our free speech. It's to protest them peacefully if they come to your town. Make up giant puppets showing hideous creatures and make fun of them with witty little park theater presentations.

They want you to react violently and take away free speech. This is their goal. Their goal is not to exercise their free speech it is to incite violence for their cause.

Don't be fooled into playing. Protest their vile ideas with thought and peace and they will disolve.

Throw bottles at them and watch them grow. Watch your free speech get cotrolled.


That was really well said.



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 01:00 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: underwerks

Do you think you should be able to talk about pot legalization in a state that doesn't have it legalized?


Yes. But if the basis for pot legalization rested on the idea of exterminating an entire race of people and spreading that ideology along with it I might not feel the same.


fair enough.

So you're "on the fence" or are you FOR thought police?



posted on Aug, 13 2017 @ 01:06 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko




Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

what was their grievance, and just which segment of government had the authority to address it???
look while you guys are stuck over these freedom of speech issues and ideological differences, which is getting no where..
you are not addressing the main issue...
local gov'ts are being overwhelmed whenever something locally happens, the news of it spreads across the country like wildfire and the various organized groups see the event as an oportunity to promote their agenda on the worldwide stage and flock into the city or town.. be it blm or white nationalists or who ever... the locals, they have a stake in their community, they have to live there, they might not see eye to eye with everyone, but hey, they are a community...
they might not agree with the people on the other side of the line but one of them could very well be the neighbor that lent them their weed eater last week when theirs died. but when you bring in hundreds of people from the outside who don't have those ties, well, why should they care??
people who live in ohio shouldn't have a say when it comes to what a town council decides in virginia. they only have a say in what the federal gov't decides, what their own state gov't decides, what their own local gov't says...

so, I have to question their right to freedom of speech in this case, since it seems to threaten the communities stability and their right to govern their community as they view fit.



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