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Astral Projection/Self-brainwashing?

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posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 03:12 PM
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I have no doubt in my mind that lucid dreaming is indeed possible, perhaps some of you may have experienced it yourselves.

For those who do not know, a lucid dream is a dream where at some point you become aware that you are dreaming and can take some control of it.

Does this seem highy credible to you as well?

Last week i bought a book called Mastering Astral Projection by Robert Bruce. By reading this guide you should be able to project in 90 days as long as you follow the instructions properly. In the introduction it states that you must eat sleep and breathe astral projection to achieve your goal. One Instruction in the guide concerns the learning by heart of certain 'affirmations' as he calls them and you should repeat these to yourself during the day. Here is an example of one

"I am a spirit in a body capable of experiencing dimensions beyond existence. I have the ability to seperate from my body, return safely and remember."

Messages like these could easily become normal subconscious thoughts and when combined with physical(actual) exercises and the great desire of the reader to project- and ALSO combined with the almost certain truth of lucid dreaming seems to me like your desire to project manifests itself in Lucid dreaming. You make yourself believe that you are projecting when really you are controlling a dream, a lucid dream.

I hope i'm wrong otherwise i wasted some serious moolah, but makes you think whether its just a self-brainwashing exercise dont it.

What do you think?

-JoeyC




posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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The same as if you become blindly devoted to anything in any book, holy or otherwise, then it would seem that the terminolgy that would apply in this case would be more "Bruce Brainwashing" than "Self Brainwashing".

See you in an astral realm some time?



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 07:30 PM
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Once, as a child, I was dreaming that I was cornered by a number of T rex's in a tree, when I suddenly realized that I must be dreaming. I then had unlimited powers and used a stick to kill the T rex's, and flew around fixing up the other disasters that had occured previous to my lucidity. Alas, it never happened since.
Re: astral projection, my fiance had an OBE while in hospital one day last summer that was possibly the single most convincing paranormal event I have witnessed. I have seen lots of paranormal things, but this one was the most amazing. There is no explaining it for me. Others have the luxury of calling me delusional, a liar, or just the victim of a fabricated memory. I wrote the details of it the night it happened and have not got the luxury of such options, so I am left with the clear, vivid memory of an inexplicable event that I will never forget. Only myself and the person she visited know for sure what happened that day, since my fiance has short term memory damage, and does not remember it herself...........I am very disappointed about that.



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 08:52 PM
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Probably the most important things to remember about astral travel is that (1) not everyone can do it, and (2) how to do it is different for everyone that can.

I am not familliar with the book you mention, but from the quote you posted, it seems like this is yet another book trying to cash in on the recent mainstream interest in alternative religion. First of all, if the man could truly travel astrally, he would know that the astral plane is simply a different plane of existence, not a dimension beyond existence. The astral world is just as tangible to the inhabitants there as our world is to us. It's not a matter of travelling between dimensions, but rather just travelling to another plane of existence. Dimensions make up our physical world (1D, 2D, 3D, etc), planes of existence are different realms of existence that all exist within the dimensions we know. Time and space may work differently in another realm of existence, but they still exist. I have always called the astral plane the "Otherworld," since it's just as real, but the realm of spirits, and not of corporeal entities. Human flesh does not exist there, but our spirits do.

Honestly, my best advice if you want to go astral is to pick the brains of people that have been able to achieve astral travel. Many of them are willing to help someone else learn how. For me, it's always been a result of deep meditation, in which I find myself actually able to leave my body, and travel into the astral.

More than anything, achieving astral travel is learned through trial and error. You have to find what method works for you. I can show you the door, but you have to figure out how to walk through it.



posted on Feb, 8 2005 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by JoeyC
I have no doubt in my mind that lucid dreaming is indeed possible, perhaps some of you may have experienced it yourselves.


I moderate a time travel forum. We have a few members that state they have astrally traveled using relaxation, crystal, or HDR techniques.

Is it real? It's hard to say. They seem believable and willing to talk about their experiences. They post what they have seen about the future and the past.

They are not like a John Titor or other time travelers who claim to have physically time traveled and have come from the future or past. With them you can at least ask for pictures of their "time machine!"

Can I prove they are telling the truth? I really can't. I keep an open mind. But I chat with them and none of them seem to be hoaxers or out to trick anyone. They come from many walks of life.

I've also wondered if it is a brainwashing issue or a desire within themselves to believe that they have experienced time travel or OBE. I will tell you that each of them are firm in their belief that they have seen the future or past.

I have not read, but have have heard much about the book you are talking about. I know of two persons that claim they have astrally projected who highly recommend that book.

Good luck in your search. There are those that truly believe, and those that think it's a myth. I keep an open mind until I see concrete proof either way.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 01:47 PM
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Obsidian 468:

Did you discover how to project yourself? did you use intructions from other websites? Did you read any books on astral projection?

It sounds like you discovered it for yourself whilst in a deep meditation session, did you use any websites/books to learn how to meditate?

thanks- JoeyC



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
See you in an astral realm some time?


Is that a real invitation?



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 02:38 PM
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With all accompanying self-doubt, not necessarily skepticism, as expressed by the question mark.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 02:57 PM
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Those that can astral project were born that able. No one else can do it. But if someone's astral projection makes you think that you once (or more than once) astral projected, then they are just fooling you.

Those that astral project will pay a price alright because they were born hellbound for good reason. These people who do astral project never tell you what all their astral body can do because then you would see that they are evil beings.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by Sign Related 2
These people who do astral project never tell you what all their astral body can do because then you would see that they are evil beings.



How did you find this out, Sign Related 2?

There is another light topic about about bad past experience with certain hair colors. Have you had bad experience with an astral projector?



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 03:18 PM
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I have never heard about any bad experiences for projectors- other than sleep paralysis. What have you heard sign related 2?

There are 2 main authors who write books on Astral Projection who are Robert Bruce and Robert A. Monroe. I know Robert Bruce takes his writing very seriously and has a number of forums running on astral projection (including one especially for helping those with his MAP book) and he has been writing techniques on the net for nearly 10 years so he's about as credible as you're going to get.

Il get back to you on whether his techiques are genuine when im a bit further on in the book.

Respect- JoeyC

[edit on 9-2-2005 by JoeyC]



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar

Originally posted by Sign Related 2
These people who do astral project never tell you what all their astral body can do because then you would see that they are evil beings.



How did you find this out, Sign Related 2?

There is another light topic about about bad past experience with certain hair colors. Have you had bad experience with an astral projector?


I have two sources: 1. Some of them themselves. (includes my parents--Yes, I know first hand of what all those who can astral project can do--There was a reply to a post on here somewhere a while back where I explain much of what else an astral body can do--To tell you the truth, I'm still having certain bad experiences). 2. The General (known within the gospels as "the master of the house").



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 04:03 PM
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well.....I am just chuckleing at folks with the OOBE ability being 'evil' l


All the Monks, and enlightened beings who do this are NOT evil...........


I am SURE 'some' folks who do this COULD be evil, as in selling theyre souls for the ability. Like attracts like I believe, and if your a dark energy being you will travel in the lower realms. But saying ALL beings with this ability are evil in nature is ridiculous, that means your saying Buddah, Jesus Christ and Babaji were evil beings........and thats just NOT true.

Folks who work on this ability have to keep theyre bodies free from impurities, and their minds clear of impure thoughts. They need to meditate and get to know themselves deeply in a very Spiritual way, so saying they are ALL Evil is a very uninformed statement, like a child claiming a boogeyman is under the bed. Keeping yourself in this frame of mind will keep you from gaining this ability.........NOT all folks who can do this were born this way, they LEARNED it during theyre lifetime.
In Robert Monroe's books on OOBE, its stated he didnt gain this ability untill way into his 50's.

This BRAINWASHING thread seams to me a way for a VERY uniformed person to make themselves feel BETTER about not having this gift, and then in ignorance points a finger at those who can, calling them Evil. ( Nazi's did this to)
That is the EXACT definition of IGNORANCE.........being affraid of that wich you dont understand. Degrading a spiritual gift as Evil, because your not develpoed enough in your own life to gain such a gift. Sounds like predgiduce and ignorance to me


[edit on 9-2-2005 by theRiverGoddess]



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by JoeyC
I have never heard about any bad experiences for projectors- other than sleep paralysis. What have you heard sign related 2?

There are 2 main authors who write books on Astral Projection who are Robert Bruce and Robert A. Monroe. I know Robert Bruce takes his writing very seriously and has a number of forums running on astral projection (including one especially for helping those with his MAP book) and he has been writing techniques on the net for nearly 10 years so he's about as credible as you're going to get.

Il get back to you on whether his techiques are genuine when im a bit further on in the book.

Respect- JoeyC

[edit on 9-2-2005 by JoeyC]


Heard? Heard is not even the half. It's a list of things they can do that are harmful (to the brain, mind, eyes, skin, veins, senses), foul, bothersome (particularly if they have their astral body with you wherever you go to bother you. And spy on whatever you do, then have the nerve to show you just what they've spied on with their induced dream into the mind of who they've spied upon), and decieving.

Credible those two authors can be in either one way or the other way. I haven't read their books, but what I'm saying is they could be born astral projectors or decieved by astral projectors. But if deceived, then it wouldnt be too long before the actual ones astral projecting start acting up to the point it is plainly noticed of the aurthor.

The source of their power lies in the soul (a surely abnornmal soul I would say) and natural energy found throughout what's in the sun's grasp. Night or day, engery is present enough for their soul's use so that they can regenerate themselves spirit/ghost/angel/God/Son of man wise.


Do you remember the last time you had a dream?

I will tell you this one secret kept from being known throughout the entire world till now... All (yes, I said all) dreams come from those that can astral project. So whose generated dream is it, truthfully? Their's. Dreams include what's thought of as visions too which includes night terrors. Sleep paralysis with a dream is caused by them. And still be not fooled for they can induce their own human selves these things.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 04:51 PM
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remember that Jesus Christ himself said....."these things that I can do, YOU can do....AND MORE"
I didnt quite get the exact quote there, but thats the gist of it........



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
well.....I am just chuckleing at folks with the OOBE ability being 'evil' l


All the Monks, and enlightened beings who do this are NOT evil...........


I am SURE 'some' folks who do this COULD be evil, as in selling theyre souls for the ability. Like attracts like I believe, and if your a dark energy being you will travel in the lower realms. But saying ALL beings with this ability are evil in nature is ridiculous, that means your saying Buddah, Jesus Christ and Babaji were evil beings........and thats just NOT true.

Folks who work on this ability have to keep theyre bodies free from impurities, and their minds clear of impure thoughts. They need to meditate and get to know themselves deeply in a very Spiritual way, so saying they are ALL Evil is a very uninformed statement, like a child claiming a boogeyman is under the bed. Keeping yourself in this frame of mind will keep you from gaining this ability.........NOT all folks who can do this were born this way, they LEARNED it during theyre lifetime.
In Robert Monroe's books on OOBE, its stated he didnt gain this ability untill way into his 50's.

This BRAINWASHING thread seams to me a way for a VERY uniformed person to make themselves feel BETTER about not having this gift, and then in ignorance points a finger at those who can, calling them Evil. ( Nazi's did this to)
That is the EXACT definition of IGNORANCE.........being affraid of that wich you dont understand. Degrading a spiritual gift as Evil, because your not develpoed enough in your own life to gain such a gift. Sounds like predgiduce and ignorance to me


[edit on 9-2-2005 by theRiverGoddess]


You say with this ability? I am with this ability just for the simple fact of being with those that can do it in my person as if me. Even though I am not able to do astral projection myself.

A person who invades another's very person and privacy indeed is being evil. Trying to literally be as another by decieiving their mind is of evil.

If someone you knew that could astral project called you on the phone and told you they will be watching you...would you want them watching you thoughout the place you live at?

Tell me one thing good someone that can astral project can do with their astral body toward another person?

Even without their astral body being used toward another, they are evil and will do evil things with their very hands.

Jesus wasnt evil, but Lord Jesus Christ is evil. And that's another story.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by Questor

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
See you in an astral realm some time?


Is that a real invitation?


Although I'm not pro astral realm threesomes, if I were, only you would have an open invitation to visit my husband and I whilst we/he is in that form. Otherwise, a person attempting might be greeted by a very ugly and angry being.



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 07:32 PM
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Can someone tell me what astral projecting is?

I have heard it mentioned on here before but never picked up on what it was.

Also, what does it have to do with lucid dreams? I have them ALL the time - like at least half of my dreams I can control.

Thanks in advance



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 07:52 PM
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Personally....I dont KNOW of a person who has this ability that uses it just to SPY on others........
In my case it is used to free myself from the fear of death, and having the ability to comunicate with others in this realm, and for space travel. I know of NOT ONE single person who tries to ~INHABIT~ anothers body while in this state......what a waste of good OOBE time THAT would be sheesh......I would agree that POSESSION is Demonic indeed, but just because a person can OOBE doesnt make them or the ability EVIL.....of ALL the books I have read on the subgect NOONE has ever even MENTIONED that it would even be POSSIBLE to take over another persons body and SEE from theyre eyes, so that makes me believe you know little of that wich you are speaking.
Sounds MORE like your talking about POSESSION than the ability to OOBE........

Very STRANGE indeed that your believing its only used to SPY
And Stranger even STILL when you say you dont have this ability yet OTHERS WITHIN you do........you sound full of personalities in that respect. I would recomend MEDITATION for you, in able for you to gather all your SELVES together and act as a single human being. Sounds like you have a big challenge, indeed ahead of you.

ANYWAY back on topic...........OOBE is not brainwashing, or something 'imagined' by the experiancers. Nor is it ~EVIL~..........
.......Just because one person is VERY phychic and your not, doesnt make the experiance they are having false in nature. Same goes with a person with the ability to OOBE. Just because you ~CANT~ doesnt make it untrue.

very VERY few people can actually DO this........
and they are NOT inherantly Evil..........

Why dont you, SIGN RELATED, start a new thread and tell folks in what way you believe Jesus Christ to be Evil....???? I would be interested to SEE where you are coming from with THAT statement
Sure doesnt seam to belong on THIS thread....



posted on Feb, 9 2005 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
Personally....I dont KNOW of a person who has this ability that uses it just to SPY on others........
In my case it is used to free myself from the fear of death, and having the ability to comunicate with others in this realm, and for space travel. I know of NOT ONE single person who tries to ~INHABIT~ anothers body while in this state......what a waste of good OOBE time THAT would be sheesh......I would agree that POSESSION is Demonic indeed, but just because a person can OOBE doesnt make them or the ability EVIL.....of ALL the books I have read on the subgect NOONE has ever even MENTIONED that it would even be POSSIBLE to take over another persons body and SEE from theyre eyes, so that makes me believe you know little of that wich you are speaking.
Sounds MORE like your talking about POSESSION than the ability to OOBE........

Very STRANGE indeed that your believing its only used to SPY
And Stranger even STILL when you say you dont have this ability yet OTHERS WITHIN you do........you sound full of personalities in that respect. I would recomend MEDITATION for you, in able for you to gather all your SELVES together and act as a single human being. Sounds like you have a big challenge, indeed ahead of you.

ANYWAY back on topic...........OOBE is not brainwashing, or something 'imagined' by the experiancers. Nor is it ~EVIL~..........
.......Just because one person is VERY phychic and your not, doesnt make the experiance they are having false in nature. Same goes with a person with the ability to OOBE. Just because you ~CANT~ doesnt make it untrue.

very VERY few people can actually DO this........
and they are NOT inherantly Evil..........

Why dont you, SIGN RELATED, start a new thread and tell folks in what way you believe Jesus Christ to be Evil....???? I would be interested to SEE where you are coming from with THAT statement
Sure doesnt seam to belong on THIS thread....


I want JoeyC to see this.

Did you, RiverGoddess, just say you "dont KNOW of a person who has this ability that uses it just to SPY on others"??? That implicates that they do spy and do more that you know of. Then you claim you use it to communicate with others... Tisk tisk now. What other person can hear your astral communication without your astral body being in them (streaming communication into, say, their very mind)?

You've just prooved to JoeyC and others, I would think, (because you know I already know of the evil) that beings as yourself are liars.

I even spoke of that fear of death in a reply in another person's post who would experience that very kind of fear--How come he would?--because someone's astral projection, from someone being evil, would have him feel that sudden fear of death just about whenever he'd be in bed. I even related with that person to have felt somebody else's astral body filled with the fear of death.

So, when you release that fear of death-- though you wouldnt dare tell me--I bet there is some victim that has to put up with it. In the sense department of the body they can take over it--make one in their sleep see their dreams for instance. They can cause sleep paralysis with dreams--if that's not counted as taking over a body, then what is in your falsely flawed opinion?

You say all my selves when you mix yourself in other selves for communicating?

You know, some people are obvious hypocrites who be evil indeed (like how can they help but be evil and hypcritical, you know?). And when the shoe fits, it fits. And they do expose themselves. I'll tell you like this, those hellbound do have the fear of death.

O yeah, NOT inherantly Evil? You are indeed right on that because they "be" evil (O yes, this matter concerns something before being born here in the world). Something one simply "be" is not given. For they are chosen of their own self. But they do try to make those not evil inherit evil things.

Speaking of communication... You know their are people that astral project so that they can cause someone else a mental problem of hearing voices. That aint even a question because I know you know of this (tell-hell-is).


[edit on 9-2-2005 by Sign Related 2]



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