2 dead after Virginia State Police helicopter crashes near Charlottesville

a reply to: mOjOm

No protestors, no antifa, were there.

So all the antifa signs were from alt right people just acting?

What about tweets done by antifa saying defend cville?

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Of your argument is the alternative right knew the response from counter protests chances are it's a bad legal defense when both sides get sued by the city.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: CriticalStinker

So blame both sides if you want.

In the end the people of that town didn't want any of that sh*t. The protestors wouldn't go there if the demonstrators didn't go there first. Because there would be no reason to be there.

You know what? People at those funerals didn't want Phelps and his people there either, but like it or not, and I didn't at all, freedom of speech said they got to show up and be jerks (actually that's the very tamest word I would use for it).

a reply to: mOjOm


Actually, 3 cars were involved, he just happened to be the last car, so of course to insurance, he is the one that caused the accident. Nope, the protestors caused this accident. They wouldn't be dead if they just stayed home.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: mOjOm

Omigosh, they were!

Arson totally averted by those counter protestors who showed up today and helped cause riots.

If I could, I would use a sarcastic eyeroll emote.

Don't try and twist my words. I didn't say that. You asked a what if question and that's the answer I gave for it.

Groups of people marching down the street of a town they don't even live in with torches could lead to many different things. But don't act like it's a common thing. How long has it been since an angry crowd of strangers holding torches marched down your street BTW???

Roll your eyes all you want. But I would suggest now and then to try opening them.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: mOjOm

No protestors, no antifa, were there.

So all the antifa signs were from alt right people just acting?

What about tweets done by antifa saying defend cville?

I'm talking about a different event. Not this one.

a reply to: luthier

I am saying they had permits to hold a rally.

Usually in the past, they hold their really. They don't pretend to hold a rally and then a riot breaks out where they go crazy on the town. Usually, they show up and march and yell and all that stuff and then leave.

a reply to: ketsuko

The demonstrators were there with weapons and shields and torches. That's not about free speech, that's about violence.

You just want to blame the protestors and not the demonstrators.

I'm willing to accept the fact that both sides were there looking for a fight. You want to act like the White nationalists were just there for free speech and were poor little victims here.

Because you can't be honest. Therefore I can't take you seriously.

a reply to: luthier

The only point I'm trying to make is anyone involved in the riot was in the wrong.

This country has freedom of speech. I don't agree with much of what I hear, but I don't punch people for saying it.

And if someone has a message of hate and you meet it with hate, than now we have more.

Part of being an adult is picking your battles. I'll have a conversation with most people willing to engage in one. Nazis are not part of that. Their ideology has no place in America, but they're free to think it. There is no way I could change their mind so I won't waste my time.

Being in a free country comes with civic duties. And just because we don't like something does not justify the destruction of people or property.

Today is a stain, both sides involved in it. There is no justifications for any of today's actions.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Vorian

I'm puzzled by yours.

You truly seem to hate free speech, but I knew the left and young did. I just cannot fathom what you think you will gain by ceding your freedoms like that.

I do not hate free speech. It is an intrinsic right. The Left certainly doesn't hate free speech and I don't believe the young either. Do you feel free speech is only loved by the old right people?

The left has always been on the side of free speech.

I won't comment on the odd last paragraph it was just ridiculous, as that didn't happen and would not have happened. It seems those you defend counted on that not happening.

Ceding my freedoms? I cede nothing. I will say and describe when free speech becomes hate speech. I will describe when it crosses the line of calling 'fire' in a crowded theater.

I will describe when we are repeating the history of Nazi Germany and the South of decades ago. Speech that supports either is hate speech and it will certainly cost those using it.

originally posted by: Diabolical1972
a reply to: mOjOm


Actually, 3 cars were involved, he just happened to be the last car, so of course to insurance, he is the one that caused the accident. Nope, the protestors caused this accident. They wouldn't be dead if they just stayed home.

BS!!!

He drove down the street and wrecked into the back of the other two cars. The other two cars were also victims of that last one.

Nobody caused any accident because it wasn't an accident. The guy who shot the video told the story of what happened as his friend shot the video of it. The guy was just in his car looking down the street at the crowd alone for minutes before speeding down the road and hitting them. He was just sitting there, stopped in the road for no reason eyeing his targets before hitting the gas. This wasn't a mistake.

But nice try I guess.

a reply to: mOjOm

There were no cops watching all that?

Every single rally of any kind I've ever been to has had a pretty tight police presence.

So are the torches scary because they were fire or because of who was carrying them?

originally posted by: Diabolical1972
a reply to: mOjOm

That It is a college town that votes Democrat, yet you believe ALL the counter protesters were 'outsiders'. LOL, that argument is played out.

I have stated I believe in free speech. Some speech, though is akin to yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater. There will be a riot.

Lives were lost because these lunatics, these idiotic dregs of society who are so spineless and lacking in self esteem, they feel they must copy the Nazis to preserve a race?

No Sir. The whole thing was a rally of hate. There will be counter protest and they knew it. There would be fights and they knew it.

A LOT of them WANT a race war.

Some think it is a 'deep state' thing that is somehow the puppeteer. But, check out White Nationalist and Neo Nazi US discussion boards and the 'Deep State' is not required. Even look at THIS website a little bit. No Deep State required c

formatting messing up.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: mOjOm

There were no cops watching all that?

Every single rally of any kind I've ever been to has had a pretty tight police presence.

So are the torches scary because they were fire or because of who was carrying them?

The torches become a symbol due to who is carrying them. Don;t act naive.

Maybe he was scared. If the kid has anxiety, trust me anxiety is going take over. If he has a fear crowds, I can see why he plowed into them. The protestors caused this accident. Period. No sympathy. They want to sit there and play Russian roulette with someone's city, than they can pay the piper. None of this would have happened if the protestors just stayed home. He could have been traveling and was caught in the middle, how do you know he was part of the protestors? What if he was going to college there?

I was traveling home back down south when I got caught up in the stupid DC protest. It scared the crap out me. The black clerk literally put his hands on me and shoved me out the store, but allowed other black people to enter the store. (BP) All the meanwhile saying there closed to white folks. You can't use the bathroom.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: luthier

The only point I'm trying to make is anyone involved in the riot was in the wrong.

This country has freedom of speech. I don't agree with much of what I hear, but I don't punch people for saying it.

And if someone has a message of hate and you meet it with hate, than now we have more.

Part of being an adult is picking your battles. I'll have a conversation with most people willing to engage in one. Nazis are not part of that. Their ideology has no place in America, but they're free to think it. There is no way I could change their mind so I won't waste my time.

Being in a free country comes with civic duties. And just because we don't like something does not justify the destruction of people or property.

Today is a stain, both sides involved in it. There is no justifications for any of today's actions.

Sure but as a centrist libertarian type I didn't get that from your posts. I got a person willing to admit some flaws with the right party but blames the left.

I look at it this way Lee was a decent man and a previous us war hereo. Moronic to protest the statue.

However if the town wants to vote it down vote it down. That didn't happen of course so it was even worse.

You can do a lot by changing the inscriptions of the monuments as a compromise as well if the town decides to vote or it violates ethical modernity.

Like this.



Or a flag raised in defiance to a civil rights legislation. Those are not heritage.

This situation was a massive bungle from the city to the protestors and law enforcement.

I thought the guard was supposed to be there.

Look it's a harsh time people hate each other you need to be able to handle the permits you give. It wasn't a secret people are at their wits end with each other and these things have been going south. Takes two to tango.

This isn't self defense and it usually isn't when it is a riot.

originally posted by: Diabolical1972
Maybe he was scared. If the kid has anxiety, trust me anxiety is going take over. If he has a fear crowds, I can see why he plowed into them. The protestors caused this accident. Period. No sympathy. They want to sit there and play Russian roulette with someone's city, than they can pay the piper. None of this would have happened if the protestors just stayed home. He could have been traveling and was caught in the middle, how do you know he was part of the protestors? What if he was going to college there?

I was traveling home back down south when I got caught up in the stupid DC protest. It scared the crap out me.

I have anxiety, especially while driving. I also have agoraphobia, that causes one to go AWAY from a crowd, not remove the crowd. I pull over when that happens. Only deeply disturbed individuals would plow into a crowd. Anxiety wile driving gives your brain one initiative: "Pull over".

Which protesters? There were protesters and counter protesters. So you blame it on all the protesters?

a reply to: ketsuko

Yeah when it wasnt a heated time like now. All these partisan bills have made people nuts.

Compromise is at such a low now we are swinging from extreme to extreme and each side stuffs the basketball in the hoop for a dunk thinking "bam gotcha" then 4 to 8 years the next guy undoes it all and sets the other extreme agenda.

Rinse repeat to today.

At some point regular dang people have to admit it's nuts and just ignore these jerks. So we can actually talk about how to fix things.

a reply to: luthier

I've only said negative things about both sides of this.

I don't like identity politics as a whole. I don't defend anyone more than others.

Breaking the law is breaking the law.

And using ideology which is all opinion based to justify acts of wrongdoing is bigotry in itself by saying your ideas carry more weight than others.

Edit: nazis and kkk are heinous ideas. While they have no place in modern society, they have the right to believe and speak about their opinions. I don't mind being called a bigot for saying that, but I won't fight them unless it's in defense

yep. they are all responsible.