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2 dead after Virginia State Police helicopter crashes near Charlottesville

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posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 07:43 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Vorian

Listen, there is still freedom of speech. This isn't the first time there has been a nazi or kkk march.

But most of the time sane people ignore it and they don't get any attention.

That didn't happen this time, and those people who you claim were there to day they werent welcome weren't welcome either.

These were all outsiders.


It is a college town that votes Democrat, yet you believe ALL the counter protesters were 'outsiders'. LOL, that argument is played out.

I have stated I believe in free speech. Some speech, though is akin to yelling 'fire' in a crowded theater. There will be a riot.

Lives were lost because these lunatics, these idiotic dregs of society who are so spineless and lacking in self esteem, they feel they must copy the Nazis to preserve a race?

No Sir. The whole thing was a rally of hate. There will be counter protest and they knew it. There would be fights and they knew it.

A LOT of them WANT a race war.

Some think it is a 'deep state' thing that is somehow the puppeteer. But, check out White Nationalist and Neo Nazi US discussion boards and the 'Deep State' is not required. Even look at THIS website a little bit. No Deep State required.




posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 07:48 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Vorian

You're psychic?

Or are you hooked in with some group whose purpose it was to make sure that people died?

If they were left alone to rant and say their piece, how do you know that things would get violent?

Simple answer is that you don't.


Because the town is mostly a Democratic Voting town who voted 80% in favor of Hillary Clinton. Then a bunch of Right Wing and White Supremacy Groups come to THEIR TOWN marching with torches the night before and rallying in the morning telling them they can't take down a statue. IN THEIR OWN TOWN of majority Left Leaning People.

That's why you know it will get violent.

Rather than side with the Nationalist Groups maybe they should have stayed home and let the people of that town do what they want with a statue in their home town. The Right Wingers didn't have to go there and start trouble.

You say "Well just let the Demonstrators do their thing and ignore them. Well why don't the Demonstrators just let the town do their thing and ignore them instead???



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 07:50 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Vorian

You're psychic?

Or are you hooked in with some group whose purpose it was to make sure that people died?

If they were left alone to rant and say their piece, how do you know that things would get violent?

Simple answer is that you don't.


Because the town is mostly a Democratic Voting town who voted 80% in favor of Hillary Clinton. Then a bunch of Right Wing and White Supremacy Groups come to THEIR TOWN marching with torches the night before and rallying in the morning telling them they can't take down a statue. IN THEIR OWN TOWN of majority Left Leaning People.

That's why you know it will get violent.

Rather than side with the Nationalist Groups maybe they should have stayed home and let the people of that town do what they want with a statue in their home town. The Right Wingers didn't have to go there and start trouble.

You say "Well just let the Demonstrators do their thing and ignore them. Well why don't the Demonstrators just let the town do their thing and ignore them instead???


Exactly. I had missed Ketsuko's post.



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 07:50 PM
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a reply to: Vorian

No.

Stop telling yourself that just because some scumbags showed up to have a rally that they were forcing you to riot. That's a cheap excuse for you to try to intimidate anyone whose speech you don't like into not speaking period.

"I don't like what that Christian is saying. He should have known it would cause me to riot ..."

"I don't like what that man is saying. He should have known it would cause me to riot ..."

"I don't like what that political candidate is saying. He should have known it would cause me to riot ..."

And so on, and so forth ... You are basically saying that you simply cannot endure the utterance of ideas you do not personally like because the very thought you might hear it makes you physically violent. That says your parents did a piss poor job of raising you. I long ago broke my son of throwing temper tantrums whenever I said things he didn't like hearing.



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: Vorian

Its a college town in the summer. Most of the students aren't there.

And yes they vote Democrat, but you just conveniently gloss over that I live an hour and a half away. I go there regularly, I know this area. If we disagree with something we'll say it, we won't vandalize our own community in some temper tantrum because someone said something we don't like.

Thank you for preaching to me about the ideology of my own community, I'll go off of what I already know from living here.

Check out the Charlottesville reddit, most of the locals on their stayed home or left town.

Why would students at one of the best universities around risk expulsion for arguing with dumbasses? Everyone agrees nazis are bad, so why fight them or even act like anyone is listening?



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 07:52 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Not what I was saying at all. You miss the point. But m0j0m described it perfectly.



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 07:54 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm


The Right Wingers didn't have to go there and start trouble.


Right Wingers didn't go there. Psychotic people with no real political ideology went there.

And people keep acting like the counter protesters are so courageous for helping to vandalize the town and engage in illegal activities such as fighting and destroying property.

Again, as someone from the area, locals don't destroy the community, asshole outsiders with their own agendas do.



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 07:55 PM
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originally posted by: Vorian
a reply to: ketsuko

Not what I was saying at all. You miss the point. But m0j0m described it perfectly.



No that is the point. The point exactly.

Americans have the right to peaceably assemble, not just assemble only where the climate matches our ideology.

If a bunch of leftist idiots come on my turf and protest something, then it's no excuse for me to go start a riot over it. If they have the proper permits, then they get to say their piece and do their thing. Nothing compels me to go listen or pay any attention. They'll finish up their nonsense and leave in a couple of days.



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 07:57 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Vorian

Its a college town in the summer. Most of the students aren't there.

And yes they vote Democrat, but you just conveniently gloss over that I live an hour and a half away. I go there regularly, I know this area. If we disagree with something we'll say it, we won't vandalize our own community in some temper tantrum because someone said something we don't like.

Thank you for preaching to me about the ideology of my own community, I'll go off of what I already know from living here.

Check out the Charlottesville reddit, most of the locals on their stayed home or left town.

Why would students at one of the best universities around risk expulsion for arguing with dumbasses? Everyone agrees nazis are bad, so why fight them or even act like anyone is listening?


I lived in the same town I went to university in.

You live an hour and a half away? You spend that much time in a town that far?

Why would students from a good university protest Right Nationalists and Nazis? Hmmmmmm

You can't prove who did what vandalism.

And it's looking like the killer car might be a Trumpeter.

Regardless...I cannot fathom why you defend these people. It is not a simple idea of allowing a rally you don;t agree with. This was a LOT more and the University and town officials had the idea it would be beforehand.

I am puzzled at your mindset.
edit on 12-8-2017 by Vorian because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 07:57 PM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: mOjOm


The Right Wingers didn't have to go there and start trouble.


Right Wingers didn't go there. Psychotic people with no real political ideology went there.


It was called "Unite the Right". So yeah. Right Wingers were there. The Alt-Right were there. How can you say Right wingers didn't go there???



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 07:59 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Vorian

So they lose their right to assemble and speak because you don't like what they're saying?

Let's be clear. I don't like white supremacists either, but you either believe in free speech or you don't. And that includes all speech, even the worst of it.


It's not that simple with organized hate groups.
Nore is free speech. There are limits. Like organizing to purposely intimidate or threaten, to assemble to invoke riots, credible theats etc.

I support a right but what it's not in a vacuum.

When those riots infringe on others rights the first no longer is a defense.

The cowards in hate groups often use this for creating violence hiding behind the constitution.



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 08:01 PM
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a reply to: Vorian

I'm puzzled by yours.

You truly seem to hate free speech, but I knew the left and young did. I just cannot fathom what you think you will gain by ceding your freedoms like that.

Curious though ... if there had been no counter protest,what do you think would have happened? Would those "evil" protesters have broken into your homes and raped and pillaged you just to make their points? Would they have burned the entire town down?

Or would they simply have marched a lot, yelled a lot, and eventually gone home?



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 08:02 PM
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a reply to: Vorian

I've not once defended anyone. I've said only very negative things about nazis and the kkk.

All I've said is they have the right to speech just as anyone else. I don't agree with anything they say.

But if I went and physically faught them, while most would agree that's not the worst thing it's still against the law.

Both sides broke the law and rioted.

The community is trash and all engaged in today's events are to blame, including the media for giving such heinous ideology a platform.

These events happen when the media give outrageous ideas coverage stirring up opposition.

Just because you disagree with someone's words does not give you any right to break the law.



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 08:03 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Yeah, but groups like this one don't have a history of rioting in a vacuum.

Sure they might have popped off on their own, but I'll bet they were expecting a counter protest because ... when hasn't ANTIFA provided lately?

Had one not materialized, do you think they would have simply gone out in a snit and burned down the town? It hasn't been the history of nationalists.



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 08:05 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Maybe they would have burned down your home. They were marching through the streets with torches the night before after all.

Does Free speech include large groups of people chanting and marching down the streets holding torches too??? Is that common since the invention of the street light??? I don't think so.

But once again you ask what would have happened if the protestors just stayed home and let the demonstrators do their thing???

Well why not just have the demonstrators stay home??? Then there would be no question as to what would have happened at all would there??



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 08:08 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Both sides broke the laws.

No one is defending nazis or the kkk. But we had two factions riot. Both are in the wrong.



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 08:09 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

The history is defiantly there for organized crime I am not sure what you are saying. They have been caught before purposely planning to instigate by design.

For instance when is free speech harassment. It changes over all the time in civil lawsuits. I can't follow you around talking about how I hate your religion. I can't target you specifically and instigate a reaction or threaten you. I can't threaten you if you vote for this your going to be sorry....etc.

How about drag nooses, set up fake gallows and hang black dolls etc...

There are limits.



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 08:09 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: luthier

Yeah, but groups like this one don't have a history of rioting in a vacuum.



Not quite a riot but just a while back two different Alt-Right groups came together in an effort to join together and unite with each other. Remember that??

No protestors, no antifa, were there.

They ended up fighting with each other and had to cancel their own celebration. So they don't exactly have a history of getting along with anyone either. Not even those who they are trying to unite with.



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 08:10 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Omigosh, they were!

Arson totally averted by those counter protestors who showed up today and helped cause riots.

If I could, I would use a sarcastic eyeroll emote.



posted on Aug, 12 2017 @ 08:11 PM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker

So blame both sides if you want.

In the end the people of that town didn't want any of that sh*t. The protestors wouldn't go there if the demonstrators didn't go there first. Because there would be no reason to be there.




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