How dumb does one have to be...

a reply to: seagull

Leftist solidarity symbolism from the SDS/BPP days.

He may honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Why would it be a trick question?

IMO, I would say 'you' determine what it means to you.

But, otoh, in the spirit of fair debate, I will add that we live in local democracies that still have to operate under the United States constitution. If a state or local government offers the issue in a referendum, then the vote of the electorate will decide what it means and whether to allow it to be on display on public property.

Free speech rights are always being challenged. Even when we detest the words or the perceived meaning of an image, it is a slippery slope when we willy nilly disallow offensive rhetoric or displays.

a reply to: queenofswords

Correct again.

Now, considering that you decide how you feel about a rock and I decide how I feel about the same rock, does it make any sense for you to say I am against you because I like the rock that offends you?

Remember that in this example it was you, not me, who became offended at the rock.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: introvert
I've never understood symbolism. Whether it's a nation's flag, a statue or damn near anything else for that matter.

People need to relax and find better things to do with their time than worry about symbols.

Agreed.

While I will fight for an idea I will never care for a symbol of that very same idea.
Burn the flag, melt down all the statues of mary and jesus, spray paint kittens all over the lincoln memorial
and the statue of liberty. It doesn't mater to me they are just things and things can be remade.

Symbols are for the symbol minded - George Carlin
www.bing.com...

originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: introvert
I've never understood symbolism. Whether it's a nation's flag, a statue or damn near anything else for that matter.

People need to relax and find better things to do with their time than worry about symbols.

Sure you do. You chose a particular symbol for your avatar. You understand.

My avatar serves a purpose. It helps me find my posts within threads so that I can pick up a conversation after I've had to leave and come back.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Remember, TheRedneck, imo, it is not about a rock.

I will assume you are referring to the sculpture or the sygil....not the piece of granite or the piece of cloth.

I can look at a statue and see the art, the historical relevance, the cultural representation, etc. I may stand in my public park and contemplate all of that while gazing at that piece of historical art and reflect on the good, the bad, and the ugly of it.

If you stand beside me and see it as oppressive, repressive, or suppressive, it just means that your perspective is different.

Rather than being offended at you, or you at me, why not just acknowledge our differences in our way of thinking and our cultural experiences. You say toh-may-toh and I say toh-mah-toh. That doesn't mean I am against YOU, nor should you be against ME. No offense necessary.

Let a referendum decide what a community or state wants to do when it comes to such displays. It should be left up to the electorate....not a few that sit on the city council or even a governor.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: introvert

You don't?

Then what is the clenched fist avatar that you've had since forever?

I just addressed that. It's not a symbol that I am emotionally attached to and it does nothing for me other than to serve as a marker.

a reply to: introvert

Don't get me wrong. I'm not offended by your avatar. But you chose it for a reason. The 'raised fist' is very symbolic. Heck! It even has a Wikipedia entry. IMO, you might want to evaluate your conscious or subconscious reason for choosing it.

This is a good example. You see your avatar as a benign placeholder. Someone else may see it as a symbol of resistance of some sort.

"The secret is to bang the rocks together Guys..."
~Douglas Adams

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: introvert

Don't get me wrong. I'm not offended by your avatar. But you chose it for a reason. The 'raised fist' is very symbolic. Heck! It even has a Wikipedia entry. IMO, you might want to evaluate your conscious or subconscious reason for choosing it.

This is a good example. You see your avatar as a benign placeholder. Someone else may see it as a symbol of resistance of some sort.

I chose it because it has my username in it and it was brighter than the first one I chose.

How other people perceive it is none of my concern.

I like when taxpayers can say they won't pay for the upkeep of a divisive rock.

a reply to: TheRedneck

As a rock enthusiast I'm deeply concerned.

Sure some rocks may be igneous or metamorphic and if I may paraphrase G.W bush 'I believe that rocks and humans can co-exist peacefully.'

I'm a cobalt man myself but I don't blame cubic Zirconia for it's lifestyle choices, hell my pet geode is bi-geological. I have nothing further to add then a 'tsk tsk' and a S&F.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
"The secret is to bang the rocks together Guys..."
~Douglas Adams

Dammit you beat me to it.

We as humans cannot be trusted with rocks, cloth, water, metal, sticks, or even sand. They all turn into weapons eventually.

I personally feel the rock in Charlottesville was representative of a very pivotal point in history. That is what it means to me. Why are people trying to erase history, to re-write it to soothe a bunch of whiny fools who were not there and have no idea of the horrific deaths of 620,000 AMERICANS? This was a war of states rights. Slavery was an issue, but not THE issue.

This rock remembers a time. A very bloody, painful time in our history. Meaning was placed on this rock by the sculptor, and by the people it was presented to.

Those that do not remember history are doomed to repeat it. I am so disappointed over the idiocy that is blooming forth from the sons and the daughters of families that have been here a long time, and from those who just got here (I am first generation American, from California....so don't start on me with the "You must be a southern racist").

Maybe the generation that grew up on violent video games think war is cool. How much pushing must we endure from morons before we snap? How many alt-left protests of violence needed to occur before this backlash? For every action there tends to be an equal and opposite reaction. How many times do white people have to be told they are bad, they need to be kept from certain areas, that they are responsible for the evil the world currently finds itself in? Tell me that's not racism, and doesn't invite racists from the other side to come out in vast numbers and start some crap?

Rock or no rock, what just occurred in Charlottesville is the result of all that has gone before. It didn't develop in a vacuum. That rock bears the visage of Lee has been here a lot longer than the people in the streets, and will be here long after.

I'm going outside now and hanging my symbolic cloth upside down now, I believe we are officially a nation in distress.

a reply to: introvert

How other people perceive it is none of my concern.

Exactly.

Just because some people see the white fist, clenched and raised, as a symbol of White Power, doesn't mean that is how you see it. Should you remove it and choose something else because it may offend somebody that sees it that way? No.

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: introvert

How other people perceive it is none of my concern.

Exactly.

Just because some people see the white fist, clenched and raised, as a symbol of White Power, doesn't mean that is how you see it. Should you remove it and choose something else because it may offend somebody that sees it that way? No.

Ok. I never made the claim that anything should be removed because it offends people.

For example, I've said many times to Redneck that I don't think the Confederate flag should be removed due to it's symbolism. If the people in certain areas choose to remove it, that's their call, but just because it offends a few does not mean it should be taken down.

Put that statue of Robert E. Lee up for auction. Let the one's for put their money where their mouth's are or the one's against it put up or shut up. Those for can erect that statue on private property & be done with that. Those against can burn it, crush it, whatever the hell their little history erasing selves want to do with it. Wish I had the money...would look quite nice over looking my back yard. with some big ole lights lighting it up.

a reply to: queenofswords

OK, you graduated... with an A+

I had a feeling that we would be in some agreement on this. Thanks for playing along. I hope someone else can follow the logic.

Me, personally, I get a feeling of pride in who I am when I see a statue of Lee standing tall or sitting atop a mount. It reminds me of those who came before me and who tried, as I do, to navigate this maze of gauntlets we call life. They made a lot of mistakes. I have made a lot of mistakes. But we persevered and stood for something, right, wrong,or somewhere in between.

If someone else can't see that, then they need a rock in a shape they like. Maybe George Washington Carver or Rosa Parks... I can see them standing proud next to ol' Bob Lee. It wouldn't bother me in the least. If there is an afterlife, I believe Bob, Rosa, and George are probably sitting around a table drinking a col'beer, laughing together, and swapping stories of their lives.

'Uncle Billy' Sherman is probably still burning beside Adolph Hitler, but that's another thread...

The point is that we have to get over this symbol hatred. On another thread, I saw a picture of the riots posted where some people were holding the Nazi swastika next to my Battlejack. That hurt to look at, but it doesn't change how I look at my flag. It only changes how I look at them. The flag didn't choose to be associated with a different flag; people chose to associate it thusly. And those people do not control my thoughts, my feelings, or my identity.

I control those things.

TheRedneck

a reply to: introvert

How other people perceive it is none of my concern.

How do you feel when forced to justify it, as is happening right here?

That's how I feel when forced to justify why I fly a 'racist' flag.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

I heard that zirconium secretly hates granite for the color of its grain... might want to rethink that position before you are called a racist.

TheRedneck