Well ... I Guess the Chinese Want Some Too

originally posted by: Abysha
You do realize that, if we "obliterated" NK and China preemptively, there would be coalitions formed against us? You think we can take on the world?
.

We're not going to need to obliterate China because this is Beijing talking out their ass, but yeah, the US can take the world without a doubt. There's value in having annual military expenditures greater than the rest of the world combined, there are also several nations that wouldn't side against us, like Canada, Israel, the UK, and most of the old Bloc Europe nations that realize the US is the only reason they're not still in the USSR.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: 3daysgone

So we should obliterate a country with 25 million people and let the radioactive fallout kill countless millions more just in South Korea alone, all because we're in a glorified pissing contest? Oh and if another country that houses a good 6th of the world's entire population has a problem with it, we should kill them all too?

Yes, that's extremism.

War is the most extreme thing that countries do. Once again, do we sit back and do nothing?

a reply to: Snarl


Putin seems pretty good at chess, he is likely moving his pieces into a useful position and waiting in anticipation. Its the quiet ones that are really dangerous as you already know.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: 3daysgone

So we should obliterate a country with 25 million people and let the radioactive fallout kill countless millions more just in South Korea alone, all because we're in a glorified pissing contest? Oh and if another country that houses a good 6th of the world's entire population has a problem with it, we should kill them all too?

Yes, that's extremism.

Oh, less extreme than that.

When Lil' Kim shoots off his nuclear wad, we shoot it down and then both Lil' Kim and China accuse us of a "first strike" even if we provide proof Lil' Kim fired off actual nukes.

Then they can feel justified in doing whatever they want ... like shelling Seoul. Even if it's not nukes, they'll claim we struck first, even if that's not true.

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: modified device

we have them ringed with THAAD,Patriots and can very likely hack their first gen guidance systems,so yes they get that move and when it fails.

Excellent point. But if we strike down their missiles it is an act of war none the less.

Not if they violate our airspace un invited with weapons. Japan has said it might strike at the missiles if they cross their airspace i think.

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: modified device

we have them ringed with THAAD,Patriots and can very likely hack their first gen guidance systems,so yes they get that move and when it fails.

Excellent point. But if we strike down their missiles it is an act of war none the less.

Telemetry records,video records and every damn satellite China,Russia and everyone else will be dialed in believe me there wont be a mistake here every one will know he was shooting at us if we take his missiles down but then again if we were to hack his missiles and fly them into the sea like what allegedly happened back in April of this very year then it's not an act of war its pi$$ poor North Korean technology and some half starved tech who didn't bow low enough when Kim passed by gets fed to the dogs and his family locked up in a concentration camp.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: modified device

we have them ringed with THAAD,Patriots and can very likely hack their first gen guidance systems,so yes they get that move and when it fails.

Excellent point. But if we strike down their missiles it is an act of war none the less.

Not if they violate our airspace un invited with weapons. Japan has said it might strike at the missiles if they cross their airspace i think.

I am pretty sure if they violate our air space with missiles, it is an act of war, by them. So the premises is still relevant.

a reply to: 3daysgone

So you're agreeing that it's extremism. Then why do you keep asking me about it?

I don't think war w/North Korea is the right option at all on this. And I definitely don't think a war with China is the right choice, like the OP is proposing. But at the same time, I have no intentions of stopping suicidal fools from committing suicide. I just know that I'm not fighting in this glorified pissing contest.

I watched plenty of my high school and college friends go off to fight in Afghanistan right after 9/11. And I saw even more of my friends and younger brother's friends go off to fight in Iraq. I also vividly remember the ones who came back physically or mentally broken. And that was against weak enemies that had no nukes or modern militaries. Many of you may have short memories about that but I don't. If after seeing the thousands of US troops killed and 10s of thousands of troops wounded didn't change your mind about these pointless wars, then I don't think you're worthy of any sympathy if you choose to redo that same stupid decision. But keep the rest of us out of it.

originally posted by: modified device

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: modified device

we have them ringed with THAAD,Patriots and can very likely hack their first gen guidance systems,so yes they get that move and when it fails.

Excellent point. But if we strike down their missiles it is an act of war none the less.

Telemetry records,video records and every damn satellite China,Russia and everyone else will be dialed in believe me there wont be a mistake here every one will know he was shooting at us if we take his missiles down but then again if we were to hack his missiles and fly them into the sea like what allegedly happened back in April of this very year then it's not an act of war its pi$$ poor North Korean technology and some half starved tech who didn't bow low enough when Kim passed by gets fed to the dogs and his family locked up in a concentration camp.

I agree. It would still be an act of war though. Why would we wait to see? If one of the missiles do get through and causes major dmg, is it worth the risk? Maybe if we can stop it. This is a very tricky situation. One that I have faith our military is prepared for whatever the outcome may be.

originally posted by: 3daysgone
a reply to: Abysha

You

Anybody can launch nukes at us at any time. Do we preemptively strike them all?

The problem with it is that no one else is threatening us with Nukes. North Korea is.

We were in a cold war with Russia for years and never resorted to a "first strike". Because we didn't, there was never a nuclear war.

Yes, but North Korea is not Russia. North Korea actually said they will attack an American military base. Should that be taken lightly?

So far, America is the only nation to nuke another nation. I'd like to let that slide into history a little further before considering it again

And it ended the war that had taken more lives than any other single war. Was it worth it to stop a war of that magnitude? Or should they have let it go on?

Good post.

Denny

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: 3daysgone

So you're agreeing that it's extremism. Then why do you keep asking me about it?

I don't think war w/North Korea is the right option at all on this. And I definitely don't think a war with China is the right choice, like the OP is proposing. But at the same time, I have no intentions of stopping suicidal fools from committing suicide. I just know that I'm not fighting in this glorified pissing contest.

I watched plenty of my high school and college friends go off to fight in Afghanistan right after 9/11. And I saw even more of my friends and younger brother's friends go off to fight in Iraq. I also vividly remember the ones who came back physically or mentally broken. And that was against weak enemies that had no nukes or modern militaries. Many of you may have short memories about that but I don't. If after seeing the thousands of US troops killed and 10s of thousands of troops wounded didn't change your mind about these pointless wars, then I don't think you're worthy of any sympathy if you choose to redo that same stupid decision. But keep the rest of us out of it.

Yeah war is hell. War is the worst thing that happens to this world. Knowing that will not stop it though. Would you just do nothing while North Korea bombs people with nukes? If you would, what would you do when they came for you?

Edited to add that doing nothing sometimes is extreme also.

a reply to: 3daysgone

Dude sometimes you gotta take one for the team to win the game. I still don't think there will be war. I think China has now stepped in on China's side and said the right thing and the best way to shut him up.

The only X-Factor we have here that could lead to war is the severity of North Korea's famine that is now looming after the drought there's videos being smuggled out of there of their soldiers and they look absolutely famished think Ethiopians
in the 70s.hungry people are desperate people. Think about that,famine,our greatest weapon is now food.staring army defect now and get a cheeseburger and fries.time to issue McDonald's franchises all up and down the DMZ with and investment on fans to waft the flavorful smells right over to the hungry artillery gunners

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Snarl

Simple, we offer North Korea to Russia (sans-serif their leader and multiple soon to be absent government buildings) and tell Vladimir he can also have northern China if China involves themselves in this. Putin will sit on sidelines looking like that scheming raccoon meme and China will do what they do best, nothing and like it, while we clear the room.

You could write a Game of Thrones episode.

originally posted by: modified device
a reply to: 3daysgone

Dude sometimes you gotta take one for the team to win the game. I still don't think there will be war. I think China has now stepped in on China's side and said the right thing and the best way to shut him up.

The only X-Factor we have here that could lead to war is the severity of North Korea's famine that is now looming after the drought there's videos being smuggled out of there of their soldiers and they look absolutely famished think Ethiopians
in the 70s.hungry people are desperate people.

I am not saying you are wrong, I am simply ingesting your thoughts with questions. You are making very good points.

originally posted by: Snarl
There's no doubt what is about to occur won't be remembered as war. There aren't going to be two armies meeting on the battlefield and spilling blood.

What's going to happen is going to be sudden. The North Korean Military's ability to threaten Seoul with conventional weapons shelling is going to disappear. The North Korean's ability to launch a ballistic missile ... gone. The amount of destruction this requires ... merely a footnote in the pages of history.

The fun part comes out of China's state run news agency: Global Times. They put China's strategy out as: If North Korea strikes first - We'll do nothing. But, if the US puts down the threat (like one would a rabid dog) - Then they'll retaliate against America.

Chinese paper says China should stay neutral if North Korea attacks first
"It needs to make clear its stance to all sides and make them understand that when their actions jeopardize China's interests, China will respond with a firm hand," said the paper, which does not represent government policy.

China hopes the International Community has forgotten where sides were drawn during the Korean War. President Trump surely knows. Nikki Haley surely knows.

The Chinese are the bad guys here and President Trump would do well to obliterate them along with the North Koreans. And I believe there's no other reason President Trump and his cabinet have waited this long. There's a legal war President Trump can Finish. If he does it right, not a single allied entity has to lose their life. If you're in China and you're reading this ... get out as fast as you can. Congress is in Recess and President Trump can do anything he damn well pleases where the Korean War is concerned.

Wow..... You basically are war mongering for the probable start of WWIII. Going to war with China, like going to war with Russia, is a great bet for a very very serious war.

Are you completely ignorant as to how advanced and capable China is now? Ultimately, they in isolation (without allies or opponents of the US jumping in) would lose, but they'll do some damage first. Ain't no Iraq or Libya son... We haven't even really settled Iraq or Afghanistan, or "finished" those wars.. China would be a far greater task.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: Snarl
There's no doubt what is about to occur won't be remembered as war. There aren't going to be two armies meeting on the battlefield and spilling blood.

What's going to happen is going to be sudden. The North Korean Military's ability to threaten Seoul with conventional weapons shelling is going to disappear. The North Korean's ability to launch a ballistic missile ... gone. The amount of destruction this requires ... merely a footnote in the pages of history.

The fun part comes out of China's state run news agency: Global Times. They put China's strategy out as: If North Korea strikes first - We'll do nothing. But, if the US puts down the threat (like one would a rabid dog) - Then they'll retaliate against America.

Chinese paper says China should stay neutral if North Korea attacks first
"It needs to make clear its stance to all sides and make them understand that when their actions jeopardize China's interests, China will respond with a firm hand," said the paper, which does not represent government policy.

China hopes the International Community has forgotten where sides were drawn during the Korean War. President Trump surely knows. Nikki Haley surely knows.

The Chinese are the bad guys here and President Trump would do well to obliterate them along with the North Koreans. And I believe there's no other reason President Trump and his cabinet have waited this long. There's a legal war President Trump can Finish. If he does it right, not a single allied entity has to lose their life. If you're in China and you're reading this ... get out as fast as you can. Congress is in Recess and President Trump can do anything he damn well pleases where the Korean War is concerned.

Ain't no Iraq or Libya son...

I agree we don't want a war with China, but let's be real, the U.S. has basically been playing patty-cake in the middle east. Drone Operators couldn't even strike a target until they got clearance from D.C. Lawyers, that isn't war, it's politics. If the US military was actually allowed to be unleashed, things would have gone much differently in the ME, not to mention Vietnam. To paraphrase Reagan, we shouldn't send our troops into war unless we are prepared to do what is necessary to win. If we do what is necessary, NK would be defeated relatively quickly by the US and it's allies.

a reply to: 3daysgone

My plan would be poison food. It looks like he likes to eat.

Or some poison clippers.for the mental patient look he likes.

What china wants is for both the u.s and nk to grow up and act like adults instead of acting like spoilt little brats throwing tantrums because they cant get their way .

It was the North that invaded the South that started the Korean war. They did it because Truman moved our powerful fleet to protect the rightful Democratic government of China in exile on Taiwan. NK always has been and always will be a puppet of Communist China.

Why does Kim threaten Guam when he can easily threaten the West Coast, or anywhere in the mainland States, or even Hawaii or Alaska?

It is because Guam is the US Military's center of power in the pacific that China wants removed. China has negotiated its way into making island bases all over the place by putting a dime in the Kim jukebox over and over again. NK is just a tool in China's expansionist policy.

Trump is putting an end to it.

Can anyone imagine how fast Hillary would be vacating Guam after China's recent dime in the NK jukebox? China would be overfilling the Clinton Foundation coffers for her expedient departure.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
It was the North that invaded the South that started the Korean war. They did it because Truman moved our powerful fleet to protect the rightful Democratic government of China in exile on Taiwan. NK always has been and always will be a puppet of Communist China.

Why does Kim threaten Guam when he can easily threaten the West Coast, or anywhere in the mainland States, or even Hawaii or Alaska?

It is because Guam is the US Military's center of power in the pacific that China wants removed. China has negotiated its way into making island bases all over the place by putting a dime in the Kim jukebox over and over again. NK is just a tool in China's expansionist policy.

Trump is putting an end to it.

Can anyone imagine how fast Hillary would be vacating Guam after China's recent dime in the NK jukebox? China would be overfilling the Clinton Foundation coffers for her expedient departure.

You do understand Guam is an 1/8th the distance as the west coast? We have a few more ahemmm...defense satelites and such protecting this area? It's a forward command. That is why it's threatened by ancient weapons.