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Illegal Immigrants Received Over $1 Billion in Welfare in Just Two Years

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posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: kyleplatinum

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
I just would like to know why the rest of us have to be documented. If it is ok to be an undocumented and that doesn't make you illegal why not me too.


Because they care more about the poor illegal immigrant's family and children.


Are they illegal or just undocumented seems the language keeps changing?

When I think of the poor Families I think of the thousands signed up for legal entrance with stacks of paperwork over the years waiting and waiting and never hear back from the immigration dept.




posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: SeaWorthy

Probably the same ones. If you never hear back then you might as well hop the border. Hey, at least they tried doing it the right way.



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 01:31 PM
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originally posted by: SeaWorthy

originally posted by: kyleplatinum

originally posted by: SeaWorthy
I just would like to know why the rest of us have to be documented. If it is ok to be an undocumented and that doesn't make you illegal why not me too.


Because they care more about the poor illegal immigrant's family and children.


Are they illegal or just undocumented seems the language keeps changing?

When I think of the poor Families I think of the thousands signed up for legal entrance with stacks of paperwork over the years waiting and waiting and never hear back from the immigration dept.


Well, technically that is what they are, but it's not nice to say that... term dehumanizes and marginalizes the people it seeks to describe.

PC is a joke.



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 01:48 PM
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originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: luthier

Illegals aren't merely filling a void in some cases, the trades to be specific. They have lowered the average wage and forced many tradesman to pack it up or make do with far less. Yes, employers of illegals should be hit extremely hard when caught. You are right that's a big problem. Just as big is illegals being self employed and taking jobs at far lower bids then taxpaying, lawful citizens, who can't compete with the lack of payroll taxes, unemployment taxes, workman's comp ect...... When you can't compete on an even playing field something is wrong. Anyway you slice it Illegals are well, illegal as are the employers who use them or hire them for cheap labor. They have expanded far beyond the "jobs ordinary Americans won't do", the standard line of those for illegal immigration. I personally know many tradesmen who are either out of the biz or making less than they did 10 to 15 years ago. That's not the American Dream. We need to fix that.


Well I have been a tradesman for 20 years. I answered an ad in paper in the NE to go work in Texas in 1999.

The trades wages have been stagnated since the 70's when carpenters unions started falling.

People want cheap stuff so cutting out labor is huge. It's not only lower wages the employers don't pay workman's comp, have adequate safety, bathrooms available, or pay the taxes in most case, then when they get hurt they send them to the clinics and emergency room.

Without employers the illegals would not come. If you Crack down on the employers which is not being done because all this is a gimmick, people will not come.

I don't like the situation at all, but I seriously don't look at the illegals as the problem. If I came from a crappy war torn place and it was as easy as going to a job and getting one I would swim the Rio grand as well.

I look at the illegals like guys selling dime bags of Marijuana in comparison to the drug lords exploiting them to do so.

edit on 11-8-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 02:02 PM
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a reply to: luthier

There is a lot of truth to this post. I would only add that Illegals do not just come here for work, i.e. fleeing violence, political unrest or environmental disaster, and rejoining family.



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 02:12 PM
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a reply to: kyleplatinum

This is true but the cover for all the nefarious stuff is the masses that do come for those reasons. For instance I live in place that the a sheriff was jailed for a drug ring with illegals. If it wasn't a normal thing to have Spanish only speakers in kitchens across the US it would be harder to blend in. They were using bars to move the drugs.

My point in these statements is if the Mexicans are being addressed as the problem it's never going to be fixed.

If you bust a guy selling dime bags another one takes his place maybe selling something worse. The point would be to address the problem. The kingpin causing the problems.

Which IMO is how the heck say a poultry plant can hire 1000 at a time and not get caught.


edit on 11-8-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Unions in the trades started to fail as the job pool of illegals were there to fill the void at far lower wages. It's the chicken vs egg arguement, which came first, the collapse of trade unions or the influx of cheap, often illegal labor. Without a ready pool of people willing to take their jobs for half the wages, odds are the trades would still be full of people earning very good wages. One has only to look at the wages in the trades to see that illegal immigration has hurt, it's obvious, as your example of stagnated wages shows. Without illegals flooding the labor market, wages in the trades would have remained good to great paying jobs.

Yes, employers willing to look the other way while subcontractors hire illegals is a huge problem and needs to be fixed with fangs in enforcement. Just as big is the illegal pool of workers available. No illegals to work those jobs, wages stay high. With more and more jobs being lost to automation in the upcoming decades, doesn't it make sense to have those fewer remaining jobs go to US Citizens and people here legally? Silly concept I know. If you want a $15 minimum wage, it's more doable if you have a smaller pool of workers here legally paying the full amount of taxes they should.

I feel bad for illegals, but I even feel worse for those here Legally who have been impacted by the cheap labor illegals provide. We are not the world's destination for badly run countries and economies. If we had a surplus of jobs and wealth for the vast majority of American Citizens, having illegals here wouldn't be as big of a deal. As it stands, illegals here are hurting wages for many Citizens not simply filling empty voids. Put it this way, if there were 5 to 6 Million less workers in the US, what would happen to wages for the remaining Legal workers? I rest my case.



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 03:32 PM
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a reply to: pavil

Unions collapsed far before the illegal influx started 30 years ago.

It was more policies in states that created the right to work philosophies like Texas. What it did was take away things like state exams for contractors to get a licence. I have been a tradesman my entire life and am union trained cabinet maker and was part of a furniture guild.

When we switched from the gold standard and began exclusively using the cpi to control inflation is the egg. Labor and wage stagnation was purposely done to stay competitive in global markets as well as the greedy aspects of profit and price controls.

I know you want a scapegoat and boogeyman buy it isn't Mexicans. It's the US government policy and employers.

The Mexicans are merely pawns. Going after pawns never does any good.
edit on 11-8-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 03:45 PM
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a reply to: luthier

I hear your points, policy hasn't been great for the American Worker. Still that being said. Less workers here would equate, given free market forces, into higher wages. The pool of illegals is a hindrance to higher wages.

Illegals aren't scapegoats, they are illegal, just as much as those who would employ them. Personally, I'd go after both pieces of the puzzle together. Unions abandoned the home building market and nonunion and illegals filled that void and expanded from there. There are as usual, more than one cause for the effects we see. Better get used to falling or stagnated wages if you aren't will to address the causes. Globalism......doesn't it feel good?



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 03:59 PM
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a reply to: pavil

Globalism......doesn't it feel good?


Lol, no it doesn't. I appreciate the conversation and keeping me honest on details.

I just have reached my wits end about a decade ago when I was looking for some extra paint and found only turds. Because yes, they don't give these guys Porta Johns.

My issue is deporting a guy or gal who got whatever stupid tax Id you can get to work here illegally I forget what it's called. Bought houses etc it doesn't seem moral to say well we enjoyed the lower prices and more per Sq ft but thanks your use is over. Or helped keep produce low enough for a factory worker to also have a car.

It's all make believe and printing presses now so honestly I don't know what the answer is to unravel the mess.

I do think the lack of conversation about employment enforcement (remember e verify?) And punishing the abusers is very suspect about intentions. Which is where my skepticism comes from that anyone including trump is doing anything but manipulative symbolism with no substance.

For instance he increased arrests without increasing the courts. So what we will get is private prisons housing immigrants because the courts are already a year backed up for each case before adding a larger rate increase in arrests.

Beware of propaganda.


edit on 11-8-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: pavil

Also let's say we are the liberal and conservative points of view.

Based on our conversation I think we could make a deal or bipartisan bill.

Let's say we come down hard on employers as a first faze, having already set up a judicial prosecution system to handle our numbers, and use the money from fines and confiscation to pay for the process. For those who have invested in property as families we allow a naturalization process, payed for by the seized funds of illegal employers assets. English, the whole normal process.

Strict deportation enforcement after the grace period for the type of illegal described above and a fairly quick temporary work visa process for labor voids stifling positive economic growth.

Eta. I didn't go to Harvard or Yale so I may be really not as smart as Washington breeds but cracking down on employment would be a self deportation type of situation for a great deal of people.


edit on 11-8-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 06:44 PM
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The billion dollars was the subsidy paid for cheap labor by the American middle class so the one percent can continue to rake in crazy profits. It looks like the policy worked quite well, and will continue to do so in the future. We are running out of people to exploit.



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 06:46 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Enforce sALL the laws at once. No blanket amnesty, no grace period once announced. Why to we have to use the employer fines to pay for a path to citizenship? Secure the border, enforce our immigration and labor laws. Hit employers with hard fines after 1st occurance with heavy financial fines and possible jail time for multiple offender employers including senior MGMT. Set amounts of legal immigration based on our economic needs with set amounts of real refugees. Over stay your visa.....deported. Do a felony while here .....go back to your home country. Path to citizenship for people who haven't broken any other laws other than Illegal immigration. The path to citizenship will have fines and back taxes due as a requirement/penalty. I would also add no tax credits for those back years and no public assistance for a period of 3 to 5 years going forward. Also as part of reform, no anchor babies going forward. I don't have to be nice for those that broke the law. Becoming an American citizen is a privilege to those that aren't born here by U.S. parentage, not a right. You want to stay, these are the rules. Don't want to follow them then you can return home. I'm giving those here illegally and upstanding a chance to become citizens but they shouldn't have it as easy as those who did it legally. I'm not really into much compromise other than that. That's being generous enough.
edit on 11-8-2017 by pavil because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 06:48 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Btw, I've enjoyed this conversation as well.



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 06:52 PM
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a reply to: pavil

Why do people always bother asking and proposing things like this?

The owners of america, the real owners, have their own plans.



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 07:03 PM
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a reply to: pavil

The reason is moral. Politicians and employers allowed a system where an illegal family could own a home often out right in cash, but also through a tax id program expansion (where they could get mortgages)

The reasons are practical. We have a legal system where it takes a process to push people through the system. Self deportation through an employment crackdown is a massive cost saver and logistical simplification. It would be nearly impossible to deport 12 to 20 million. And extremely costly. It requires judicial and law enforcement expansion.

The end result will be a net labor loss and price elevati>on in several staple industries.

The other result will be massive lawsuits when the visa application process creates a situation where people can't access their properties when it's frozen with mass applications.

The logistics are far more important than perceived law morality. There is no longer a moral us goverentry argument. Both parties allowed and encouraged the mass immigration. At some point you have to review enlightenment philosophy of our founders and see who the bad guys are.

You cut the head off the snake and it dies. The bs being proposed by trump is demagoguery. As we speak they are planning private prisons to house the newly arrested. All on our dime.

edit on 11-8-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 07:27 PM
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And that's just in the UK! LOL

On another note the other day the local children’s daycare programme ran a trip out to a local forest with
with it's own theme park etc. I live in a small market town in north Yorkshire.
3 quarters of the trip was filled with Syrian refugees who got there names down 1st.

They could not speak a word of English there children were out of control and they littered the park
with all there rubbish rather than tidy up. DISGRACEFUL.

you can imagine the sadness of us white English folk who had there day tainted cos of this.
truly a sad site and day. REBUILD YOUR OWN COUNTRY AND FIGHT FOR IT! DO NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OURS!
it's reaching breaking point. also no interaction,even the children would shun ours and scare them away from playing on the same rides with them. sad very sad.



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 07:31 PM
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double jinx
edit on 11/8/2017 by stealthyaroura because: posty post post



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 08:44 PM
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El Paso, Texas is the same way. Need to go to the Social Security Office? Call and make an appointment for an English assistant (fact, no joke). Go to the Main Post Office on Alameda Street on welfare and unemployment check day...watch Mexicans come out with US Post Office 'flats' full of checks and return to Mexico(I have done it). One day I went to the Texas drivers license office in Northwestern El Paso...I heard the clerk and 'security guard' tell a group of Mexicans to go file for Social Security, accept the denial letter (they had no US address at the time), bring the letter back and they could get a license and register to vote! Speaking of voting, when voting time comes around, there are signs telling the illegals which button to push, no explanation, just which button.
I could go on and on, but this is life on the border...



posted on Aug, 11 2017 @ 09:05 PM
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a reply to: daveinats

I wonder if Rick perry or Greg abott knew it was going on?




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