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Illegal Immigrants Received Over $1 Billion in Welfare in Just Two Years

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posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 08:44 PM
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a reply to: avgguy

That isn't exactly true. You can read some actual peer reviewed studies. What they do unquestionably do is save their employers a ton of money. Sw get pushed to the consumer.

Again, it's the employers to go after...the side effect is self deportation.

The other way around doesn't work. If they know there is work they will come.




posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 08:46 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

In that case why not use where they got their info from as the source???

As others have pointed out, some sources like to use bad data and twist the information to suit their narratives.



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 08:47 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

Thats over 10 grand a family, almost a thousand a month.

I couldnt get more than 45 bucks with 3 dependants if I applied now in NY as a US citizen!

Why do we even pay taxes anymore?


edit on 8 10 2017 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 08:49 PM
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a reply to: tadaman

Because if you don't they might take all your stuff and attach your wages or throw you in jail and ruin your life.



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 08:52 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

The moral thing to do because these people were majority wise exploited by employers to save them money and raise profits, sometimes lower cost, is to Crack down hard on employmnet and create a pathway that is fairly strict with sponsored immigrants during a grace period to get everyone on the books, make a seasonal and temp visa system, and deport those unwilling to comply.

But hey why solve the problem when it can be used to drive a partisan wedge in debate.



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 08:54 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: kyleplatinum

That' makes a nice slogan but I'm afraid life isn't that simple.

I mean "Work Hard, Contribute, be Positive" is pretty vague man. Successful people don't always work hard or contribute and aren't always positive. Then there are people who do all those things and fail.

Work hard at what???

Contribute to who???

Be positive......but how about when life sucks for no reason of your doing???

I suppose it makes for good advice but that's hardly the secret to being successful in such a complex world.


"Work hard at what?" --- um, maybe a job.

"Contribute to who???" -- um, maybe society.

And for your last one -- Life is and will never be fair.

For as much as civilization has helped us, it has also made us super soft and complacent.



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 08:55 PM
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Illegals may well get a quarter of CA welfare spending. If they make up a significant proportion of the total number of people in CA who need welfare, is that necessarily a problem? Or would you rather have them starve on the streets around you?

Feed 'em till you chuck 'em back where they came. It's the humane thing to do. If the problem is illegal immigrants, starvation isn't the answer; better deportation control is. And from what I gather, Trump is clamping down hard on that issue.

The number of homeless veterans in CA isn't mentioned in this piece, so I'm not sure that the claim that illegal immigrants are pushing to the front of the queue can be considered as verified. I'm pretty sure that the number of homeless veterans in CA must be far lower than the number of illegal immigrants.

Also, I'm fairly sure that the same people who want care for homeless veterans are mainly the same people who want the welfare state rolled back. Which is an interesting piece of cognitive dissonance.



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 09:03 PM
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a reply to: luthier

I thought of that same idea a while back.

They want to come here and work. We want the cheap labor and the work done. So why not have it so everyone wins. Employers get what they want. The workers get registered and a path to living her legally. Etc.

It just makes sense.



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 09:05 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

I figured you would get it



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 09:07 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: luthier

I thought of that same idea a while back.

They want to come here and work. We want the cheap labor and the work done. So why not have it so everyone wins. Employers get what they want. The workers get registered and a path to living her legally. Etc.

It just makes sense.


Why should we import low skilled labor so companies don't have to pay higher wages? So what if someone wants to come here? Immigration is not a two way street. The country has to decide who we want to immigrate and why. Those hurt the most by illegal immigration are lower skilled blacks. This is why unemployment is so high in urban centers.



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 09:10 PM
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a reply to: kyleplatinum

Yeah, Um, you can work hard at a job and be dirt poor your whole life still.

But yeah, you should always do your best at the things you do, like a job. That doesn't mean you'll be successful. You can manipulate and scam your way to the top too or have it rolled out for you through other ways.

Contribute to society huh. How does that make you successful. I mean we all contribute to society whether we know it or not. Living in society forces you to contribute to it. It's a feedback loop. Society IS all of us taking and contributing as a whole.

I'm not saying you're wrong so don't get defensive. I know what your saying. But it's a slogan. A bumper sticker. It will make you as successful as saying "Always wear clean underwear." I mean it's good to do those things but not a plan for success in any way.



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 09:11 PM
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originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: luthier

I thought of that same idea a while back.

They want to come here and work. We want the cheap labor and the work done. So why not have it so everyone wins. Employers get what they want. The workers get registered and a path to living her legally. Etc.

It just makes sense.


Why should we import low skilled labor so companies don't have to pay higher wages? So what if someone wants to come here? Immigration is not a two way street. The country has to decide who we want to immigrate and why. Those hurt the most by illegal immigration are lower skilled blacks. This is why unemployment is so high in urban centers.


Because there are labor voids.

For instance boom towns. Texas couldn't get enough carpenters even putting ads nationally.

Rick perry loved illegals during his massive growth period.

Why should immigrants take skilled American jobs?

The problem is we already allowed it for thirty years and the consumers benefited from lower prices. It would be immoral to say well thanks yall and do nothing to the people who got rich off their backs.
edit on 10-8-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 09:19 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Look, I agree that businesses should pay people a living wage. If they did then we wouldn't need illegals to do these jobs.

But that's not the world we live in.

But it's good to hear you suggest that jobs should be paying more money to their employees.

That isn't your typical position.



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 09:31 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

The problem is or can be people get fixated on more money.

Money is completely subjective in the free central planning context.

We can make oranges cheaper or you get paid more to make them cheaper, but whatever you do costs more etc...

We are at a very chaotic market model with rampant speculation.

The thing to start with is reminding people how to be civil to each other. Especially if it's a simple disagreement that can be done without anger. Maybe even think about the oppositions ideas and check and make sure yours are right.

Heard a great lyric the other day.
'Cause any kid can add two and two
If you show him a path to the truth
Monkey see, monkey do


edit on 10-8-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 09:38 PM
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a reply to: avgguy

Jesus. What's next? Some stats from FAIR? What do you know about CIS? Why do you think that CIS is a reliable source for anything? As with anything Rector puts out, CIS is just garbage for right-wing anti-immigration rhetoric. CIS is actually worse of an offender and hence, more often cited by dishonest/stupid GOP politicians.

Here, I'll once more turn to the popular right-wing think tank, CATO.

Center for Immigration Studies Report Exaggerates Immigrant Welfare Use


The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) released a new report this morning on immigrant welfare use. CIS found that immigrants use far more welfare than natives do. CIS’ methodology, parts of which are suspect, is what produced this result – as we’ve pointed out to CIS multiple times. They also omitted a lot of information that would make for a better comparison between immigrants and natives. Simply put, the CIS study does not compare apples to apples but rather apples to elephants.

The first issue is that CIS counts the welfare use of households, which includes many native-born American citizens, rather than individuals. There might be some good reasons to do this but the immigrant-headed household variable CIS uses is ambiguous, poorly defined, and less used in modern research for those reasons. To CIS’ credit they try to separate out households with children but didn’t separate out American-born spouses. There is debate largely over whether to count the American born children of immigrants as a welfare cost of immigration. If we should count them, shouldn’t we also count the welfare use of grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and great-great-grandchildren of immigrants? Such a way of counting would obviously produce a negative result but it would also not be informative.


Oh, what a surprise. They use the same underhanded tactics to misrepresent reality that Rector uses. Keep reading.


The third issue with the CIS report is that they omitted the cash value of welfare benefits consumed by immigrant and native households. CIS only analyzed the use rates for each welfare program but they do not tell you how much welfare was actually consumed. For instance, the cash value for many welfare benefits are determined by the number of eligible members living in the household. If only half of the members of a household are eligible then the benefits are reduced. Furthermore, CIS does not report how long immigrant households are in these benefit programs compared to natives. Immigrants could be on these programs more frequently but for shorter periods of time and with fewer beneficiaries per household – which is roughly what we found.


Every time Rector & Sheffield or CIS put out a study, they are immediately torn apart by fact checkers on both sides of the aisle. It never fails though that right-wing media and deceitful politicians, who both have an interest in ginning up outrage with identity politics built on fabrications, spread this disinformation far and wide to unsuspecting right-wingers.

Rector & Sheffield are in it for the money I think. CIS is part of John Tanton's network (FAIR, CIS, NumbersUSA, etc). Do a little research into Tanton and you'll discover some interesting things about him.

For one, he's a eugenicist. Secondly, he started out with... wait for it... leftist conservation groups like The Sierra Club. Why? Because unbeknownst to many who gobble this s# up, Tanton's worldview is one that most of you ascribe to progressive boogeyman and Agenda 21. That is, he thinks there are far too many people and they're bad for the environment.

Don't take my word for it, he admits to or hints to most of it right on his own website.


John Tanton is a strong conservationist and leading advocate for the environment. In 1975, his essay "Human Migration" won the Mitchell Prize contest and was published as the cover article of The Ecologist.

He founded the Petoskey regional Audubon Society and has been active in a large number of environmental organizations. Dr. Tanton's recognition that continued human population growth is a significant contributor to environmental problems lead to his involvement with the Sierra Club Population Committee and to becoming President and board member of Zero Population Growth.
John Tanton is pro immigrant and pro legal immigration - at environmentally sustainable immigration numbers.

As immigration became the driving force behind unending U.S. population growth, John Tanton founded FAIR - the Federation for American Immigration Reform. He is publisher and former editor of The Social Contract. John Tanton is pro immigrant and pro legal immigration, but at reduced, sustainable numbers. He states:


Look up John Tanton and Quinacrine. Quinacrine is antiprotozoal drug that can be used for sterilizing women.
edit on 2017-8-10 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 09:41 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Edumakated

Look, I agree that businesses should pay people a living wage. If they did then we wouldn't need illegals to do these jobs.

But that's not the world we live in.

But it's good to hear you suggest that jobs should be paying more money to their employees.

That isn't your typical position.


I believe wages should be determined by supply and demand. The issue is that supply is being artificially increased to keep wages low through illegal immigration.

I also see the negative impact it has on our own citizens. We have some urban communities with like 40% unemployment. Why should we be giving jobs to illegals when there are people right here already in the US who could work those jobs?

Wages would rise for the least skilled workers if we weren't continuing to import more of them...



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 09:42 PM
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originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: kyleplatinum

Yeah, Um, you can work hard at a job and be dirt poor your whole life still.

But yeah, you should always do your best at the things you do, like a job. That doesn't mean you'll be successful. You can manipulate and scam your way to the top too or have it rolled out for you through other ways.

Contribute to society huh. How does that make you successful. I mean we all contribute to society whether we know it or not. Living in society forces you to contribute to it. It's a feedback loop. Society IS all of us taking and contributing as a whole.

I'm not saying you're wrong so don't get defensive. I know what your saying. But it's a slogan. A bumper sticker. It will make you as successful as saying "Always wear clean underwear." I mean it's good to do those things but not a plan for success in any way.


Well, I think you are very wrong, get defensive if you like.

What do you consider dirt poor?

Life is very dynamic, if you are dirt poor and feel unsuccessful, you have the power (if you choose) to change course.

There's another one you can add to your slogan book.



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 09:43 PM
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a reply to: luthier

What gets me is the misplaced blame. So many want to blame immigrants for job loss, lower pay, etc.

But illegals have no power to do any of that. Businesses wanted more profit which they can achieve through cheaper labor or higher prices. It's easier to get the cheap labor than get people to pay more for stuff. So they exploit the labor of those who are willing to do it for pennies on the dollar because it's still better than where they were.

Nobody is taking American jobs. They are being given away to those who will work illegally. But it's the employer giving it away, not the immigrant taking it.

Capitalists love this too. I mean if you wanted to work for cheaper they'd give the job back to Americans. They love watching people race to the lowest salary.

But we don't consider them the problem, it's always the little guy. It's always the poor who are hurting the rich somehow. Or the illegal hurting the American. But the illegal and poor have no power to hurt those above them in that way. But we never look in the opposite direction to see what's really happening.



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 09:45 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Juan didn't get his second Mercedes from welfare but his boss did.



posted on Aug, 10 2017 @ 09:50 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

Key word here is "illegals"

If the illegals can't get here, which is how it should be, then the shady business owners would have no cheap illegals working for them.



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