SCI/TECH: The New Military: Robots with Human DNA

Originally posted by soficrow
Alone, maybe - but viewed in the context of the other developments cited above? ...Are you saying these various technologies and breakthroughs cannot be integrated?

I'm not saying this particular project absolutely couldn't be integrated into something later, in some capacity, but what I mean is that this is not any sort of fusion of biology and electronics or anything like that. It's a way of using DNA sequences to solve complex mathematical problems. It also is very impractical for the application you are talking about. The DNA information has be very specifically designed to solve a specific problem. It's also very resource and labor intensive. THUS FAR it doesn't seem to be possible to use one DNA sequence to solve a series of problems. This is not to say that DNA computing won't improve, it inevitably will. But I don't really believe it's a dangerous thing, at least on the level at which I am speaking of.

Personally, I am a professional scientist, and bioethics is a huge interest of mine. I also tend to disagree with the majority of scientists on these types of issues. Even in graduate school, I was astonished at the level of hubris demonstrated by many of my colleagues. Many, maybe most, actually believe genetic engineering can have little or no consequences, and that we've 'got it under control,' or 'are just using natural processes.' The latter statement in my opinion is akin to describing toxic waste as a natural substance, which I suppose has to be true on some level or by some definition.

Originally posted by mattison0922

Originally posted by soficrow
Alone, maybe - but viewed in the context of the other developments cited above? ...Are you saying these various technologies and breakthroughs cannot be integrated?

I'm not saying this particular project absolutely couldn't be integrated into something later, in some capacity, but what I mean is that this is not any sort of fusion of biology and electronics or anything like that. It's a way of using DNA sequences to solve complex mathematical problems.

Thanks. ....Could you also comment on these projects, please? ...These are the ones that interest me most, especially considering the various self-powering methods now used...

New micro-robots called microbots grow their own muscles from living animals. The microbots are grown on silicon chips, using the same principles and similar technologies as those used to make integrated circuits. "I can make hundreds of thousands as easily as I can make one," says nanotechnologist Carlo Montemagno. Blending biological and mechanical parts with phenomenal precision, microbots are a fully integrated system, blurring the lines between men and machines.

Microbots: Towards a Better Military

And this:

It needs your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle

Erm, excuse the sensationalist header please

Mattison

Personally, I am a professional scientist, and bioethics is a huge interest of mine. I also tend to disagree with the majority of scientists on these types of issues. Even in graduate school, I was astonished at the level of hubris demonstrated by many of my colleagues. Many, maybe most, actually believe genetic engineering can have little or no consequences, and that we've 'got it under control,' or 'are just using natural processes.' The latter statement in my opinion is akin to describing toxic waste as a natural substance, which I suppose has to be true on some level or by some definition.

Allthough human muscle don't tend to be nearly as powerfull as machines, nature has desigend muscle work with much higher efficiency and less friction losses than many combustion engines.

Therefor one could imagine a muscle based "fuekl cell" that provides electricity in your home, just feed it some scraps and leftovers.

For ethical and practible reasons one doesn't build the substrate/strands based on flimpsy human muscle but lets say the pec-wing muscle of birds, or jaw-muscle of hyenas, these are muscles/neural networks that etremely excel in endurance or raw strength. a couple of hyane jaw muscles in series, could maybe compete with some heavy hydrolic pinch, and cut the metal roof from old cars

With the scraps and leftovers, i really mean a liquidized and homogenous feedstock based upon those scraps, but the muscle fuel cell, could provide the electricity to prepare its own food in an external pressurevessel.



[edit on 9-2-2005 by Countermeasures]

Originally posted by soficrow
Thanks. ....Could you also comment on these projects, please? ...These are the ones that interest me most, especially considering the various self-powering methods now used...

New micro-robots called microbots grow their own muscles from living animals. The microbots are grown on silicon chips, using the same principles and similar technologies as those used to make integrated circuits. "I can make hundreds of thousands as easily as I can make one," says nanotechnologist Carlo Montemagno. Blending biological and mechanical parts with phenomenal precision, microbots are a fully integrated system, blurring the lines between men and machines.

Did you post this in another thread, I mean in addition to the link you've provided? I feel like I've responded to this before. Well.... anyway... I actually know Montemagno. He was considering collaborating with us, back when he was making what I will loosely refer to as 'nanopropellors.' Carlo, is an engineer by training, and tends to have that mindset. He's not really interested in the practical applications of his work, rather he's fascinated with whether or not something can be done, and proving that HE is the one who can do it. While I don't believe this technology is at a 'dangerous' level currently, the implications of nano machines using living cells to 'grow' muscles is staggering. When they get the technology to 'self assemble' the silicon portion of these nanobots is when we'd really have to worry. One hopes that they engineered some kind of internal control so that these entities are not 'free-living.'

And this:

It needs your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle

Erm, excuse the sensationalist header please

Seems to be the same project, more or less. I wonder what they mean when they say 'use glucose for power?' Power for the nanobots? That is significant. Powering partially inorganic nanobots with biologically derived organic molecules is a significant step towards creating free-living, self-assembling bio-silico hybrids. As I said before the potential for this is staggering. I think the idea of free living, self reproducing machines is more scary than antibiotic resistant 'superbugs,' or engineered biological disease. With engineered biological disease, at least we've a chance at 'beating' it, but I can't imagine an immune system knowing how to deal with tiny machines ripping apart tissues to power their existence.

Originally posted by soficrow
Can you explain (simply) for the less well-informed - and also, explain why the 2 cannot be used together?

Bah, i am certainly not qualified enough to even know if they can't be used together. I had origianlly read the orignal article as meanign that they were using programs that solve problems with 'genetic algorithms', whereas this is actual dna computing, using the physical structure of dna to compute, rather than running equations.

Originally posted by mattison0922
I think the idea of free living, self reproducing machines is more scary than antibiotic resistant 'superbugs,' or engineered biological disease. With engineered biological disease, at least we've a chance at 'beating' it, but I can't imagine an immune system knowing how to deal with tiny machines ripping apart tissues to power their existence.

Without even getting into nanotech - have you seen this?


Fly-eating robot powers itself


....I need to look back over my files, but self-powering, regeneration, reproduction and generation are big on the list...


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Originally posted by soficrow
Without even getting into nanotech - have you seen this?


Fly-eating robot powers itself

I have seen this. I think I've seen it here, and probably via a post of yours. It's pretty astonishing. The amazing thing is that I work in the field, and I had no idea that robots powering themselves with organic materials was this far along. Would be interested in seeing other stuff re: self powering if you've got it available.

Originally posted by mattison0922

Originally posted by soficrow
Without even getting into nanotech - have you seen this?


Fly-eating robot powers itself

I have seen this. I think I've seen it here, and probably via a post of yours. It's pretty astonishing. The amazing thing is that I work in the field, and I had no idea that robots powering themselves with organic materials was this far along. Would be interested in seeing other stuff re: self powering if you've got it available.

...Self-powered robots are way along - especially in nanotech. This will change the entire concept of "the military" - and judging by recent breakthroughs, is very close.

...I'm thinking we need a "New Military" thread or research project to pull all of this stuff together and analyse it - and id the implications. You in?


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Originally posted by soficrow
...I'm thinking we need a "New Military" thread or research project to pull all of this stuff together and analyse it - and id the implications. You in?

Sure, I'll participate, but it seems like you're really the expert and are much more knowledgable than I about this particular topic. Also, my posting may be limited over the next couple of months. I've got a grant due soon, and am trying to get a huge review of antibiotic resistance written. But, I'm up for it.

....first step was touching the moon."

Robots that power themselves via consumption of animal matter

Robots that breed, and thus by extension, evolve

Robots intergrating "skin"


Well, the "tech" of breeding up via the mating of lesser components has been at the root of some of our major drug thereapies/discoveries. So has it been in practice for CS.

In 50 years, when I'm an old man, I wonder where we'll be at? Given the distance of the Wright Bros. to the breaking of the Sound Barrier, I guess we will have "Terminators" by that time.

Originally posted by Bout Time
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In 50 years, when I'm an old man, I wonder where we'll be at? Given the distance of the Wright Bros. to the breaking of the Sound Barrier, I guess we will have "Terminators" by that time.

Most of the "weapons watching" here at ATS focuses on big stuff - but IMO - where it's really happening is in biotech-nanotech fusions - and we need to evaluate microscopic weapons, NOT the Talons and Terminators...

...Biotech-nanotech fusions are much more advanced than we know...


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