Here’s What Happens When Male Marines Go Up Against Mixed-Gender

I can't believe people are actually arguing over this. The usual exceptions to rule in favor of that one woman in a thousand who can do as many pushups as the average man. Citing history and forgetting to mention using women was usually out of pure desperation when asked to do physical roles.

I served several years in the Army. Not a SINGLE female could do as many pushups as the average soldier and they were "girl pushups" because they used their knees. Pullups? lol, they could barely do 2 or 3, much less 30-50. Running, yeah they could do it...as long as they weren't strapped with 40-80lb ruck sacks. Makes things a little different you see.

In the field, they were practically useless. We ended up having to carry our own gear as well as theirs after about 10 miles of marching to where ever. There was a "sick call" truck that would follow us during training and always had a bunch of females in it..I remember because guys being guys still whistled and tried to get their attention when they went by which of course exposes the biggest problem. Distraction. Like it or not, war is not a "safe space", you have no clue.

It's amazing that women can't simply say "Yes, men are stronger and physically more capable than men" without injecting nonsense.

a reply to: toysforadults

I don't like the idea of women in combat, myself, and I am a woman, and a veteran. I can shoot, though, better than a lot of guys! Women don't belong in combat. Not the same physically or mentally.

originally posted by: FHomerK
a reply to: toysforadults

Now now....

All of that has changed. Emotions override reality. We ARE ALL THE SAME.

Welcome to the snowflake era. You get trophies for being on the team, without winning, without even showing up.

I'm reminded of this moment at work where they were training people for community outreach in a major emergency. It would require going into all of the worst neighborhoods and worst possible spots. Anyways, someone brought up that maybe it would be good for a woman to be paired with a guy for safety, and some naive people were all like "Women are the same and can do everything a man can. There isn't a difference." To me, I was thinking that this effort to pretend women aren't weaker or smaller on average could put some women in danger, sending them alone to the worst parts of the City in possibly dangerous times.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: CreationBro

ugh please I mean really?

do we need to sit here go over every outlier to justify a position in a debate?

you are on ATS I expect more from you and you should already know that outliers do not justify positions in a debate

Right, it's averages in this case.

Just like, there are women that are bigger or stronger than some men, without a doubt. But your average women is weaker and smaller than your average man. That matters in a war situation or hand to hand combat, not to mention packing heavy gear for long distances.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Just for the record, my wife can out shoot me with a hand gun.
But not a rifle. No clue why.

One day she called me from work and said meet her at the range, she'll bring pizza.
Damn she's sexy...

I married a woman the police called "Annie Oakley".... and that name came years before when we had an incident. Recently, she felt like she needed to take a shot at a criminal in our yard. He was one who had already been arrested and convicted but not sentenced yet for assault but she got arrested by a Barney Fife with a badge. This woman doesn't cook and i married her, she likes sports and she looks like Miss America now and back then. I got lucky in love like you did Bluntone. I can out-shoot my wife but that is because I had good M 16/ and the 1911 version 45 training in the Army in the 80's. She just shoots wildly and is MUCH more dangerous like in an old Western movie. I happen to be an environmental scientist for my profession and that is some boring stuff for her.

a reply to: Hecate666

I'll second the "no male midwives" sentiment. Nor Ob/Gyns.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: InhaleExhale

originally posted by: abeverage
How well do the women score when being wounded, drugged or interrogated?

You do see where I am going with this?

Yes,

Women have a much higher tolerance for pain than men do.

Is that what you were getting at?

That's actually an old wives tale. Men have a higher pain tolerance .. which was obvious to me since I was about 5.

abcnews.go.com...
www.sciencealert.com...

And it's a real, biological difference. Women have more pain receptors with which to feel pain.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: CreationBro

ugh please I mean really?

do we need to sit here go over every outlier to justify a position in a debate?

you are on ATS I expect more from you and you should already know that outliers do not justify positions in a debate

Right, it's averages in this case.

Just like, there are women that are bigger or stronger than some men, without a doubt. But your average women is weaker and smaller than your average man. That matters in a war situation or hand to hand combat, not to mention packing heavy gear for long distances.

Having commanded a unit with both males and females there are advantages and disadvantages. No the women could keep up as far as carrying guys had 60 pound pack females 25. And the guys still outpaced them. However in things like scouts women tended to do better. I found women had a patience that most young men didnt. So even on menial tasks tended to do a better job. Also noticed females found it very easy to comand other soldiers and actually get them to do it.

Now the honesty in Afghanistan I tended to keep females off patrol duties and instead used them for base security. But that was not do to their job abilities but more I knew what would happen if they were captured by the Talabhan.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: CreationBro

ugh please I mean really?

do we need to sit here go over every outlier to justify a position in a debate?

you are on ATS I expect more from you and you should already know that outliers do not justify positions in a debate

Right, it's averages in this case.

Just like, there are women that are bigger or stronger than some men, without a doubt. But your average women is weaker and smaller than your average man. That matters in a war situation or hand to hand combat, not to mention packing heavy gear for long distances.

Yes they are but as in all things there is exceptions. And I worked with some females that were better equipped then me to handle combat. What I would like to see is keep the standards the same and just let people qualify.

However that's not what happens they lower the standards which causes some to be a burden while others shined. I had a Sargeant that I loved having her with me on ops she was paranoid and would spot things before I would lol.

a reply to: roguetechie

Hey Rogue do you have a link I cant find anything alternative to the official story on the Cole
even a google search term will help yield some results

Thanks

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: InTheLight

No it's not true as a brown belt in jiu-jitsu I promise you there is no way a woman can become manlike

if you look at competitive combat sports the women's division starts and finishes at WAY lower weight classes and there is a reason for that

it's just facts, reality, cold hard reality

sorry ladies nothing against you and yes obviously there is a spectrum however there is also an average

Sorry, but you are forgetting sniper and intel...as usual.

Can you show that men and women have the same standards for physical fitness in the military.

originally posted by: CreationBro
a reply to: toysforadults

So I have a weakened mind for believing there are women out there with notable marksmanship, comparable to a man's, if not better in some cases?

Is that the gist of this, or could you correct the score for me?

You are not wrong, but it is the exception rather than the rule.

Perhaps the larger part at play is performance (of this type) under pressure - or the simulated killing of other people - that men are just better equipped for than women.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: mOjOm

there is great rolls for women, such as recon

women can collect data way easier than men in fact they already do that in the CIA and in Army SF

Recon teams are often involved in unscheduled firefights.

Did you mean undercover spying? There have been studies showing that women are much better at lying than men. (Not meant as a knock against women).

originally posted by: worldstarcountry...
a reply to: CreationBro

Israel is a good example of this.

Israeli service is mandatory, and therefore I disagree. I hardly ever see female IDF in the streets or combat ops in past videos. Where are they?? I assume most are on desk jobs, with your occasional border crossing/check point duty. Look at any of CNN's or anybody else's videos of IDF soldiers in videos and tell me how may men you see compared to women???

I would think they would be equally represented as it is mandatory, and yet I mostly only ever see men.

I visited Israel in 2000. You see just as many women IDF (99% are hot BTW) as there are men.

Then explain the Amazons of both Eurasia and Africa, especially the kingdom of Dahomey.
These deadly females did battles the old fashioned way, up close and personal mano o mano or should I say mano o womano.

Recommend the book Amazons of Black Sparta.
By Stanley B Alpern.

originally posted by: dreamingawake

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: johndeere2020

Good point but woman soldiers served alongside the Russian's during WW2 and the Russian soldiers still revenge raped the German's.

Any statistics on the units being mixed men and women that were committing rape?

I have tried to find something to no avail, a deeper look into the record's or some obscure site may have information but here are some pages that while not directly related will still shine a light not only upon the Russians (whom it seems' also raped there own woman as they liberated them from Nazi Captivity) but the German's and even the US soldiers.
www.spiegel.de...
www.spiegel.de...
uncensoredhistory.blogspot.co.uk...
www.telegraph.co.uk...

Aside from any physical/psychological differences between men and women...when bringing up examples of women fighting previously...lets remember times change.

I very much doubt most male soldiers today would be able to simply walk into relentless machine gun fire, watching all of their friends die, and continuing slowly forwards in open ground. But 100 years ago they did just that. We are not the same as we were and comparisons are therefore not entirely fair.


However, having said that, by the sounds of it the men in this 'test' were far more experienced in combat than the women so the test is completely useless. The experience level needs to be equal for all involved before you can start making any statements about its results. That's not to say they'd be any different, but a flawed test is a flawed test.

originally posted by: KissMyWookiee

originally posted by: CreationBro
a reply to: toysforadults

So I have a weakened mind for believing there are women out there with notable marksmanship, comparable to a man's, if not better in some cases?

Is that the gist of this, or could you correct the score for me?

You are not wrong, but it is the exception rather than the rule.

Perhaps the larger part at play is performance (of this type) under pressure - or the simulated killing of other people - that men are just better equipped for than women.

I've heard or read from several sources over the years that this is a very real problem when it comes to female infantry. Specifically they discussed seeing another man with whom you share a love and a bond only ever known by guys who live war and from second to second depend entirely on each other for taking care of one another when ill, making sure all are fed, ensuring their safety, doing what you can to boost your fellow soldiers spirits when he says he can't go on or staying days in a trench behind with him cuz he is unable to run the field and nearly immobilized by dysentery and putting a brave and happy face on for him even though the sights and smells of being there for him must be unbearable...

What these articles or speakers said was that an important piece of achieving victory many times in battles throughout history is seeing one of these men with whom you share something much more intimate than friendship die. It creates a certain slightly physiological and extremely psychological state which is referred to as several things but most commonly, "bloodlust." A state where normal fear, being careful, acting logically, etc. are suddenly suspended and the man is able to act without any concern for his well being and just storm toward the enemy dodging fire and take out the enemy even engaging in hand to hand combat with a guy twice his size and crushing him like a bug.

I guess too put it simply the raging adrenaline fueled state entered in aafter experiencing the loss of a relationship of the deepest kind of male bonding where cowardice and bravery cease to exist is supposedly a part of infantry soldiers who are on the front line. On the other hand, this state of being called bloodlust has not been witnessed in women. While men and women both have a superman superwoman state which they can access when their offspring are in danger, women show much more impressive feats of strength and physicality than men do IMHO. This doesn't offend me, why should the other way around be offensive?

**********§§§§(Unrelated- one of the coolest most awesome things I ever learned was that a man who was trapped in a blizzard in a minivan with his infant son or daughter for about a week or two obviously accessed this state and while I mentioned women will become stronger and more physical, men can become more feminine in a life and death situation- thank God he was a doctor because I can't picture any man BUT. a doctor knowing what to do. Knowing his baby would surely starve, the man forced the baby to suckle at his teat over and over and he didn't give up until finally he achieved the results he knew were possible- that in a situation where a child's life is at stake, a man will begin to lactate and produce just enough milk to keep a child alive, the hormones need only be given the "ok, its time and this is not a drill," signal. Cool eh? He fed the baby until rescuers came expecting a man and dead baby or two dead and they find a hungry but just fine baby and a hero dad probably pretty hungry himself.)§§§§***********************

a reply to: Spider879

Yeh and there were also many more shield maidens who fought than we were lead to believe

originally posted by: johndeere2020
The case for mixed gender is that women don't rape and they could act as "moral compass" of the group.

It might be a good enough compromise despite lower performance. US troops have superior equipment anyways

There are plenty of cases of female rapists.