Here’s What Happens When Male Marines Go Up Against Mixed-Gender

For those saying Russia... how many women died before they found a few that did well?

Also as mentioned they did not have much choice from what I read, if you could walk into battle you did.

we are a fairly safe nation, with an all volunteer force, and there is a very good reason we have standards for getting into combat arms. You do not want to find out if the person next to you will will fish or cut bait when the lead is flying, that gets people killed.

Since we do not need to grab every able bodied person to fight for our lives, we pick and choose based off past conflicts that set a standard for physical and mental requirements.

If a woman can actually make it, great, let her fight, I have heard things that concerned me about some of the experiments that have occurred to get women through ranger qualification.(if this was true it is wrong) If you have to require multiple attempts, be given a ranger as a "coach" to help you succeed, that is not passing the same as every guy faces, it is pushing a women through for reasons that do not involve the best getting through.

I was thinking recently how difficult it must be as a young guy in the military lately, so much normal behavior that gets you in trouble for young men being young men.

I'm a woman and when I was around 10 I wanted to join the foreign legion. Mostly because they were the most badass soldiers I could think of and I was always different. My dad laughed and said 'they don't take women'.
I was pissed but then I thought I can always become an airline pilot, to which my dad replied 'they don't take women either' [that was back in the 70s].
Oh my sense of justice exploded that day.

Fast forward now and hear what I have to say with life experience under my belt.
First of all, you are nowadays allowed to become a pilot as a woman, and I think so too. I am a really good driver, not a limp wristed woman or old man driver but one that loves her gears and enjoys our little sportscar. Yet I am always aware of things and had no accident in 30 years. So yes women should be pilots.

As to joining the army? Whoa, hell no. I don't want to be cannon fodder. Some women may want to, especially those with high testosterone but are they the average women? Nope.
So should women be disallowed to join the army?
Why not? We can't all have what we want and I totally agree that our bodies aren't really geared towards combat.

And if there are a few that would make good soldiers but can't...become a police officer honey. Or a border control officer or something else useful, where being a hardass woman can actually be really useful.

A dwarf can't become a basketball player and someone with low IQ can't become a professor of engineering. There are limits and they are there for a reason.

Why are women not glad that they don't have to go to war and get shot at? If you come from a country where there is National service and you have no choice, you appreciate it far more that women can't be drafted. The grass is always greener.

The same with high flying jobs. Women make excellent bosses but a lot of those that enjoy the unnecessary stress at the top again are those with more testosterone. I am glad they are allowed because they don't hinder anyone. A woman boss is just as good/bad/fair/unfair/bastard as any male boss.

But combat is a completely different story and so is domestic abuse. We are not meant to fight, we are also not meant to be punched in the face if we are smaller and weaker than the perpetrator. It can kill us.

Women are frigging different from men in so many ways [which doesn't mean we are worth less, only that we are specialised in different areas] and if we hinder the burly men in their jobs as soldiers, just keep us out [boobs, PMT and periods in the desert/jungle can't be good].

Oh and just to balance this. I don't think there should be male midwives [maybe if you are gay I could consider]. I know you want to be equal men, but come on, giving birth is a woman's thing, stay out of it, you have no idea about how our 'bits' feel and I consider that a definitive disadvantage.

Vive la difference!

The fact is less women actually qualify for combat, but some always will, for example a Brienne of Tarth from GOT or Pvt. Vasquez from Aliens those types of women. But don't tell me having somebody like Gal Gadot serving in your unit wouldn't be a distraction to the unit on a long deployment away from all other women, human nature is what it is.

originally posted by: CreationBro

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: CreationBro

ugh please I mean really?

do we need to sit here go over every outlier to justify a position in a debate?

you are on ATS I expect more from you and you should already know that outliers do not justify positions in a debate

You're right. Im a terrible ATS amateur. Debate over.

You hear that ladies? If you're good with a gun, you're just an unimportant "outlier" and don't need to be considered in this thread, the topic of which is women's proficiency with guns.

Logic denied.

You are a classic case of weakness.

Scared of the TRUTH.

I will tell any lady to her face that she will usually be inferior in every way physically in military terms...BECAUSE IT IS TRUE.

We are beyond sick of the diseased mentality your types encourage...

a reply to: toysforadults

Basically what it comes down to people is that women's minds and body are not designed for this.

So, basically the point of this thread is that you don't think women should serve in the military, or am I missing something?

I don't want to date/ marry a woman who acts like a dude.

Then don't. Simple as that.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Just for the record, my wife can out shoot me with a hand gun.
But not a rifle. No clue why.

One day she called me from work and said meet her at the range, she'll bring pizza.
Damn she's sexy...

This i can agree with..if i was to go to battle...and I WILL...i would want warrior powergirl beside me.

Our combined excellence would be breathtaking.

Different aspects of THIS types of soldier interaction...like wow.

originally posted by: CreationBro
a reply to: toysforadults

So I have a weakened mind for believing there are women out there with notable marksmanship, comparable to a man's, if not better in some cases?

Is that the gist of this, or could you correct the score for me?

The score is men 1, women zero, when it comes to-- exhaustive patrols, all night marches with heavy pack, then combat , then egress,

Marines arrive back at camp 5 days later exhausted, if women went along they would be left behind at some point because they can't carry the same combat load as a man, hike as far, endure combat and escape and evasion from consequences.

originally posted by: CreationBro
a reply to: toysforadults

So I have a weakened mind for believing there are women out there with notable marksmanship, comparable to a man's, if not better in some cases?

Is that the gist of this, or could you correct the score for me?

There are very notable female marksman - I know as I compete in PRS style matches - I've also served along side female soldier in actual combat (MP Corp allows females) and during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, combat MPs were essentially mechanized infantry, did the same job. At any rate - women can do just as well as men at both, however it's not the same across the board. You have to be one savage AF female to compare to the 'average' male soldier in combat. and by combat I don't mean you deployed to BIAP and did some Fobbit work and you're technically a 'combat vet' rather I'm talking women who have been blown up, shot at, and shot back.

I can't give you perfect stats, but say out of a company of soldiers, you'll have 20 females (of 120 males). of those males, all of them are physically capable of doing their jobs - no questions asked, but there is always a handful, maybe five, of those females who we cannot take on combat missions - they are given toc jobs, like terp guards or sitting at the comms monitoring our missions.

I'm not saying one way or another, but that's just how it went down - when lives are on the line, you put your SJW feelings aside and bench those who are a risk to the mission. this is a fact of life.

To end on a positive note, I have great respect for one particular femal soldier, I'll calle her "C", she was probably nothing more than 19 years old, deployed to Iraq as an e4, she was in a drivers role of a traditional MP team (team leader rides shotty as a TC running BFT, the lowest ranking individual was in the gunners turret, and your senior lower enlisted were drivers. So you had this 19 year old woman, driving a 10 Ton armored truck (bigger than your average semi truck w/o trailer) driving through ally ways and dirt roads, supporting the TC and gunner. Say what you want but that is kinda a big responsibility for a young female in Iraq - They also PMCS and prep the trucks each morning for missions, so they are kinda like mechanics too. anyhow, this savage soldier gets blown up, shot at, and keeps on mounting up on missions. I remember we got hit twice in one week by some nasty EFPs, the first of which sent our bravo team TC to Germany with his leg and fingers blown off. you get a few days off from missions after you get hit, so we are back on mission, I now am lead truck gunner, and sure as God's got sandals we got hit again, fortunately we came out okay - this female was on that mission (oh, yea, she was the driver of the truck earlier in the week that got hit and Sgt 'B' got effed up, so she's seen some stuff. so we get another few days off. back in the saddle again, same mission, same route, BS. our teams are all mixed up bc so many people are hurt and off mission - so i'm gunner, she's driving, and another guy is TC. we are lead truck. It's a feeling like someone with a drawn back rubber band held to your arm, you just want it over with bc the suspense is killing you. she's cool as a cucumber. Before we made RP, the LT called the mission off, the city went black and we pulled out, we lost the city. To this day I respect that female soldier - she did her job.

Unfortunately, you'll get a dozen soup sandwich female soldiers for every one "C".

I also want to add - I've seen with my own eye some real females, we're talking some bad ass chicks who do work. and I see the liberal sjw feminist out there and laugh - they have no idea what a strong female looks like. "C" did stuff in Iraq, she did her job, came home, married and started a family, she's doing well, not sure what she does for a living, maybe a CO, not sure - but mad respect for her and those like her. Head down, nose to the grindstone, shoulder to the wheel, no BS. modern feminism is all whine and no work - no sacrifice. it's a shame. America would be better with more strong women.

When it comes to raw physical ability the answer is in Guiness. Look up the world records for physical feats like 100 m dashes, distance runs etc. You will always find them divided between men and women because that's how the competition is.

Now can anyone find any sport where a men's mark has a comparable women's mark and the men's best if worse than the women's? I am doubting anyone can. It shows that for sheer, raw physical power and ability, the male body is better suited.

Now none of that means that the military can set what they deem to be minimum physical competency standards and that a woman can't come along who will meet those standards, but the odds will be that what the military ideally wants in front line soldiers will be difficult for a man to meet, especially when we talk about elite combat services, and even more so for a woman.

Financial Times called James Damore out for using 'freshman philosophy' in regards to his recent letter/email he sent around Google and got sacked for.

I'd love to ram these statistics up their arse. I'd start at the reception desk, the receptionist will be female. I'd then end up in middle management which will be a mix, weighted towards male. Ending up at Director level, most likely all male.
FU Financial Times.

Background info on the Google email thing.

originally posted by: InTheLight
I don't call you sexist, but I think there is not yet a word created for this - maybe right now 'confused'. If a woman takes massive doses of testosterone then she will become a male-like being. Is that not true?

No. It's not true. There will still be significant differences. You can't change genders.

Women should not be front line soldiers period. They can't do what men can physically do period.
Men will lose more morale seeing dead women period. Women will suffer worse tragedies if captured and could possibly increase risk of capture because they can't move as fast with gear.
I'm not sexist and just see this as a matter of physics and math not adding up in favor if female grunts.

a reply to: Bluntone22

That's what I am talking about, gotta find me one too!

I enjoy taking people to the range, I have taken many women too, but I guess the range and military isn't the same

Men are designed for combat , the reason being is that the Human skull differs in males and females , the male skull is alot denser in the frontal region of the face

Why? because males of our species have been fighting for so long that the bone density of the front of the skull became denser and harder over time as a result of us punching and hitting each other in the face with our fists and objects
thats just the way nature sorted that out for us!

Of course like you pointed out there are exceptions

a reply to: VengefulGhost

If marksmanship was the single deciding factor in qualifying to be in the military you'd be correct....

However it's not, never has been, and never will be THE defining qualification!

Hint hint: At what point in basic training do you even START firing weapons?

Hint 2: After they've weeded out all the people who fail for VASTLY MORE IMPORTANT REASONS!

In other words, you genuinely should not have opened your mouth on a subject you're so monumentally disrespectful towards that you can't even be bothered to learn the first f***ing thing about!

And you want other people to RISK DEATH all because you're such a disrespectful cretin that you think you can use the military as your play thing!?

Grow the f*** up

Do actual research

Guess what you'll find if you dig below the feel good whitewashed bs?

Actually I'll just tell you since i know you're far too busy to bother with facts someone hasn't spoonfed you!

You'll find the USS COLE!!!

THAT'S WHAT YOU'LL FIND

Amd if just about losing a billion dollar ship with what was in all reality pretty minimal damage because of hard wired male female interactions under mortal danger is something you're willing to accept....

Frankly you should be tried for treason and HUNG because you're more dangerous to everyone who puts on a uniform than the people from other countries who occasionally attempt to kill them!

a reply to: toysforadults

I think the simplest answer is to act completely indifferent to all demographic markers for a potential recruit.

Have standards that are the bottom-line standards, period. Those would be the standards of what you'd like out your fighting force. No adjusted scores for gender or anything else. This is a professional fighting force, not a conscription.

Then all of you can stop whining about letting people you don't like into the military. If somebody passes, they would be just as effective as the folks next to them, no studies necessary.

a reply to: toysforadults

know ye not that a woman who behaves as a dude is an abomination in God's eyes and vice versa

How well do the women score when being wounded, drugged or interrogated?

You do see where I am going with this?

a reply to: AnonymousCitizen

Simple question: Will including women, transexuals, and homosexuals make our military stronger or weaker? To me the answer is obvious and evidence is overwhelming.

Stronger of coarse.

Yes the evidence of where the military is looking to head means that it matters not if one is male of female, gay or straight.

In the not so distant future it wont matter if your diet compromises of donuts and you live on your couch because you weight 500 pounds, if you can remotely control the robotic devices better then the the next person then it matter not what sex, sexual preference or whatever you are.