I Just Want To Say I Told You So. RE: LGBT

Since everyone wants to be something else. I want to be a unicorn.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
Here's how it's beginning to look...

OP presents some claims and supports claims with evidence - statistics.

To me it shows how easily the youth are influenced by current trends. We have seen it all through the last 100 years...trends and fashions, fads. They see it become popular and they jump on that bandwagon.

Nobody is really presenting any evidence that negates what was put forward in the OP, just feelings and emotions. Why do YOU care? Does it affect YOUR life? It doesn't affect MINE therefore it isn't a problem.

It is...it is a problem. How many trans people, for example...are happy being trans? From what I'm told it isn't fun at all.

Even if they go the full road and have operations, it's apparently still difficult.

But is it hurting me? No, not really?

So what's my problem?

I'll tell you what...my life isn't all about me. I don't just care about me. I don't just care about my happiness.

You might...I don't.

My life isn't about constant pleasure, entertainment, happiness. I don't spend it driving around the mountains, loving the scenery, eating my favourite food and listening to my favourite music.

I look forward to the future, something I will most likely not enjoy very much or even survive to see. I think of future generations, those who will be here after me...it's a long term game. People who think of me and in a short-term capacity are utterly selfish.

So is it fun being trans or not? If not...why are we encouraging it?

I don't think people encourage these lifestyles because they're liberal, or want what's best for others...they are either virtue signallers because they're afraid to be honest - or they're acting on purely selfish motives.

Someone present evidence to dispute the OP.

Someone oppose the OP, please...without sounding completely selfish. Present your argument and why it's best for the future of this planet and species as opposed to how it's good for you and possibly a few of your friends who are probably too far gone to even understand the concept of 'other people'

People who aren't 'you'

Giving people who are Gay or Trans rights is not encouraging them. They already are regardless of whether you or anyone else thinks it's ok or not.

Why the hell should they have to show that their lifestyle isn't bad for the 'future of the planet and species'. No one has came up with a reason that it is.

They already have rights.

Well done for noticing.

The OPs point (and apparently yours) is that this is encouraging people to be gay and that this is somehow bad for the future.

No.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion but it's stupid.

They can have rights without it being thrust in peoples faces at every turn.

TV and schools are awash with this stuff...is that what rights are?

You seem to be confused about what rights actually entail...there's a difference between people being allowed to live, freely...and actively pushing a specific lifestyle.

It's all smoke and mirrors, pathetic.

No integrity.

No honesty...

All lies.

I'm out...enjoy your world. Be happy...it's all about the self.

Ignore me...I'm harmful.

The people pushing a certain lifestyle are those arguing that anything not to their personal liking should be invisible.

Wanting everyone live to your personal standards is being selfish.

Who wants people to be invisible?

Are you accusing me of this?

How so?

Only reason I got involved is because that's exactly how it looks with regards to the OP.

OP is being oppressed for starting an opinion thread.

I just want some honesty.

Don't like double standards.

I don't care if people are genuinely gay or trans...I do care if people are conforming to a lifestyle they think is trendy when it apparently makes them terribly unhappy.

Don't you?

Do you want there to be a load of kids pretending to be trans because it's hip...and then becoming depressed and unhappy?

Or do you simply want to berate the OP for saying something you don't think he/she should be saying?

I'm as happy for people to be trans as I am for people like the OP to be who they are.

What's the difference between the two...can you explain that to me?

Keep this in mind - you dunno who or what I am, I ain't gven anything personal away. All I've done is state my own opinions....so answer.

Do trans people have more rights than the OP?

It's all about rights, isn't it?

The OP stayed his opinion (claiming it as fact) that giving gay people rights has turned people gay and that more gay people us bad for society.

Many people have disagreed. That is how a thread works. He is not being oppressed in anyway.

Oh and given your previous posts on a supposed 'agenda' to promote being gay (gay people on television, the horror!!!) I standby my opinion that you would prefer they were invisible.

That's fine for you to have that opinion...it's stupid - allow me to elaborate.

If I turned a tv on and out of say, 50 channels there was a ballerina on one single channel I'd think nothing of it.

But if there was a ballerina in a tutu presenting a kids tv show...and some documentary about how we should celebrate ballet on bbc2, and there was some other show on another channel about how balerinas have to struggle to train to dance.

And there were tutu's in pub windows, and hanging from flagpoles...and schools were bangng on about ballet and tutus...I'd be like, hang on a minute...there's a clear agenda here pushing ballet.

My ability to recognise this and come to the realisation that there's a ballet agenda being played out doesn't in any way mean I have a problem with ballet. No doubt in your eyes I'd be anti-ballet and want them to be invisible.

I dunno why you see the world in such a way...kinda bizarre. But I don't much care, regardless.

Sometimes...there's just too much ballet.

You just need to be honest...admit it - there's an agenda that is pushing homosexual lifestyles.

If you don't see anyting wrong with these lifestyles...why not just be open about it and admit it?

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: LungFuMoShi

So, it's not okay to try to mitigate gun violence or accidental shootings with children, but it's okay to take away same-sex marriage licenses (which OP wants to do) even though they hurt no one.

Got it.

I never said that was alright at all.

I don't care who you marry.

All I want..and I've been really clear about this from the get go...is for people to be honest.

And admit there's clearly an agenda being played out that is pushing homosexual and trans lifestyles.

That's all.

Just be honest. You can't convince me what I see happening before me is a lie...I'm witnessing it.

Admit it.

Or don;t...and I'll just continue to believe you're a disingenuous person.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
Here's how it's beginning to look...

OP presents some claims and supports claims with evidence - statistics.

To me it shows how easily the youth are influenced by current trends. We have seen it all through the last 100 years...trends and fashions, fads. They see it become popular and they jump on that bandwagon.

Nobody is really presenting any evidence that negates what was put forward in the OP, just feelings and emotions. Why do YOU care? Does it affect YOUR life? It doesn't affect MINE therefore it isn't a problem.

It is...it is a problem. How many trans people, for example...are happy being trans? From what I'm told it isn't fun at all.

Even if they go the full road and have operations, it's apparently still difficult.

But is it hurting me? No, not really?

So what's my problem?

I'll tell you what...my life isn't all about me. I don't just care about me. I don't just care about my happiness.

You might...I don't.

My life isn't about constant pleasure, entertainment, happiness. I don't spend it driving around the mountains, loving the scenery, eating my favourite food and listening to my favourite music.

I look forward to the future, something I will most likely not enjoy very much or even survive to see. I think of future generations, those who will be here after me...it's a long term game. People who think of me and in a short-term capacity are utterly selfish.

So is it fun being trans or not? If not...why are we encouraging it?

I don't think people encourage these lifestyles because they're liberal, or want what's best for others...they are either virtue signallers because they're afraid to be honest - or they're acting on purely selfish motives.

Someone present evidence to dispute the OP.

Someone oppose the OP, please...without sounding completely selfish. Present your argument and why it's best for the future of this planet and species as opposed to how it's good for you and possibly a few of your friends who are probably too far gone to even understand the concept of 'other people'

People who aren't 'you'

Giving people who are Gay or Trans rights is not encouraging them. They already are regardless of whether you or anyone else thinks it's ok or not.

Why the hell should they have to show that their lifestyle isn't bad for the 'future of the planet and species'. No one has came up with a reason that it is.

They already have rights.

Well done for noticing.

The OPs point (and apparently yours) is that this is encouraging people to be gay and that this is somehow bad for the future.

No.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion but it's stupid.

They can have rights without it being thrust in peoples faces at every turn.

TV and schools are awash with this stuff...is that what rights are?

You seem to be confused about what rights actually entail...there's a difference between people being allowed to live, freely...and actively pushing a specific lifestyle.

It's all smoke and mirrors, pathetic.

No integrity.

No honesty...

All lies.

I'm out...enjoy your world. Be happy...it's all about the self.

Ignore me...I'm harmful.

The people pushing a certain lifestyle are those arguing that anything not to their personal liking should be invisible.

Wanting everyone live to your personal standards is being selfish.

Who wants people to be invisible?

Are you accusing me of this?

How so?

Only reason I got involved is because that's exactly how it looks with regards to the OP.

OP is being oppressed for starting an opinion thread.

I just want some honesty.

Don't like double standards.

I don't care if people are genuinely gay or trans...I do care if people are conforming to a lifestyle they think is trendy when it apparently makes them terribly unhappy.

Don't you?

Do you want there to be a load of kids pretending to be trans because it's hip...and then becoming depressed and unhappy?

Or do you simply want to berate the OP for saying something you don't think he/she should be saying?

I'm as happy for people to be trans as I am for people like the OP to be who they are.

What's the difference between the two...can you explain that to me?

Keep this in mind - you dunno who or what I am, I ain't gven anything personal away. All I've done is state my own opinions....so answer.

Do trans people have more rights than the OP?

It's all about rights, isn't it?

The OP stayed his opinion (claiming it as fact) that giving gay people rights has turned people gay and that more gay people us bad for society.

Many people have disagreed. That is how a thread works. He is not being oppressed in anyway.

Oh and given your previous posts on a supposed 'agenda' to promote being gay (gay people on television, the horror!!!) I standby my opinion that you would prefer they were invisible.

That's fine for you to have that opinion...it's stupid - allow me to elaborate.

If I turned a tv on and out of say, 50 channels there was a ballerina on one single channel I'd think nothing of it.

But if there was a ballerina in a tutu presenting a kids tv show...and some documentary about how we should celebrate ballet on bbc2, and there was some other show on another channel about how balerinas have to struggle to train to dance.

And there were tutu's in pub windows, and hanging from flagpoles...and schools were bangng on about ballet and tutus...I'd be like, hang on a minute...there's a clear agenda here pushing ballet.

My ability to recognise this and come to the realisation that there's a ballet agenda being played out doesn't in any way mean I have a problem with ballet. No doubt in your eyes I'd be anti-ballet and want them to be invisible.

I dunno why you see the world in such a way...kinda bizarre. But I don't much care, regardless.

Sometimes...there's just too much ballet.

You just need to be honest...admit it - there's an agenda that is pushing homosexual lifestyles.

If you don't see anyting wrong with these lifestyles...why not just be open about it and admit it?

I think having decades of being oppressed and denied any public recognition that it is entirely possible and a reasonable reaction that there is some over representation.

However that is not to say there is any agenda or that it is all that is shown.

And no there really is nothing wrong with there lifestyle. Will you admit you think there is?

As for gun control...I've never spoken on the subject.

I've never really thought about it...you seem to have attempted to guess my position on that, almost like you think that, if I'm not on your side on this particular issue, ten I must want kids to get shot or something.

Which is a proposterous leap to make. I've never said anything to you about guns...I dunno where that came from but it's a bizarre leap to make.

You are a pretty crazy girl.

a reply to: ScepticScot

But the Right to deny the Rights of someone else isn't a Right to begin with.

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

"Agenda?", that choice of words is probably what makes people get defensive.

It is obvious that the LGBT community has a goal. To be accepted as normal. Using hyperbole to claim that the "agenda" is to make people gay or, as the OP put it, destroy western civilization doesn't make it so.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
Here's how it's beginning to look...

OP presents some claims and supports claims with evidence - statistics.

To me it shows how easily the youth are influenced by current trends. We have seen it all through the last 100 years...trends and fashions, fads. They see it become popular and they jump on that bandwagon.

Nobody is really presenting any evidence that negates what was put forward in the OP, just feelings and emotions. Why do YOU care? Does it affect YOUR life? It doesn't affect MINE therefore it isn't a problem.

It is...it is a problem. How many trans people, for example...are happy being trans? From what I'm told it isn't fun at all.

Even if they go the full road and have operations, it's apparently still difficult.

But is it hurting me? No, not really?

So what's my problem?

I'll tell you what...my life isn't all about me. I don't just care about me. I don't just care about my happiness.

You might...I don't.

My life isn't about constant pleasure, entertainment, happiness. I don't spend it driving around the mountains, loving the scenery, eating my favourite food and listening to my favourite music.

I look forward to the future, something I will most likely not enjoy very much or even survive to see. I think of future generations, those who will be here after me...it's a long term game. People who think of me and in a short-term capacity are utterly selfish.

So is it fun being trans or not? If not...why are we encouraging it?

I don't think people encourage these lifestyles because they're liberal, or want what's best for others...they are either virtue signallers because they're afraid to be honest - or they're acting on purely selfish motives.

Someone present evidence to dispute the OP.

Someone oppose the OP, please...without sounding completely selfish. Present your argument and why it's best for the future of this planet and species as opposed to how it's good for you and possibly a few of your friends who are probably too far gone to even understand the concept of 'other people'

People who aren't 'you'

Giving people who are Gay or Trans rights is not encouraging them. They already are regardless of whether you or anyone else thinks it's ok or not.

Why the hell should they have to show that their lifestyle isn't bad for the 'future of the planet and species'. No one has came up with a reason that it is.

They already have rights.

Well done for noticing.

The OPs point (and apparently yours) is that this is encouraging people to be gay and that this is somehow bad for the future.

No.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion but it's stupid.

They can have rights without it being thrust in peoples faces at every turn.

TV and schools are awash with this stuff...is that what rights are?

You seem to be confused about what rights actually entail...there's a difference between people being allowed to live, freely...and actively pushing a specific lifestyle.

It's all smoke and mirrors, pathetic.

No integrity.

No honesty...

All lies.

I'm out...enjoy your world. Be happy...it's all about the self.

Ignore me...I'm harmful.

The people pushing a certain lifestyle are those arguing that anything not to their personal liking should be invisible.

Wanting everyone live to your personal standards is being selfish.

Who wants people to be invisible?

Are you accusing me of this?

How so?

Only reason I got involved is because that's exactly how it looks with regards to the OP.

OP is being oppressed for starting an opinion thread.

I just want some honesty.

Don't like double standards.

I don't care if people are genuinely gay or trans...I do care if people are conforming to a lifestyle they think is trendy when it apparently makes them terribly unhappy.

Don't you?

Do you want there to be a load of kids pretending to be trans because it's hip...and then becoming depressed and unhappy?

Or do you simply want to berate the OP for saying something you don't think he/she should be saying?

I'm as happy for people to be trans as I am for people like the OP to be who they are.

What's the difference between the two...can you explain that to me?

Keep this in mind - you dunno who or what I am, I ain't gven anything personal away. All I've done is state my own opinions....so answer.

Do trans people have more rights than the OP?

It's all about rights, isn't it?

The OP stayed his opinion (claiming it as fact) that giving gay people rights has turned people gay and that more gay people us bad for society.

Many people have disagreed. That is how a thread works. He is not being oppressed in anyway.

Oh and given your previous posts on a supposed 'agenda' to promote being gay (gay people on television, the horror!!!) I standby my opinion that you would prefer they were invisible.

That's fine for you to have that opinion...it's stupid - allow me to elaborate.

If I turned a tv on and out of say, 50 channels there was a ballerina on one single channel I'd think nothing of it.

But if there was a ballerina in a tutu presenting a kids tv show...and some documentary about how we should celebrate ballet on bbc2, and there was some other show on another channel about how balerinas have to struggle to train to dance.

And there were tutu's in pub windows, and hanging from flagpoles...and schools were bangng on about ballet and tutus...I'd be like, hang on a minute...there's a clear agenda here pushing ballet.

My ability to recognise this and come to the realisation that there's a ballet agenda being played out doesn't in any way mean I have a problem with ballet. No doubt in your eyes I'd be anti-ballet and want them to be invisible.

I dunno why you see the world in such a way...kinda bizarre. But I don't much care, regardless.

Sometimes...there's just too much ballet.

You just need to be honest...admit it - there's an agenda that is pushing homosexual lifestyles.

If you don't see anyting wrong with these lifestyles...why not just be open about it and admit it?

I think having decades of being oppressed and denied any public recognition that it is entirely possible and a reasonable reaction that there is some over representation.

However that is not to say there is any agenda or that it is all that is shown.

And no there really is nothing wrong with there lifestyle. Will you admit you think there is?

Thankyou for being so honest.

To be perfectly honest, no - not really. If same-sex relationships make people happy then who am I to care? For all you know I'm the gayest person you'll ever meet.

I think there's something wrong with some things, like little boys being encouraged to dress like women and going by the name 'lactitia' or whatever it was.

But mostly, I just like arguing with people.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: enlightenedservant

As a Muslim or a Mormon on US conquest, you should be encouraging normalization of LGBT.

That doesn't even make sense. I support LGBT rights because all citizens should have equal rights and legal responsibilities. And on a spiritual level, I think that everyone deserves to be loved and to have someone they love. I'm also not so nosy that I'd care what other consenting adults are doing in their bedrooms or with their personal lives. But thanks for projecting your own limited interpretations again.

As a person who loves freedom and western democracy, you should be very afraid of what the future may look like if you encourage the normalization of LGBT.

LOL How can you equate "loving freedom" with "being very afraid of LGBTs"? If someone really loved freedom, they'd encourage freedoms like the freedom to choose your mate even if they're of the same gender. Or the freedom to change your gender. Or the freedom to use contraceptives. Or the freedom to emigrate to other countries. Etc etc etc. You say "loving freedom" yet are opposed to so many forms of freedom that I have to wonder what "freedoms" you're talking about. Because it sounds like you meant "As a person who loves the freedom to purge the things I disagree with".

Also, how is the "normalization of LGBT" a threat to western democracy? Can LGBT citizens no longer vote? Or are they preventing other citizens from being able to vote? Because that would be a threat to democracy. But if they can still vote, still have to pay taxes, still have to serve on a jury when summoned, etc, then they haven't changed western democracy at all (whatever that even means).

If anything, it sounds like they want to integrate into western democracy by wanting the same rights & responsibilities as heterosexual citizens. So if anything, I support their equal rights movements because I want them to have the same standing as heterosexual citizens. That's not an affront to western democracy, it's a reinforcement of it.

I also notice you didn't answer my questions about the contradictory population argument.

And admit there's clearly an agenda being played out that is pushing homosexual and trans lifestyles.

I think people who want to live that life style, want to live it.

I don't see society in the US pushing that life style as a requirement for everyone.

originally posted by: Dfairlite
a reply to: Kettu

You obviously didn't read the OP. But why should I care? Because I love our society and our foundation. This is a direct threat to both of those things.

Gays coming out of the closet is a threat neither to our society or foundation. All that BS stems from the bible thumpers who thinks everyone should live by their dogmas rules.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: LungFuMoShi

We aren't encouraging being trans. We are saying that being trans is just another aspect of being human. We shouldn't shun it or mistreat people who are trans. We want trans people to live their lives as happily as the rest of us without having to sacrifice what makes them them, which in their case includes being trans.

Because you are selfish.

Lol. I'm not selfish because I don't believe your silly conspiracy theory that you tried to prove by telling me to "look around". Though I will say this, you throwing ad hominems at me weakens your argument.

Fair enough.

It's not harming you. It's not harming me, either.

It's not harming society. There is literally zero proof presented by the OP that more gays or trans in society will be the ruin of it. It is one giant slippery slope fallacy fueled by ignorance.

I still care about future generations. Someone is pushing something...ignore it if you like.

Appeal to the children *eyeroll*

Ask yourself this...is the OP's opinion harming you?

Why do you care what he/she thinks?

As it stands now...OP is on the losing side.

So why do you care?

Because this is ATS and I come to ATS to discuss differing opinions. Shocker I know.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: ScepticScot

But the Right to deny the Rights of someone else isn't a Right to begin with.

There may have been a touch of facetiousness in my post.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
You might be saying that.

The OP is proposing that there is perhaps something that is actively encouraging it.

And he's wrong. As I said it is a slippery slope fallacy.

To be frank, I reached this conclusion long ago, sans the stats.

It's plainly obvious to anyone who has eyes and is honest enough to acknowledge it.

This is how confirmation bias works. When you reach a conclusion without doing any actual research into the matter. You just use isolated news reports, stereotypes, and anecdotes to "prove" your biases.

Look around you.

And pay attention.

Somebody, somewhere...with a lot of influence, wants people to be gay and trans. It's all over the television, it's being actively taught in schools. It's trendy.

I'd appreciate some honesty for once.

Then prove who it is with ACTUAL evidence. Talking about a shadowy "they" just makes you look ignorant and fearful. This "look around" baloney is not how you prove an argument.

You talk of confirmation bias...lol.

Then tell me I reached my conclusion due to news stories, etc.

No - I base my conclusion on the number of clubs I now see with rainbow flags in the windows.

Anecdote

I base my conclusions on all the affeminate young men I now see...far more than I used to.

Anecdote

I base my conclusions on the masses of homosexual characters in film and tv, on the number of same sex couples I see all over the place.

Anecdote

On the stuff my neice told me about what they learn in school.

Anecdote

Yep looks like confirmation bias to me. You base your opinions on anecdotes and don't do any hard research into studies or scientific opinions.

Seems to me the only one who confirmed their bias here was you, assuming you knew what my sources were and how I arrived at my conclusion.

Some honesty, please.

Selfish people

Nah. It was just an easy guess to make going by your post content and your vagueness. It's par the course with silly and logically unsound conspiracy theories. Now if you had a scientific study to source or something of that nature then I'd have been wrong, but nope. You just admitted to me that you base your opinions off of evidence you have selected to pay attention to and ignore stuff you disagree with. Which is confirmation bias.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
Here's how it's beginning to look...

OP presents some claims and supports claims with evidence - statistics.

To me it shows how easily the youth are influenced by current trends. We have seen it all through the last 100 years...trends and fashions, fads. They see it become popular and they jump on that bandwagon.

Nobody is really presenting any evidence that negates what was put forward in the OP, just feelings and emotions. Why do YOU care? Does it affect YOUR life? It doesn't affect MINE therefore it isn't a problem.

It is...it is a problem. How many trans people, for example...are happy being trans? From what I'm told it isn't fun at all.

Even if they go the full road and have operations, it's apparently still difficult.

But is it hurting me? No, not really?

So what's my problem?

I'll tell you what...my life isn't all about me. I don't just care about me. I don't just care about my happiness.

You might...I don't.

My life isn't about constant pleasure, entertainment, happiness. I don't spend it driving around the mountains, loving the scenery, eating my favourite food and listening to my favourite music.

I look forward to the future, something I will most likely not enjoy very much or even survive to see. I think of future generations, those who will be here after me...it's a long term game. People who think of me and in a short-term capacity are utterly selfish.

So is it fun being trans or not? If not...why are we encouraging it?

I don't think people encourage these lifestyles because they're liberal, or want what's best for others...they are either virtue signallers because they're afraid to be honest - or they're acting on purely selfish motives.

Someone present evidence to dispute the OP.

Someone oppose the OP, please...without sounding completely selfish. Present your argument and why it's best for the future of this planet and species as opposed to how it's good for you and possibly a few of your friends who are probably too far gone to even understand the concept of 'other people'

People who aren't 'you'

Giving people who are Gay or Trans rights is not encouraging them. They already are regardless of whether you or anyone else thinks it's ok or not.

Why the hell should they have to show that their lifestyle isn't bad for the 'future of the planet and species'. No one has came up with a reason that it is.

They already have rights.

Well done for noticing.

The OPs point (and apparently yours) is that this is encouraging people to be gay and that this is somehow bad for the future.

No.

Not sure how you came to that conclusion but it's stupid.

They can have rights without it being thrust in peoples faces at every turn.

TV and schools are awash with this stuff...is that what rights are?

You seem to be confused about what rights actually entail...there's a difference between people being allowed to live, freely...and actively pushing a specific lifestyle.

It's all smoke and mirrors, pathetic.

No integrity.

No honesty...

All lies.

I'm out...enjoy your world. Be happy...it's all about the self.

Ignore me...I'm harmful.

The people pushing a certain lifestyle are those arguing that anything not to their personal liking should be invisible.

Wanting everyone live to your personal standards is being selfish.

Who wants people to be invisible?

Are you accusing me of this?

How so?

Only reason I got involved is because that's exactly how it looks with regards to the OP.

OP is being oppressed for starting an opinion thread.

I just want some honesty.

Don't like double standards.

I don't care if people are genuinely gay or trans...I do care if people are conforming to a lifestyle they think is trendy when it apparently makes them terribly unhappy.

Don't you?

Do you want there to be a load of kids pretending to be trans because it's hip...and then becoming depressed and unhappy?

Or do you simply want to berate the OP for saying something you don't think he/she should be saying?

I'm as happy for people to be trans as I am for people like the OP to be who they are.

What's the difference between the two...can you explain that to me?

Keep this in mind - you dunno who or what I am, I ain't gven anything personal away. All I've done is state my own opinions....so answer.

Do trans people have more rights than the OP?

It's all about rights, isn't it?

The OP stayed his opinion (claiming it as fact) that giving gay people rights has turned people gay and that more gay people us bad for society.

Many people have disagreed. That is how a thread works. He is not being oppressed in anyway.

Oh and given your previous posts on a supposed 'agenda' to promote being gay (gay people on television, the horror!!!) I standby my opinion that you would prefer they were invisible.

That's fine for you to have that opinion...it's stupid - allow me to elaborate.

If I turned a tv on and out of say, 50 channels there was a ballerina on one single channel I'd think nothing of it.

But if there was a ballerina in a tutu presenting a kids tv show...and some documentary about how we should celebrate ballet on bbc2, and there was some other show on another channel about how balerinas have to struggle to train to dance.

And there were tutu's in pub windows, and hanging from flagpoles...and schools were bangng on about ballet and tutus...I'd be like, hang on a minute...there's a clear agenda here pushing ballet.

My ability to recognise this and come to the realisation that there's a ballet agenda being played out doesn't in any way mean I have a problem with ballet. No doubt in your eyes I'd be anti-ballet and want them to be invisible.

I dunno why you see the world in such a way...kinda bizarre. But I don't much care, regardless.

Sometimes...there's just too much ballet.

You just need to be honest...admit it - there's an agenda that is pushing homosexual lifestyles.

If you don't see anyting wrong with these lifestyles...why not just be open about it and admit it?

I think having decades of being oppressed and denied any public recognition that it is entirely possible and a reasonable reaction that there is some over representation.

However that is not to say there is any agenda or that it is all that is shown.

And no there really is nothing wrong with there lifestyle. Will you admit you think there is?

But mostly, I just like arguing with people.

Finally something we can agree on.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I would hope so. It's hard to tell when it's in text form so it's easy to miss it sometimes. I miss it quite a lot because around here people say stuff that you'd normally understand as not being literal and yet they actually are being literal.

So if I didn't pick up what you were laying down that's why.

It's just hard to tell sometimes around here figuring out the difference between what someone says and what they mean.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: LungFuMoShi

We aren't encouraging being trans. We are saying that being trans is just another aspect of being human. We shouldn't shun it or mistreat people who are trans. We want trans people to live their lives as happily as the rest of us without having to sacrifice what makes them them, which in their case includes being trans.

Because you are selfish.

Lol. I'm not selfish because I don't believe your silly conspiracy theory that you tried to prove by telling me to "look around". Though I will say this, you throwing ad hominems at me weakens your argument.

Fair enough.

It's not harming you. It's not harming me, either.

It's not harming society. There is literally zero proof presented by the OP that more gays or trans in society will be the ruin of it. It is one giant slippery slope fallacy fueled by ignorance.

I still care about future generations. Someone is pushing something...ignore it if you like.

Appeal to the children *eyeroll*

Ask yourself this...is the OP's opinion harming you?

Why do you care what he/she thinks?

As it stands now...OP is on the losing side.

So why do you care?

Because this is ATS and I come to ATS to discuss differing opinions. Shocker I know.

I don't know if it is harming society, nor do you.

We don't know if it isn't, either.

As far as I know...it's relatively new. Not homosexuality or trans, that's not new - but it's prevalence is, and the media that propagates it, in historical terms...also is.

Unless you can show me a period of history that mirrors what we're seeing now...a wide and far reaching social media propagating this...it being as common as it is.

So I'll give you that...there is no proof that it's harming society...and no proof that it isn't.

Is there? So we should just take your word for it?

If that person says it then it must be true!

We won't know if it's doing any harm probably until it's too late.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see...I hope you're right. But, unfortunately...I'm not as certain as you. You must be privvy to evidence and facts that nobody else is. Aren't you the enlightened one?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
You might be saying that.

The OP is proposing that there is perhaps something that is actively encouraging it.

And he's wrong. As I said it is a slippery slope fallacy.

To be frank, I reached this conclusion long ago, sans the stats.

It's plainly obvious to anyone who has eyes and is honest enough to acknowledge it.

This is how confirmation bias works. When you reach a conclusion without doing any actual research into the matter. You just use isolated news reports, stereotypes, and anecdotes to "prove" your biases.

Look around you.

And pay attention.

Somebody, somewhere...with a lot of influence, wants people to be gay and trans. It's all over the television, it's being actively taught in schools. It's trendy.

I'd appreciate some honesty for once.

Then prove who it is with ACTUAL evidence. Talking about a shadowy "they" just makes you look ignorant and fearful. This "look around" baloney is not how you prove an argument.

You talk of confirmation bias...lol.

Then tell me I reached my conclusion due to news stories, etc.

No - I base my conclusion on the number of clubs I now see with rainbow flags in the windows.

Anecdote

I base my conclusions on all the affeminate young men I now see...far more than I used to.

Anecdote

I base my conclusions on the masses of homosexual characters in film and tv, on the number of same sex couples I see all over the place.

Anecdote

On the stuff my neice told me about what they learn in school.

Anecdote

Yep looks like confirmation bias to me. You base your opinions on anecdotes and don't do any hard research into studies or scientific opinions.

Seems to me the only one who confirmed their bias here was you, assuming you knew what my sources were and how I arrived at my conclusion.

Some honesty, please.

Selfish people

Nah. It was just an easy guess to make going by your post content and your vagueness. It's par the course with silly and logically unsound conspiracy theories. Now if you had a scientific study to source or something of that nature then I'd have been wrong, but nope. You just admitted to me that you base your opinions off of evidence you have selected to pay attention to and ignore stuff you disagree with. Which is confirmation bias.

It's not anecdotal..observation is not anecdotal.

Me relating it to you, then from your perspective it's anecdotal.

But from my perspective it's observation...are you claiming I'm seeing things that are not there?

Perhaps I'm imagining it.

When Edison saw a filament glow as current passed through it...was that anecdotal?

Presumably everything is anecdotal until you confirm it, personally?

The best evidence in the world...from my own personal persoective, is that which I witness, personally.

Perhaps you don't trust yourself...we're not all as insecure as you.

Your entire life experience is, based on your own skewed perceptions...anecdotal.

Go you!

I don't care what you think as much as you seem to care what I think.

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

Pushing gay and trans lifestyles? No. Promoting that gay and trans people aren't evil monsters and freaks, but are just people like the rest of us - and that we should treat them how we would like to be treated ourselves? Yes.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
I don't know if it is harming society, nor do you.

We don't know if it isn't, either.

Just because we don't know the answer doesn't give you reason to believe it is the case. You have to actually prove it with evidence. Otherwise Occam's Razor says your idea is a bunch of BS.

As far as I know...it's relatively new. Not homosexuality or trans, that's not new - but it's prevalence is, and the media that propagates it, in historical terms...also is.

You should look up Ancient Greece. Oh and modern Thailand.

Unless you can show me a period of history that mirrors what we're seeing now...a wide and far reaching social media propagating this...it being as common as it is.

Again... Ancient Greece....

So I'll give you that...there is no proof that it's harming society...and no proof that it isn't.

Is there? So we should just take your word for it?

No, but it isn't on me to prove a negative. That isn't how you prove things. If you want to say it is true or believe it then you need to provide evidence of it being true. Otherwise you are just talking out your ass.

If that person says it then it must be true!

We won't know if it's doing any harm probably until it's too late.

Well if you think that is the case then put on a lab coat, devise a study/experiment, and test your hypothesis. It's called Science. It's how we identify and understand the world and society.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see...I hope you're right. But, unfortunately...I'm not as certain as you. You must be privvy to evidence and facts that nobody else is. Aren't you the enlightened one?

Nope. Just Occam's Razor. The idea with the least amount of assumptions is likely the truth.