I Just Want To Say I Told You So. RE: LGBT

originally posted by: testingtesting
Seeing it is thought 10% of people are gay all you are showing is more people are coming out due to the acceptance of society not all gay folk come out hence still less then 10%.
Oh did you decide you was straight?

Did you not read the part where op addresses this? Where he says that the increases are in millennials? If it is just more people becoming comfortable with coming out, why aren't the increases across the board in all generations?

a reply to: matafuchs

A camp for 4 year olds is infringing on your rights? Wow. You need to get out some more.

Here's how it's beginning to look...

OP presents some claims and supports claims with evidence - statistics.

To me it shows how easily the youth are influenced by current trends. We have seen it all through the last 100 years...trends and fashions, fads. They see it become popular and they jump on that bandwagon.

Nobody is really presenting any evidence that negates what was put forward in the OP, just feelings and emotions. Why do YOU care? Does it affect YOUR life? It doesn't affect MINE therefore it isn't a problem.

It is...it is a problem. How many trans people, for example...are happy being trans? From what I'm told it isn't fun at all.

Even if they go the full road and have operations, it's apparently still difficult.

But is it hurting me? No, not really?

So what's my problem?

I'll tell you what...my life isn't all about me. I don't just care about me. I don't just care about my happiness.

You might...I don't.

My life isn't about constant pleasure, entertainment, happiness. I don't spend it driving around the mountains, loving the scenery, eating my favourite food and listening to my favourite music.

I look forward to the future, something I will most likely not enjoy very much or even survive to see. I think of future generations, those who will be here after me...it's a long term game. People who think of me and in a short-term capacity are utterly selfish.

So is it fun being trans or not? If not...why are we encouraging it?

I don't think people encourage these lifestyles because they're liberal, or want what's best for others...they are either virtue signallers because they're afraid to be honest - or they're acting on purely selfish motives.

Someone present evidence to dispute the OP.

Someone oppose the OP, please...without sounding completely selfish. Present your argument and why it's best for the future of this planet and species as opposed to how it's good for you and possibly a few of your friends who are probably too far gone to even understand the concept of 'other people'

People who aren't 'you'

I've YET to meet someone who claims "Yeah, I decided to be gay now".

originally posted by: playtime

originally posted by: testingtesting
Seeing it is thought 10% of people are gay all you are showing is more people are coming out due to the acceptance of society not all gay folk come out hence still less then 10%.
Oh did you decide you was straight?

Did you not read the part where op addresses this? Where he says that the increases are in millennials? If it is just more people becoming comfortable with coming out, why aren't the increases across the board in all generations?

There are a multitude of reasons.

Younger people generally adapt to social changes quicker. Older people are more likely to have religious or family affiliations that make identifying as gay more complex.

What doesn't make sense is the OPs idea that giving gay people rights turns people gay.

originally posted by: DanteGaland
I've YET to meet someone who claims "Yeah, I decided to be gay now".

Why would they?

Think of this...in school I liked a band called oasis.

Nobody else did, they mocked me and laughed...listen to that crap.

A few months later everyone liked oasis...naturally, nobody was like - "Oh, I just started to like oasis 5 minutes ago when everyone else did and I realised they were so popular!"

No...they acted like they always did.

And that's just some crappy band...you expect people to jump on the gay/trans bandwagon and be like...yeah, just 'cause everyone else was doing it!

Get real...be honest. Stop fooling yourself.

Please.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: AboveBoard

For the record, personally, I have great difficulty understanding what trans folks go through.

To me personally, it is as strange to feel like you are another gender entirely as it is for some that I'm attracted to other men.

But the fact that I don't subjectively understand something doesn't mean that I call them sick or perverse.

Definitely. I'm with you on that.

I don't need to call anyone sick or perverse in the lgbtq community.

a reply to: SR1TX

No you wish you did all those things. I don't buy it for a second with your crap attitude, you're talking out your blowhole. You don't get anywhere like that.

a reply to: LungFuMoShi

We aren't encouraging being trans. We are saying that being trans is just another aspect of being human. We shouldn't shun it or mistreat people who are trans. We want trans people to live their lives as happily as the rest of us without having to sacrifice what makes them them, which in their case includes being trans.

Someone present evidence to dispute the OP.

Why? Our problem isn't with the OP's statistics. Our problem is with the ignorant conclusion he reached USING those statistics. None of us care if the gay or trans population is increasing and we don't think that it doing so will destroy the country. That is a slippery slope fallacy, and a terrible one at that.

a reply to: Dfairlite

OP is right on!! I couldn't agree more....I didn't take the time to read though all 12 pages as I am late to the game. However I'm sure it is full of "feelings" and "people are born gay" or "its not a choice" propaganda of the Gay community.

I bet however all those emotional people who have commented so far have yet to disprove the statistics you cited.....

Feelings....nothing more than feeelingss.....

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
Here's how it's beginning to look...

OP presents some claims and supports claims with evidence - statistics.

To me it shows how easily the youth are influenced by current trends. We have seen it all through the last 100 years...trends and fashions, fads. They see it become popular and they jump on that bandwagon.

Nobody is really presenting any evidence that negates what was put forward in the OP, just feelings and emotions. Why do YOU care? Does it affect YOUR life? It doesn't affect MINE therefore it isn't a problem.

It is...it is a problem. How many trans people, for example...are happy being trans? From what I'm told it isn't fun at all.

Even if they go the full road and have operations, it's apparently still difficult.

But is it hurting me? No, not really?

So what's my problem?

I'll tell you what...my life isn't all about me. I don't just care about me. I don't just care about my happiness.

You might...I don't.

My life isn't about constant pleasure, entertainment, happiness. I don't spend it driving around the mountains, loving the scenery, eating my favourite food and listening to my favourite music.

I look forward to the future, something I will most likely not enjoy very much or even survive to see. I think of future generations, those who will be here after me...it's a long term game. People who think of me and in a short-term capacity are utterly selfish.

So is it fun being trans or not? If not...why are we encouraging it?

I don't think people encourage these lifestyles because they're liberal, or want what's best for others...they are either virtue signallers because they're afraid to be honest - or they're acting on purely selfish motives.

Someone present evidence to dispute the OP.

Someone oppose the OP, please...without sounding completely selfish. Present your argument and why it's best for the future of this planet and species as opposed to how it's good for you and possibly a few of your friends who are probably too far gone to even understand the concept of 'other people'

People who aren't 'you'

Giving people who are Gay or Trans rights is not encouraging them. They already are regardless of whether you or anyone else thinks it's ok or not.

Why the hell should they have to show that their lifestyle isn't bad for the 'future of the planet and species'. No one has came up with a reason that it is.

a reply to: GuidedKill

Did you choose to be straight?.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: LungFuMoShi

We aren't encouraging being trans. We are saying that being trans is just another aspect of being human. We shouldn't shun it or mistreat people who are trans. We want trans people to live their lives as happily as the rest of us without having to sacrifice what makes them them, which in their case includes being trans.

You might be saying that.

The OP is proposing that there is perhaps something that is actively encouraging it.

To be frank, I reached this conclusion long ago, sans the stats.

It's plainly obvious to anyone who has eyes and is honest enough to acknowledge it.

Look around you.

And pay attention.

Somebody, somewhere...with a lot of influence, wants people to be gay and trans. It's all over the television, it's being actively taught in schools. It's trendy.

I'd appreciate some honesty for once.

originally posted by: testingtesting
a reply to: GuidedKill

Did you choose to be straight?.

YUP!! and I love it!!

How about you?

LOL.

Let's examine OP's claim:

originally posted by: Dfairlite
*snip*

So here it is:
Since 2012 people identifying as LGBT has increased from 3.5% to 4.1% an increase of 17% (definitely not statistical noise). Giving even more credence to my assertion is that ALL of the gain came among millennials. No other generation saw an increase in LGBT identification.

*snip*

Data from Gallup. link

1. The evidence for OP's claim is based on the results of one poll. That proves nothing significant about a population.

2. Percentages are "fraction out of one-hundred," therefore, a change from 4.1% to 3.5% is not 17% but is a change of 0.6% arguably statistically insignificant.

3. OP then generalizes these two facts to match their own beliefs. There is nothing logical or scientific about that.

a reply to: playtime

Because the stigma of being gay still resonates with the older generations.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: LungFuMoShi

We aren't encouraging being trans. We are saying that being trans is just another aspect of being human. We shouldn't shun it or mistreat people who are trans. We want trans people to live their lives as happily as the rest of us without having to sacrifice what makes them them, which in their case includes being trans.

Because you are selfish.

Fair enough.

It's not harming you. It's not harming me, either.

I still care about future generations. Someone is pushing something...ignore it if you like.

Ask yourself this...is the OP's opinion harming you?

Why do you care what he/she thinks?

As it stands now...OP is on the losing side.

So why do you care?

a reply to: AboveBoard

From having some personal discussions with a few trans people, I have been told that from a very young age they not only identified with the surface stereotypes of the opposite gender, but there was a true disgust with their bodies. So it goes much deeper than just being a tomboy or a boy playing with dolls.

I understand that it is possible for a kid and/or their parents to get confused - are they gay, trans, or just going through a phase? This is where a good therapist who has experience in this subject is critical. A therapist can help the child work through their feelings and help better clarify what those feelings mean. Many times, a kid who thinks they may be trans is really just gay, and therapy can help them work that out.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
Here's how it's beginning to look...

OP presents some claims and supports claims with evidence - statistics.

To me it shows how easily the youth are influenced by current trends. We have seen it all through the last 100 years...trends and fashions, fads. They see it become popular and they jump on that bandwagon.

Nobody is really presenting any evidence that negates what was put forward in the OP, just feelings and emotions. Why do YOU care? Does it affect YOUR life? It doesn't affect MINE therefore it isn't a problem.

It is...it is a problem. How many trans people, for example...are happy being trans? From what I'm told it isn't fun at all.

Even if they go the full road and have operations, it's apparently still difficult.

But is it hurting me? No, not really?

So what's my problem?

I'll tell you what...my life isn't all about me. I don't just care about me. I don't just care about my happiness.

You might...I don't.

My life isn't about constant pleasure, entertainment, happiness. I don't spend it driving around the mountains, loving the scenery, eating my favourite food and listening to my favourite music.

I look forward to the future, something I will most likely not enjoy very much or even survive to see. I think of future generations, those who will be here after me...it's a long term game. People who think of me and in a short-term capacity are utterly selfish.

So is it fun being trans or not? If not...why are we encouraging it?

I don't think people encourage these lifestyles because they're liberal, or want what's best for others...they are either virtue signallers because they're afraid to be honest - or they're acting on purely selfish motives.

Someone present evidence to dispute the OP.

Someone oppose the OP, please...without sounding completely selfish. Present your argument and why it's best for the future of this planet and species as opposed to how it's good for you and possibly a few of your friends who are probably too far gone to even understand the concept of 'other people'

People who aren't 'you'

Giving people who are Gay or Trans rights is not encouraging them. They already are regardless of whether you or anyone else thinks it's ok or not.

Why the hell should they have to show that their lifestyle isn't bad for the 'future of the planet and species'. No one has came up with a reason that it is.

They already have rights.

originally posted by: LungFuMoShi
You might be saying that.

The OP is proposing that there is perhaps something that is actively encouraging it.

And he's wrong. As I said it is a slippery slope fallacy.

To be frank, I reached this conclusion long ago, sans the stats.

It's plainly obvious to anyone who has eyes and is honest enough to acknowledge it.

This is how confirmation bias works. When you reach a conclusion without doing any actual research into the matter. You just use isolated news reports, stereotypes, and anecdotes to "prove" your biases.

Look around you.

And pay attention.

Somebody, somewhere...with a lot of influence, wants people to be gay and trans. It's all over the television, it's being actively taught in schools. It's trendy.

I'd appreciate some honesty for once.

Then prove who it is with ACTUAL evidence. Talking about a shadowy "they" just makes you look ignorant and fearful. This "look around" baloney is not how you prove an argument.