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Help me understand the Russian Collusion angle.

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posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 10:57 AM
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a reply to: underpass61

Just shows exactly how Comey ran the Bureau

He took over from Mueller

Lots to keep hidden




posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: underpass61

I didn't give my opinion. I only tried to answer your question.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 10:59 AM
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a reply to: Kali74

LOL, yes and more probably not. See also "funds".



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:00 AM
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Joke of the day, A Trumptard asking for help to understand the Russian angle



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: network dude

We'll see. There's too much smoke for me to not believe there's a fire but I've always believed that Trump has broken many laws all along his path to billionaire.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:03 AM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: redtic

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

so all of your hate and anger at the moment is based on hope and conspiracy theory?


For me personally, a lot of my hate (that's a pretty strong word, but sure, we'll go with it) and anger is because I think Trump is a horrible leader and a terrible representative of the US to the world. If, on top of that, he and/or his team colluded with Russians to gain his power, then that's like gasoline on a fire.


If he and the Kremlin planned all the amazing political savvy that Trump obviously showed in this election, (I can't believe I was able to type that through the laughter) then prove it and impeach/arrest him. That would be a crime against America.


What you see as Trump having "amazing political savvy" (I can't believe I was able to type that through the laughter), I see as ignorance, naiveté, and just plain dumbness. Tomayto, Tomahto...



But if he just happened to be a loud mouth, arrogant ass, with ass loads of money, who decided to run for President, and with his genius plan of saying stupid things to get the media to give him free coverage and make his name more memorable than Hillary, and all the evidence against him with regard to Russian collusion is circumstantial and likely the normal chain of business in the high finance world, then no crime exists and the joke is on all those who wrote him off as a joke.


I think you were on to something with that first sentence. And I cringe every time I hear "genius" and "Trump" in the same sentence. There's no evidence of genius of any form in that man. Anyhow, we'll see who the joke is on when investigations are over.



The most damning stuff to arise out of this, is the corruptness (with facts to back it all up) of the DNC, which did turn the election to Trumps favor (IMHO). It's looking like all that came from within the DNC, and not a Russian hack. If that is the case, there is no case to be had. Would you agree?


Sure, if that were the case, I'd agree. But that's not the case.



And on that note, as an American, I would much rather have a better option than DJT for president, but as an American I wasn't offered a better choice, so I sit here and hope for the best of our president and continually get angry at the way the left tries to disrupt the process of government with lies and deceit as they were proven to use prior to election day, and still supported by "Americans" on the left. (those whom I affectionately call Tr-Hators)


I do agree with that first part - we were not offered much of a choice. Hillary was a horrible candidate, but would have made a far better president than DJT. And, oh, there were plenty of Obam-hators (or whatever you'd like to affectionately call them) - but in the case of trump, there is plenty of reason to justifiably be wary of the man and his administration, at the very least because he just really has no clue what he's doing, and at worst because he illegally obtained the presidency. I look forward to the results of the investigations to tell us either way.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: theantediluvian




Regarding the DTJ meeting, it doesn't seem any laws were broken and I'm not sure that any laws would have been broken even if they had gotten the goods they were seeking.

I agree, with the evidence in public view today.
I was surprised to see you post that here.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: redtic

Illegally obtained the presidency. being a "trumptard" as one asshat so eloquently mentioned, I don't understand how that took place. I watched the elections live. I didn't see any Russians with H&K's pointed at anyone.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:10 AM
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a reply to: Kali74

I already know what the FBI did by relying on Crowdstrike. Your opinion of their decision was what I was asking for.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:11 AM
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a reply to: network dude

It happened before....did it happen again?



South Korea’s spy agency has admitted it conducted an illicit campaign to influence the country’s 2012 presidential election, mobilising teams of experts in psychological warfare to ensure that the conservative candidate, Park Geun-hye, beat her liberal rival.

An internal investigation by the powerful National Intelligence Service also revealed attempts by its former director and other senior officials to influence voters during parliamentary elections under Park’s predecessor, the hardline rightwinger Lee Myung-bak.

Advertisement Claims, now confirmed by the service, that it was behind an aggressive online campaign to sway voters is certain to add to public anger towards South Korea’s political system. Park, who narrowly beat the current president, Moon Jae-in, to become the country’s first female president in the 2012 vote, is standing trial on corruption and abuse of power charges, and faces life in prison.

Media coverage of the scandal that led to her impeachment late last year revealed widespread collusion at the highest level of South Korean politics and business, and propelled Moon, a left-leaning liberal, to a landslide victory in May.


www.theguardian.com...



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: iWontGiveUP

this is my shocked face. no, really.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:16 AM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: network dude

We'll see. There's too much smoke for me to not believe there's a fire but I've always believed that Trump has broken many laws all along his path to billionaire.


I won't argue with that, but the question has to do with the "collusion" charge in the election process.
Oh, and now I think you have to have had "intent" to be held accountable for any crime.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:30 AM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: redtic

Illegally obtained the presidency. being a "trumptard" as one asshat so eloquently mentioned, I don't understand how that took place. I watched the elections live. I didn't see any Russians with H&K's pointed at anyone.


Well, I did say "worst case". So *if* (and I fully understand that's a big if), for instance, he coordinated with Russians to spread fake news in key swing states with the purpose of swaying the election in his favor, then, yes, the worst case is that he illegally obtained the presidency.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: introvert




This is where the entire issue gets very tricky, as we stand on unprecedented ground.

No not really. First please provide the proof that anything was given to the trump campaign at that meeting. I have seen none.

11 CFR 110.20



§110.20 Prohibition on contributions, donations, expenditures, independent expenditures, and disbursements by foreign nationals (52 U.S.C. 30121, 36 U.S.C. 510). (a) Definitions. For purposes of this section, the following definitions apply:

CFR sections have specific definitions that apply to that specific section.
from 110.20


(1) Disbursement has the same meaning as in 11 CFR 300.2(d).

from 300.2(d)


(d) Disbursement. Disbursement means any purchase or payment made by: (1) A political committee; or (2) Any other person, including an organization that is not a political committee, that is subject to the Act.


Please show me the definition of "thing of value".
It is not there.

You are just blowing smoke.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:32 AM
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originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Dudemo5

Do you think of fusion GPS is russian, and the dnc and some republicans paid them to spread dirt on trump, that this is a crime?


How is Fusion GPS "Russian?" Because they were contracted to assist Veselnitskaya's anti-Magnitsky Act lobbying efforts? I'd say it makes them sleazy and mercenary-like but Russian?

I do find it concerning that they were working with Veselnitskaya's team and that Veselnitskaya is almost certainly a Kremlin agent. Regarding the dossier, I think there are serious questions about whether or not the Kremlin knew it was being compiled and intentionally fed Steele information they wanted to be in the dossier.

Was Russia hedging its bet? Playing both sides? I don't know.

As for the legality of it. If Fusion GPS and Ron Dellums weren't registered as foreign agents while assisting Veselnitskaya, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Regarding the DTJ meeting, it doesn't seem any laws were broken and I'm not sure that any laws would have been broken even if they had gotten the goods they were seeking.


I agree with you on the Trump jr. meeting. Talking with foreign agents, even ones not on good terms with the US, and having them give you dirt on your opponent is not a good look, but its not illegal.

My point is that when it comes to Trump, many people are willing to shout guilty merely based on the fact that Trump people talked with Russians,

Yet we actually have other Republicans and the DNC paying Fusion GPS, that actively worked on behalf of Russia, to not only dig up dirt on Trump, but much of which may flat out be lies (hookers peeing, etc.).

And keep in mind, we have as much proof Fusion GPS is working on behalf of Russians as we do for Vesilinetkya; that is they both worked for Russia in the past.

So why are the people outraged over Trump Jr.s meeting even more outraged about Republicans and Democrats PAYING (which there is no proof of Trump jr. paying the russian lawyer) a company possibly working with Russians?


The Steele dossier is further removed than that. There's no evidence that's been brought to the public about involvement with the Clinton campaign. Nor has there been anything that indicates that Fusion GPS was coordinating with the Russians or using Steele to receive anything from the Russian government. So if DTJ wasn't violating any laws, it seems even more unlikely that whatever the identity of Fusion GPS's clients, that those people would be guilty of any crimes.


Perhaps not direct involvement of the Clinton campaign, but we know DNC members (and some RNC) paid Fusion for this info.

We don't have any info saying Fusion GPS was working directly with Putin, but again, that doesn't stop people from calling for Trumps head.

Do we have proof Vesil whats her name was working with Putin? And so on.

And keep in mind, there is an independent investigation into Trumps team and Russian involvement, and that will no doubt look into rather or not Vesilnitskaya was a Kremlin agent or not. Surely this Fusion GS situation is enough to warrant the exact same treatment into everyone (RNC or DNC) that paid them for this dirt on Trump. Why does there seem to be a double standard?



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:35 AM
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Surely this Fusion GS situation is enough to warrant the exact same treatment into everyone (RNC or DNC) that paid them for this dirt on Trump. Why does there seem to be a double standard?


The double standard you speak of only makes this worse when the truth comes out.
Many feel the same kind of double standard has been in place in dc for many years.
That is what got trump elected in the first place.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:37 AM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: network dude

Fusion GPS is an American firm originally hired by Never Trumpers in the GOP. When Trump won the nomination, Fusion was dismissed and took their research to the DNC. In June 2016 Russia hacked the DNC and Wikileaks began publishing emails. That is when Fusion hired Christopher Steele, to investigate possible ties between Trump and Russia. The election happened soon after and when Trump won the research job was over but Steele decided to continue on his own and turned his research over to the FBI and the media.

So the difference is... the Clinton campaign never hired Fusion or Steele, whereas members of the Trump campaign willfully met with a Russian citizen claiming to have dirt on Hillary.


Problem is Fusion GPS was working with the Russians and the Magentsky Act before the RNC and DNC hired them.

This means that they knowingly paid an organization that they knew was also being paid by the Russian government to dig up dirt about Trump and Russians.

Trump Jr. knowingly met with a russian woman who he did not no (nor do we at this point) if she was a kremlin agent or not to hear dirt of Hillary.

Its the exact same situation, except the DNC and some of the RNC PAID a known russian employee for dirt on Trump, and Trump jr. did not pay the lawyer.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: underpass61

I don't really have an opinion on that. It seems the FBI has used them before.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:40 AM
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I wish there were this much investigation into election tampering committed by the CIA, MSM, and Israel.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: shooterbrody



No not really. First please provide the proof that anything was given to the trump campaign at that meeting. I have seen none.


Did you happen to read section b?


(b)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.


It appears only a promise need to be made for it to be in violation and disbursements are not mention in that section.



Please show me the definition of "thing of value". It is not there.



Correct, it's not there. Here is a legal definition:


Anything of value refers to any goods that have a certain utility to the recipient that is real and that is ordinarily not given away free but is purchased.


definitions.uslegal.com...

Opposition research is not given away freely. It is purchased.



You are just blowing smoke.


I'm simply discussing the issue. The OP asked what laws may have been violated and I responded with what I have read legal scholars talking about on this issue. As I said, I don't know how much weight that holds or how it would play-out in the courts. This is unprecedented.

I know what I posted may not confirm your biases and it may hurt your feelings, but this is a potential issue that may come up in the future.



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