Trump holding meetings with religious leaders

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: imwilliam

religious people make up 80% of the population???
really???
you really believe this country would be in the state it is in if 80% of the population were bible believing christians??
do you live in a cave or what???

Well, that's problem #1. Most Christians do not live by church teachings or the bible, and then when they fail to live up to it they excuse it by saying it's an ideal and they're flawed. Rather than hold themselves to a higher standard they look in the other direction.

I know, right!?

They are not like muslims who living it up to the letter of their koran.

Obama had the muslim brotherhood covered for 8 yrs. What sect are they again? The good one or the one that got kicked out of egypt?

I never can keep that straight.

Clock boy. lol.

It's easy to live up to something when there is nothing to live up to.

"no one is so thoroughly superstitious as the godless man"

originally posted by: imwilliam
a reply to: Deaf Alien

Actually we can. It's called the First Amendment.

The first amendment doesn't prevent religious people taking into account their religious beliefs when establishing a political position or making a political decision.

It prevents them from passing laws based on the Bible. If the far right evangelical Christians had their way the gay people would be in jail for example.

The a reply to: imwilliam

Religious does not mean Christian. Furthermore, no true Christian would be supportive of trying to create a Christian state or of throwing God on all the money, much less the statues such as the ten commandments being put up at courthouses. Jesus was against each and every one of those.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
I know, right!?

They are not like muslims who living it up to the letter of their koran.

That's one of my biggest criticisms of Sharia Law actually. Muslims claim they love their women, they love them so much, and they're so beautiful that if they looked on them in all their glory the men would lose control and rape them. So they cover them up, lock them away, and make them utterly dependent on their family in order to shield them from the world. It's nothing more than an elaborate way to call the men weak willed and excuse behavior like rape.

Christians and Muslims have quite a bit in common. The extremists in both excuse personal shortcoming by blaming it on the divine word of God telling them they're weak willed.

That said, considering there's a branch of Christians who think Trump is a moral and righteous leader their credibility has been completely and utterly shot. They're just a bunch of Republicans who are using religion to support their political beliefs. I'm pretty sure Jesus said some fairly nasty words about people who do that.

a reply to: imwilliam
it does prevent laws being passed that gives one particular religious group an edge over others, and it prevents the gov't agencies and such from allowing them to be used to promote any one religion... or from blocking any group from enjoying the freedoms that are given to all others.
regardless of majority rule...
if a majority of americans suddenly decided that all the red heads were evil and should be forced to dye their hair, they are protected, by the constitution, the law would not stand!!

a reply to: dawnstar


This isn't, or at least wasn't, a discussion about what percentage of religious people were genuinely religious, however one defines it. It was about Religious leaders spending time at the White House.

My argument is that of course they should. Religious people, or at least people that claim to be so, make up the vast majority of the population. Political leaders should listen to representatives of the vast majority of the population they serve.

I'm not sure what you think I'm arguing beyond that.

a reply to: imwilliam

Prosperity Gospel scammers have a large following too, not to mention the mega churches where the pastors are multi millionaires through donations.

All of those followers consider themselves religious. Should Trump be legitimizing them?

a reply to: Deaf Alien

It prevents them from passing laws based on the Bible.

No it doesn't. It prohibits Congress from making a law respecting the establishment of religion of the free exercise thereof . . .

You don't think we have laws in the US based on Biblical precepts?

a reply to: imwilliam

Yeah, I know perfectly well that it's going to influence them to some degree. That's not the same as actively trying to create a Theocratic Government though is it. Which is what is happening here.

I also don't care if some of them feel insulted or not about what I say. They certainly don't give a damn about being polite or trying to take control over government and forcing their beliefs on others or their judgement for that matter. Those are in fact the ones I'm speaking about too. I know a few actual good christians and I don't talk to them the same way at all. But I've only ever known a few of them and the rest are full of it.

Who says I'm trying to persuade anyone into anything either??? I'm not here to convince them of anything, as if that would be possible anyway. But I'm not going to alter my speech or opinions either until I think it's appropriate. So when the majority of them change my opinion of them, then I'll change what my opinion is.

BTW, I'm not on any side either. I'm speaking for myself and that's it. I don't represent a side other than my side. I'll also get a handle on my anger when they stop pissing me off by doing the kind of stuff like what's being talked about in this thread. I have every right to be angry about some Religious Institutions trying to take over Gov. Don't act like you're any different because you'd do the same if it was any other Religion doing it too. In fact most of them are angry about it being a secular Gov. to begin with which is why they're trying to change it.

a reply to: imwilliam

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,

Pretty clear. They are not to make any law favoring a religion over others. If I am wrong then are you saying that they can make laws based on Sharia law?

a reply to: imwilliam
one could argue that they should also be listening to the minority also??

a reply to: Deaf Alien

If the far right evangelical Christians had their way the gay people would be in jail for example.

I'm sure there are some that would be true of. But if every Christian in this country wanted homosexuals to be placed in jail, if Christians prioritized that, it would be so.

The Constitution wouldn't stop it. They're loose because the Christians in this country have allowed them to be, whatever their reasons.

So lets get past the notion that the desire to round up and jail "the gays" is a defining quality of being a Christian.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: imwilliam
one could argue that they should also be listening to the minority also??

The Founding Fathers' original intent was actually to prevent one Christian denomination from ruling over others in government.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: imwilliam

Prosperity Gospel scammers have a large following too, not to mention the mega churches where the pastors are multi millionaires through donations.

All of those followers consider themselves religious. Should Trump be legitimizing them?

I don't want to frighten you or anything, but those are exactly the people who he is listening to. Mega Church Leaders and Prosperity Gospel Scammers make up a large part of the people who he associates with. As well as the leaders of Religious Legal Institutions and Propagandists.

He's not meeting with any small town humble pastors or anything. He's meeting with the super wealthy influential ones.

a reply to: dawnstar

one could argue that they should also be listening to the minority also??

And if one did, I wouldn't argue the contrary. But I think implicit in the OP was the notion that somehow religious people should be ignored, the majority of the population.

I think that's absurd.

a reply to: imwilliam

You mean those Christians would ignore the Constitution that our Founding Fathers and our soldiers fought and died for? Well I suppose that's possible. Just like if there are 51% Muslims in America and they decided they want Sharia law in America that would be possible also?

a reply to: Aazadan
hey that name it and claim it theology could do wonders for our national debt!!
god, I think those diamond mines in south africa should belong to the US, I claim it in the name of Jesus!! what god?? I can have them if I send half the armed forces in to lay hands on them!!! cool!!!

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: CB328

Good for him! It's about time we brought God back into the White House where he belongs.

Hopefully next will be allowing god back in our schools. Get rid of the sickening evil passing for 'science' and 'improving social interaction' CRAP.

peace

Someone kicked god out of the White House? And schools?

God belongs in the White House? I see the campaign slogan now: "God for Prez 2020! It's where I belong, yo."

My understanding is "god" is everywhere.

originally posted by: CB328
Well, what a surprise. Trump is having a bunch of meetings with religious leaders, but is he having meetings with atheist leaders, or humanist leaders, or agnostic, or scientific leaders? Somehow I don't think so. These people already have far too much power in America and have had for decades, why are we bringing them into the white house and focusing on outdated, unproven and regressive beliefs and cultures? Not to mention the government isn't supposed to be espousing any religions, so it could be unconstitutional as well if he makes policies based on these meetings.

www.christianpost.com...

Who is the Atheist leader?
Who is the agnostic leader?
Who is the humanist leader?
Who is the scientific leader ??

If you don't value any religious leaders or their beliefs, then how can you value those other beliefs that don't have any leaders?

a reply to: dawnstar

Actually I think Pat Robertson already claimed those diamond mines for himself a few years back if I remember correctly.