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posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Here is a breakdown of how a self employed person making $51k will pay over 70% in taxes alone.

www.dailykos.com...

Start with $51,939, pay taxes, and only left with $15,275. It seems a bit high to me, but it's definitely over 50%.




posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 04:11 PM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

The average American isn't self employed.

www.bls.gov...

Self employed Americans are still the minority.

The issue for self employed Americans paying that much in taxes is an issue of how they are often classified, lumped with small business instead of workers, at least as far as the IRS operates. And that is an issue of taxes and regulations being too high on small businesses. Which in turn, is the result of politicians, local and national, kissing ass of big business to help stifle the smaller competition.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 04:12 PM
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a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

And that will change the numbers some ... like I said its about 50-55%.

Source: 55%

www.ipi.org...

That does not include Health Insurance, which is officially a tax. That's another 10%.
www.benefitspro.com...

So including that it's 65%. 65% to just taxes.

www.cbsnews.com...

edit on 6-8-2017 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 04:21 PM
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originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: FyreByrd

I hope this is all YouTube, I'd love to see how this goes. We LibSocs are so individualistic I'm having a hard time imagining a consensus on a platform.

And for those of you that think Libertarian Socialism is an oxymoron, this vid was the first comment in the article, conveniently enough. Seven minutes and a pretty good explanation.



My apologies for not watching this sooner.

This is a brilliant video - thank you for providing it. Excellent exposition of the ideas involved, the history of the terminology and the actual meanings .

Thank you. Repost often.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 04:28 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: FyreByrd

But - it isn't all about you. It is about WE.

At least you admit it. Personal freedoms need to be curtailed for the greater good. Some of us don't like that.


Can you don't see the core error in this statement. You are nothing, in fact and practice. You exist only in relation to others and the world in general.

Personal freedom is never 'curtailed' by the highest good - only personal EGO.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 04:38 PM
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a reply to: FyreByrd

No sorry, I don't.

Hypothetical. In order to create a cure for cancer they need 10,000 children. These children will be killed. It's a 100% guarantee they will get a cure.

Are you volunteering your child?



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 04:51 PM
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originally posted by: XAnarchistX
The DSA is garbage and this "Libertarian-Socialist" caucus is the latest nonsense strategy they are using to try and assimilate more 'radical people' to join their "party"


You got a 2for:






posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 04:53 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Kali74


And I'm running at a 50% tax burden as it is once you start totaling up hidden taxes.



PROVE IT. You must have a lousy accountant.
Since healthcare is a tax, add in what you pay for healthcare.
www.forbes.com...

There are numerous other hidden taxes as well.


Healthcare is not a TAX - it's a 'mandated' insurance - like auto insurance. Mandated to protect the public from individuals who want to externalize their costs on to society as a whole.


edit on 6-8-2017 by FyreByrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 04:55 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: FyreByrd

But - it isn't all about you. It is about WE.

At least you admit it. Personal freedoms need to be curtailed for the greater good. Some of us don't like that.


Can you don't see the core error in this statement. You are nothing, in fact and practice. You exist only in relation to others and the world in general.

Personal freedom is never 'curtailed' by the highest good - only personal EGO.


Hell of an attitude !!



The Human Species has at least 50,000 years to go before anything happens.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Kali74


And I'm running at a 50% tax burden as it is once you start totaling up hidden taxes.



PROVE IT. You must have a lousy accountant.
Since healthcare is a tax, add in what you pay for healthcare.
www.forbes.com...

There are numerous other hidden taxes as well.


Healthcare is not a TAX - it's a 'mandated' insurance - like auto insurance. Mandated to protect the public from individuals who want to externalize there costs on to society as a whole.



And mandated insurance amplifies the "externalizing"




posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 05:02 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: FyreByrd

First there is federal tax. Then there is state tax. Then there is sales tax. We also have a local earnings tax. That's isn't counting gas tax and all the hidden fees tucked into all our bills we pay on things like utilities and cell phones that are really put there by federal and state entities. Then there are the withholdings that have nothing to do with direct federal and state taxes but are for social security and similar. We might as well consider health care to be a tax these days too thanks to ACA since I will be punished with a tax for not having it.

All those things add up.


You forgot - Worker's Compensation, General Liability and other business insurances, homeowers/renters insurance - are those taxes as well - not necessarily imposed by the State but by Corporate Interests.

Is the Homeowner's insurance required by your mortgage a TAX? What about the 'default insurance' written in to so many mortgages that pays out to your mortgage holder not you in the event of a default. It that a TAX or a contractual obligation?

What about the Social Contract - what responsibilities do you have to the Public Good.

I truly am frightened by 'Freedom' people who see only one side of the equation. They rarely talk about 'Responsibility' or, when they do, it is only in terms of 'responsibility to self'.

Well sweetheart - you only exist and have what you have because of the good-will of others - close and far - today and yesterday. And you are responsible to and for them.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 05:05 PM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: FyreByrd

No sorry, I don't.

Hypothetical. In order to create a cure for cancer they need 10,000 children. These children will be killed. It's a 100% guarantee they will get a cure.

Are you volunteering your child?





posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 03:17 AM
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Insurance is not a tax, because insurance money goes into the pockets of private insurance companies. not the public coffers. The various sales taxes on things like phones and the like, even with income taxes, does not add up, even averaged, to 50% of income for taxes for the average American.Since state and local taxes vary widely, and are an issue of local, not federal government.

The average American's total tax burden is closer to 30%, not 50 or 70. This figure includes non-income taxes, like sales and excise taxes.

www.fool.com...
www.aol.com...
www.justfacts.com...
time.com...

The closest I've seen anyone pay to 50% are people who live in places like California and New York. Those two states combined make up a 5th of the population. Then there are numerous other states few or no income taxes, no sales taxes, ect. so the average drops considerably when you figure that in.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 02:26 PM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
How can a party be Liberterian and socialism at the same time?

I think we have propagandist out there trying to sew seeds of confusion. No one wants to be a republican anymore.







posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 07:10 PM
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originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Insurance is not a tax, because insurance money goes into the pockets of private insurance companies. not the public coffers. The various sales taxes on things like phones and the like, even with income taxes, does not add up, even averaged, to 50% of income for taxes for the average American.Since state and local taxes vary widely, and are an issue of local, not federal government.

The average American's total tax burden is closer to 30%, not 50 or 70. This figure includes non-income taxes, like sales and excise taxes.

www.fool.com...
www.aol.com...
www.justfacts.com...
time.com...

The closest I've seen anyone pay to 50% are people who live in places like California and New York. Those two states combined make up a 5th of the population. Then there are numerous other states few or no income taxes, no sales taxes, ect. so the average drops considerably when you figure that in.





I like your distinction between Tax and Not-Tax - Money that goes to the government vs Money that goes to private industry.

I'll have to put together something on this because then 'logically' much of what we pay to the government goes first and foremost to private industry - primarily the cost of Financing our expenses.

Great viewpoint - Well Done.



posted on Aug, 7 2017 @ 07:19 PM
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originally posted by: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Insurance is not a tax, because insurance money goes into the pockets of private insurance companies. not the public coffers. The various sales taxes on things like phones and the like, even with income taxes, does not add up, even averaged, to 50% of income for taxes for the average American.Since state and local taxes vary widely, and are an issue of local, not federal government.

The average American's total tax burden is closer to 30%, not 50 or 70. This figure includes non-income taxes, like sales and excise taxes.

www.fool.com...
www.aol.com...
www.justfacts.com...
time.com...

The closest I've seen anyone pay to 50% are people who live in places like California and New York. Those two states combined make up a 5th of the population. Then there are numerous other states few or no income taxes, no sales taxes, ect. so the average drops considerably when you figure that in.





The Supreme Court says it is.




posted on Aug, 8 2017 @ 01:46 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

But - it isn't all about you. It is about WE.

........

Freedom, to me, is the freedom to live my life on my terms - not yours.




With all due respect, you do see the problem with your statements don't you ? So Ketsuko can't live his life on his terms, because he needs to realize it's not all bout him. But for you, you get to live your life on your own terms.... What is the litmus test for those who must pitch in (because it's not about them) and those who get to enjoy life on their "terms" ?

Indeed some Animals are more "equal" than others....



posted on Aug, 8 2017 @ 01:49 PM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Kali74


And I'm running at a 50% tax burden as it is once you start totaling up hidden taxes.



PROVE IT. You must have a lousy accountant.
Since healthcare is a tax, add in what you pay for healthcare.
www.forbes.com...

There are numerous other hidden taxes as well.


Healthcare is not a TAX - it's a 'mandated' insurance - like auto insurance. Mandated to protect the public from individuals who want to externalize their costs on to society as a whole.



Wrong... It's a tax. That's been settled. You do also realize the "auto insurance" argument is a loser too right ?



posted on Aug, 8 2017 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: FyreByrd

What is ad hominem about that? the DSA is garbage...



posted on Aug, 9 2017 @ 07:23 AM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd
Healthcare is not a TAX - it's a 'mandated' insurance - like auto insurance.

Obama said it was a tax and the Courts agreed. So it's a tax, that's what it's official status is.




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