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Republicans in Breach of Contract? A new political standard?

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posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 09:41 PM
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originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: TheRedneck

I wish they made it a class-action suit.

I'd like to join!


They need to sue people liek john mccain for his voting against party wishes. If you do not vote with your party you should not be allowed to be a part of it.


We don't elect political parties - we elect representatives. The United States is a Representative Democracy, not a Pure Democracy, and it operates as a Congress not as a Parliament. Please study the implications of those differences. I'm sure your local Community College has an introductory civics class they could hook you up with.

The recent (as in last 9 years or so) GOP experiments with the Parliamentary Party model, should have seen them resign and get the heck out of the way dozens of times already. Why aren't they gone?




posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 10:12 PM
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a reply to: DancedWithWolves

Obamacare is not health care.

Many states already have no competition, and some are about to have no insurers under Obamacare. Premiums are rising everywhere, and so are deductibles, to the point that many are unable to see any benefit from the policies. I have personally been told by HR people that the real reason I can't find a job is because of my age and the fact that if a company hires older workers their mandated insurance rates skyrocket. That means I can't get a job to get health insurance.

And you still say it's a good thing?

TheRedneck



posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 10:21 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

  • They often become lobbyists when they leave office.

    And, don't they get to keep their healthcare when they leave office as well????



  • posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 10:25 PM
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    a reply to: TheRedneck

    It's not fraud, you can say anything you want in a campaign. Donations are donations, they're not compensation for a contract.



    posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 10:27 PM
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    originally posted by: 727Sky
    If that law suit is not dismissed I can imagine the big can of worms it will open ! There really should be a way of holding political parties and individuals responsible .... All the political pandering about doing away with the POS ACA yet when it came time.. Nothing but bought and paid politicians.. what a joke on all of us and the well being of our citizens.


    There is a way to hold them responsible. It's called voting.

    If voting isn't enough, you can take it a step further and run yourself. It's a public office, anyone can do it.



    posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 10:29 PM
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    originally posted by: WeRpeons
    How about if politicians are required to wear a shock collar once they take office and the people hold the zapper! Lie or don't keep their promises, hit the zap button. Hit the vibration button as a warning if they're supporting bad legislation. What a sight that would be!
    .


    No one competent would subject themselves to those job terms. Being a hardass on an elected official, just makes a qualified person say f it and go elsewhere. That's how you lower the quality of your congressmen.



    posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 10:32 PM
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    a reply to: seasonal

    I think the issue is that we just haven't been electing capable people to congress. There's no excuse for not having a single new idea in 8 years. The only explanation I'm left with, is that they're incapable of thinking outside the box.



    posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 10:32 PM
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    a reply to: TheRedneck

    I'm sorry for your troubles. Yes, I still think it is a good thing and a major step in the right direction. Can it be made much better? Yes.

    Has it been destabilized by being the #1 wedge issue used to artificially divide us? Yes.

    Can we work together to improve it? Yes.

    I truly am sorry for your personal troubles and wish you and yours the best.

    Peace Redneck. Good to see you around.



    posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 10:34 PM
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    originally posted by: TheRedneck
    Not necessarily. It would cause lawmakers to have to actually work for a change *gasp* or let laws expire. Think about their job now:
    • They go home whenever they feel like it.
    • They get the best benefits in the nation.
    • They have the best retirement in the nation.
    • They have no 'boss.'
    • They stand around and chat while at 'work.'
    • They hire people to do any work their job requires, and their employees are paid by someone else (taxpayers).
    • They do not stand to lose their job or have their pay docked for not doing the job they promised to do.
    • They get to decide what their job duties entail.
    • They get to give themselves a raise when they want one.
    • They get book deals and ceremonial positions with more lucrative benefits and compensation after they 'retire.'

    That ranks right up there with "beer taste-tester at a couch factory in the lobby of the Playboy Hotel.' It beats the heck out of the next two best positions: Jersey barrier anchor (the guy on the road crew who sits on the Jersey barriers all day to keep them from floating away) and bridge height estimator (the guy on the road crew who looks over bridges all day to figure out how high he thinks they are).

    I kinda like his idea. And a Constitutional Amendment, unlike a Federal law, can be implemented over the wishes of Congress.


    That's extremely similar to the terms of my current job.



    posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 10:39 PM
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    originally posted by: Bone75
    It's 2017 and we have the internet now.


    Thanks to the internet, a Republic vs a direct Democracy is more relevant than ever. The job of a legislator (if they're doing it correctly) is to research an issue and determine a position on it. Many issues come up for vote, a congressman should be about an 80% research position for that reason. The ordinary person has no time to research everything. And even if they do, it's an unreasonable expectation to expect 6-10 hours of research on subjects every single day just to keep up with government process.

    There needs to be people in government who can do this for us. Direct Democracy is nothing more than a way to cast a lot of poorly informed votes.



    posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 10:52 PM
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    a reply to: Aazadan

    Wish I could agree with you.
    The repubs lied.
    Simple.
    They said they are going to repeal-then repeal&replace. All Lies, they are bought by lobbyists or worse.
    They were expecting the BS to continue with a Hillary presidency. Your view is what people thought 10 years ago before Trump was elected forcing the repubs hand showing that they are full of crap and not worth wiping out of congress using toilet paper.


    I think the issue is that we just haven't been electing capable people to congress. There's no excuse for not having a single new idea in 8 years. The only explanation I'm left with, is that they're incapable of thinking outside the box.




    edit on 5-8-2017 by seasonal because: (no reason given)



    posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 10:57 PM
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    a reply to: seasonal

    My view was that they had no ideas, I was hoping I was wrong... seems I was right though.

    All they had was repeal/replace, but they never figured out a replacement implementation. I assume this is because they would only accept an insurance model, and insurance simply doesn't work for health care. Since the ACA is a very effective implementation of insurance, that left them with nothing unless they significantly changed the party platform.

    What really hurts, is that the party has no leaders who could stand up, with a good alternative plan, and fight to change the platform.



    posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 11:14 PM
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    a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

    I think it is part of their retirement package, yes.

    TheRedneck



    posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 11:15 PM
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    a reply to: Aazadan

    You seem to be omitting the fact that they said they were going to repeal, then repeal and replace. They lied. And any of the fine repubs could have stood up and said they have no plan. Third party time.

    My view is they are being paid not to come up with ideas and keep the money flowing to the medical cabal. The only way costs come down now is a single payer or no insurance. We have no leadership willing to lead.



    posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 11:17 PM
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    a reply to: Aazadan

    A good point, but if I contribute money for a specific cause, say to aid starving children in Africa, and the company I donated to does not use the money to accomplish their stated goal, that is indeed fraud and can result in criminal prosecution.

    Fraud charges do not have to be in the venue of compensation for a service.

    TheRedneck



    posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 11:25 PM
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    a reply to: Aazadan


    Thanks to the internet, a Republic vs a direct Democracy is more relevant than ever. The job of a legislator (if they're doing it correctly) is to research an issue and determine a position on it. Many issues come up for vote, a congressman should be about an 80% research position for that reason. The ordinary person has no time to research everything. And even if they do, it's an unreasonable expectation to expect 6-10 hours of research on subjects every single day just to keep up with government process.

    There needs to be people in government who can do this for us. Direct Democracy is nothing more than a way to cast a lot of poorly informed votes.

    That, sir, is an excellent post!

    The issue is that we are electing officials who do not do their due diligence in researching proposed legislation, or who use their research to benefit the few rather than the majority. The only way to get good people into Congress is to expose the corrupt officials to the voters. As you say, though, that requires more than simple exposure; it also requires that media work as they were intended to, as watchdogs of governmental corruption. That is something that today seems like a pipe dream complete with fairies riding unicorns galloping along rainbows to say hello to the leprechauns guarding their pots of gold at the ends.

    TheRedneck



    posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 12:23 AM
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    a reply to: TheRedneck

    I voted for Trump and other Republicans because they said Obamacare would be repealed. I'm ready for the repeal now. Thank goodness for this attorney who is stepping up he represents us ALL who voted on this issue. I am thankful for him, as I don't have the money or skills to step up myself.



    posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 02:47 AM
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    a reply to: TheRedneck

    The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

    I support the sentiment behind the lawsuit. If nothing else, I hope the lawsuit the lawsuit, highlights how GOP Senators are deliberately undermining President Trump and their country. GOP Senators would prefer to see their country go off the fiscal/economic cliff rather than see a successful Trump presidency. The established GOP elite will not accept that someone from their class is not President, so they are using healthcare to hold up domestic reforms.

    The danger is if the GOP Jacksonian revolt is ignored, the failure of the legal/political process, tips the USA, onto the road towards a second Civil War.

    As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



    posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 09:38 AM
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    a reply to: xpert11

    That is a distinct possibility. We have both political parties right now at odds with the population. The Democrats have been soundly rejected due to their unwanted intrusion into private lives and their continual demonization of anyone who tries to debate them on policy. The Republicans were put in power to change that direction, and Trump was elected to show just how fed up the people are with political standards of inadequacy from both sides.

    Now one party is attempting to override the will of the people through legal trickery and baseless accusations, while the other is refusing to accept the decisions made by the people. I saw the beginning of Greg Gutfeld last night, and he has it right: the result of either blocking the Trump agenda without just cause or removing Trump without just cause will not be a pretty thing to watch.

    This lawsuit may go nowhere, but it is a 'shot across the bow' if nothing else.

    TheRedneck



    posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 10:11 AM
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    originally posted by: TheRedneck
    a reply to: Aazadan

    A good point, but if I contribute money for a specific cause, say to aid starving children in Africa, and the company I donated to does not use the money to accomplish their stated goal, that is indeed fraud and can result in criminal prosecution.

    Fraud charges do not have to be in the venue of compensation for a service.

    TheRedneck


    There's a lot of leeway in that situation though. I think a good example of this is the veteran aid groups. Wounded Warrior has been well documented as a near fraud organization only spending 60% of donations on vets and pocketing the rest. Their competition spends 95% or more on vets. But, Wounded Warrior targets a lot of right wing celebrities for advertisements and gets a lot of donations as a result. They've been able to avoid being called a fraud even though they spend lavishly internally and give relatively little to the group they're supposed to be helping.

    It gets more murky with politics too, not only is it a political organization or even just a candidate rather than an entire business, but you can't hold one person responsible for what another person does when they're all mostly equal. It's not like a business where a leader can issue a decree and the employees fall in line. Representatives and Senators aren't answering to a single higher power. They answer to the group they represent and when the majority of those groups back an idea, things happen.

    It's this same reason as to why any given member of congress typically holds a 60%+ approval rating, but congress as a whole is in the 10%'s. We all like what our members are doing for us, we just don't like how everyone else is looking after their own interests rather than ours.



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