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Living through an ironic paradox

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posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 07:14 PM
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It is a strange feeling when you believe something to be real and genuine and then speak to someone who actually believe that the complete opposite is the real truth.
We call this a paradox. Two opposite things that are true at the same time.
Well in this case one side has to be wrong.

I came across a blog of a seemingly smart atheist woman who claims that there is no supreme being in the universe with 99.99% certainty. But more than that, she is happy to lead people in the 'right' direction by showing them how science proves there is no God. Then, my heart beat rise and I say to myself:
" Wait! I'm a believer and I also think that by sharing my vision I lead people in the right direction."

I checked in the comment section and saw that she was very active so I wrote a quick message to her.
She responded back and linked me to another of her article about NDEs and the fact that it is all chemicals-related.

I then took the time to respond to her adequately and I'm interested to have ATS opinions on this matter and see what you guys stand for.

Original article (Hawkings talking about God)
owlcation.com...

Comment from her -


Stephen Hawking has said that there is no heaven and no afterlife either. He has called these ideas "fairy tales." What happens to us after we die? Nothing. Bodies decompose and to paraphrase a line from the "The Grand Design"--the particles that made up our body might end up on the far side of Alpha Centauri or in the meatloaf at the cafeteria.


NDEs article
owlcation.com...

Here is what I responded to her -

My deer Catherine, I have read through a lot of your articles and comments and I must confess everytime I was scratching my head over your reasoning.

You claimed many times that god do NOT exist without an ounce of doubt. That everything related to the experience of the supernatural is an illusion. That NDEs are all subjectives dellusions.
That you are 99.99% certain that what mankind has believed for THOUSANDS of years is wrong.

Oh my. That's a very bold assumption you made there considering you have absolutely no proofs whatsoever. All you have is a very young science to rely upon and I'm surprised you ingest all of that scientific data so easily without taking the time to take things into perspective.

Have you ever wondered what was the purpose of all of this creation? All those known biological functions serve a purpose right? Procreation is the answer provided by a lot of atheists. Is that it, really?

Are we really here to only eat, sleep and recreate?
What about learning.
Suffering.
Joy and happiness.
Sadness and hate.
Love.
True love.
Partnership, meaningful relationships.
War.
Forgiveness.
Etc.

What science think of all of this?
If there is a purpose to this life, and I profoundly think there is, then that means that all atoms that exist serves a higher purpose. The law of physics are only the basic foundation that permit this purpose to fulfill itselfs. When you look at reality through the lens science, you only look at a portion of this universe.

Think of it like a computer. The computer gives the user an experience on a screen. It can be a movie, a video game or a blog like yours, Catherine. Then if you want to understand how it works you can put all pieces and components aside and look at them individually. The graphic card, ram, motherboard, sound card, etc. When you put them together however, you get a computer and the unique experience it provides. However, each parts means nothing if they are separated.
The analogy is that the computer is God, the experience is life and the universe and finally, all the electrical parts that compose it are exactly what science is looking at right now.

Did you know that the scientific explanation for love is that it is only chemicals-based. Science do not take the time to consider meaning to things. Love is more than just a biological function. In fact, it is a whole LOT more than that but yet science fails to even start to comprehend. Just like NDEs, science will provide what it knows best: look at the materialistic aspect of life. The components of a computer if you like.
Ironically, NDEs have served a more profound purpose to most of all who have experienced it even though science doesn't give credit to it.
Those people came back changed, transformed and with a purpose. For some it was the experience of a lifetime. But still, you put it in the illusion box. Really?

We could discuss this for a very long time but you are wrong on something about NDEs. There ARE cases that science fails to explain with the theory it actually provides. At best it tries to portray it as a completely normal and logical phenomenon but it isn't, trust me.

On one of my previous comment to you I mentionned that I had seen the future in my dreams many times. I didn't see your curiosity arise on this instead you linked to another of your article and did what I felt was a mockery. You said I quote:
'' It is like I have "surrnatura" abilities also because I published it only yesterday and it is the perfect response to your comment. "

I did read your article and we could discuss on another post but for now hear me out on something.
It is possible to see the future in dreams.
It is also possible to have an intuition about an upcoming event in a real life scenario.
I know for sure science can't accept it to be true (for now). And I would bet 1M$ not you also.
You see that's the irony with your line of thinking and science. Surnatural things truly happen outside of your reductive box, even if you so cling to it. Maybe you have never experienced those kind of 'miracles' in your life, and that's unfortunate for you, but I'm sure you have heard about it.
This is the limitations of science.
You have millions of people around the world, if not billions, claiming to have seen and experienced the divine but still it is not good enough. You talk about trust and trusting science, but you can't even trust your fellow relatives. I also have multiple testimonies of friends and family that highly tend to prove in the presence of spirits all around us. And a whole lot more of #ed up stuff.

I'll tell you a little secret -
God can only be found from within.
Science is going in the wrong direction if it truly wants to discover ALL creation. However, I believe one day science and spirituality will walk hand in hand.

Until then, I wish you well Catherine in your quest for the ultimate truth.
But quite frankly, and please take this as a subjective constructive remark, you are heading in the wrong direction. And bringing a lot of people with you (with your articles and selective mindset). Think twice, because we must all answer to the consequences of our actions in the end.

And by the way, you don't have to believe in any religions to find God. Simply look within and be honest with yourself.

Peace!




posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 07:37 PM
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and I'm interested to have ATS opinions on this matter and see what you guys stand for.


Well, since you ask . . . .

Personally, I don't stand for anything in the matter of "gods". However from a position of having friends on the other side and spending more of my time there then here, I can't say there is not a christian God . I have met some people who think they are God and have a following on the other side.

I have met other gods such as the Nagi of India.

Plus there are lots of deceased (so called) people I see every day. They look just alive as we are to the point I can't tell the difference except they often look younger then they did when I knew them in life.

So, from my point of view Mr Hawking's not correct.

If there is a reason for living; I would suggest to be.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 07:42 PM
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I like how Stephen hawking believe in none of it. Yet the basic scientific principal proves him otherwise. Not saying god. But a life after death...oh yeah.

I don't know it will the heaven you religious people believe in but it will be something.

The electrical impulses in our brains. That makes us who we are. Is energy. Basic science tells us. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It only transforms. So our soul (the energy in our brains) will travel to god knows where.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 07:49 PM
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originally posted by: Whatsthisthen



and I'm interested to have ATS opinions on this matter and see what you guys stand for.

However from a position of having friends on the other side and spending more of my time there then here



What do you mean by spending most of your time there? Can you please elaborate?



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 07:54 PM
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a reply to: ConscienceZombie

I also think science contradicts itself with the following statement:
" Nothing is created, nothing is destroyed, all is transformed".

And then Hawkings. How could he has so much knowledge of the ultimate complexity of this universe and seen proofs of intelligent design everywhere and still make this claim?
Maybe he didn't forgive life for his disease yet..



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 07:58 PM
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originally posted by: St0rD
a reply to: ConscienceZombie

I also think science contradicts itself with the following statement:
" Nothing is created, nothing is destroyed, all is transformed".

And then Hawkings. How could he has so much knowledge of the ultimate complexity of this universe and seen proofs of intelligent design everywhere and still make this claim?
Maybe he didn't forgive life for his disease yet..


I don't know how they came up with the big bang theory with that being said.

That was little cold about SH. Probably true though. I know I would.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 08:10 PM
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originally posted by: ConscienceZombie

originally posted by: St0rD
a reply to: ConscienceZombie

I also think science contradicts itself with the following statement:
" Nothing is created, nothing is destroyed, all is transformed".

And then Hawkings. How could he has so much knowledge of the ultimate complexity of this universe and seen proofs of intelligent design everywhere and still make this claim?
Maybe he didn't forgive life for his disease yet..


I don't know how they came up with the big bang theory with that being said.

That was little cold about SH. Probably true though. I know I would.


Well I believe they came with this theory when they realized the universe was expanding ATM. So they thought this expansion had to start from a specific point in time/ space.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 08:54 PM
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Science is quite a hard headed cult.

If anything, I adore the fact that this woman will be completely astonished when she proves herself wrong in time. 👍

She's in for a treat.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 09:07 PM
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a reply to: St0rD

Well the world don't move to the beat of just one drum. What might be right for you, might not be right for some...



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 09:33 PM
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If scientist want to uncover and understand reality on a higher level then they can use objective reasoning to do it.

If you follow the data and examine for instance synchronicity/Pauli effect and think about entanglement a bit then you can see how entanglement can produce the Synchronicity.

You can with entanglement think about how a non local information matrix (soul) can be connected to a biological brain and share information thru the unconscious. You can also explain how some people manipulate (positively) each others bodies with the help of entanglement thru different tools (like reiki).

It is not the scientific theory that suck but the lack of scientist using it skillfully. Give me a 100 Tesla:s, Einsteins and Bohr:s and allow them to follow the data without interference of the rest of the world and how PSI/NDE/Synchronicity is manifested will be known within a 100 years.




“The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence.” ― Nikola Tesla



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 10:01 PM
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originally posted by: AgarthaSeed
Science is quite a hard headed cult.

If anything, I adore the fact that this woman will be completely astonished when she proves herself wrong in time. 👍

She's in for a treat.


Yeah right.
It's like she is walking blind folded in life thinking she got it right.

She didn't even publish my comment man look at what she answered me:



Jeremy Aub: (And others): Comments should be succinct and should stay on topic. Pick one point from the article and give your opinion or add pertinent information. A comment is not the place for a long rambling discourse. If you have that much to say, I suggest you join HubPages (It's totally free.) and start writing your own hubs.

Also, I want to mention that I only allow a person to comment twice on the same hub. If after two exchanges, you haven't convinced me and I haven't convinced you, it is pointless to go on and on. It's best if we each just walk away.

I thank you for your interest in my writing. I'm sorry I can't permit overly-long comments, off-topic comments, and multiple comments.


BS if you ask me.
I then proceeded to send a response in his private box.

Honestly Catherine,
 It's ok if you refuse to let my post through. In the end my comment was precisely directed to you.

I wanted to make this thoughtful woman question her stance on her belief at least a little bit.
Because what I see here is a person seeing only one side of a coin and sticking to it. Whatever the reasons that led you to that choice I can tell you for sure it is a very dangerous road to go.

You are not going to hell if you don't believe in God Catherine, don't worry. THAT is religious dogma.
But, there is consequences to your line of thinking. You claim there is no proof of God when there actually is. You go with your life blinded to what most of reality is based on scientific assumptions. And I'm telling you, you are lying to yourself. And to others at the same time. Maybe you don't realize it yet, but some people come to your blog and strongly relate to it. They find logic in your statements and then it reinforces their view about reality and God. You have responsibility over what you provide to others.
So when you claim so strongly that God is an illusion and that you are on the road of truth,  when in reality there is a very high probability that you are not, you have a huge impact on this world. This is called the butterfly effect.

So come on, be wiser and realize that deep within yourself you have no freaking idea what this reality is. Stop pretending to know for certain something to be an illusion when you are just as lost as everyone else. If you REALLY want to enlighten others just like you claim, please consider the other side of the coin with your eyes and heart open.

Good success in your endeavors.




posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 10:49 PM
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originally posted by: St0rD
I'm interested to have ATS opinions on this matter and see what you guys stand for.


I think you're both equally wrong and right at the same time. From an ontological perspective it doesn't matter what you believe, what matters are your actions. I suspect the most ardent atheist who lives for positive, constructive and uplifting actions for themselves and those around them will enjoy equally in the splendor that this life (or the next if it is to be) can be inasmuch as the most pious adept of any religion under the same circumstances would also.

You ever think that we waste this life/experience worrying about what comes next and who's right and wrong? If the masses wish to believe that they exist in a empty uncaring void and this life is the sum total of existence, yet they live lives filled with love and enrichment, peace and prosperity for themselves and those around them, would you consider them damned? Would you consider their lives not enriched or unfulfilled merely because they didn't agree with your personal belief/interpretation of something that would otherwise not alter their lives (in my earlier example)?

Ultimately I believe it's the acme of arrogance to claim knowing (one way or another) - and in the end inconsequential.
edit on 31pm17fpmFri, 04 Aug 2017 22:52:21 -0500America/ChicagoFri, 04 Aug 2017 22:52:21 -0500 by Wayfarer because: spelling



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 10:57 PM
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I don't think it's really a paradox, because the truth is we don't know. We don't know a lot of things.

That's why they call it faith. No matter which deity or scientific reasoning you choose to believe, it's still all faith.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 11:18 PM
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a reply to: St0rD




What do you mean by spending most of your time there? Can you please elaborate?


Just that I have an eye in each world. That is to say I have more friends there then here, and there is far more to do there then here. So the other side is where I like to hang out.

That is not to suggest that I hang out with human masters and saints. Other Beings are, shall we say; far more genuine and cause less trouble then humans. In fact I spend more time rescuing Beings from humans then anything else. Human wrought slavery and cruelty is rife on the inner just like this world. Humans are very self important and think they have rights to control others. Doesn't help when people develope magics and esoteric sciences that depend on the power of other Beings.


edit on 4-8-2017 by Whatsthisthen because: fixed typo and changed word for improved clarity



posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 01:53 AM
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originally posted by: St0rD
It is a strange feeling when you believe something to be real and genuine and then speak to someone who actually believe that the complete opposite is the real truth.
We call this a paradox. Two opposite things that are true at the same time.
Well in this case one side has to be wrong.

Not so.
Actually such 'either/or', 't/f', Aristotelian 'logic' has been eviscerated by QM!
Not only is A=A, but at the same time, A=/=A and A sometimes = A and every other combination of 'possibilities'!

"All statements are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense." -Robert Anton Wilson

"For every Perspective, there is an equal and opposite Perspective!" - The First Law of Soul Dynamics

That two opposite Perspectives are both valid is easily seen by those who claim the coin is described by Heads, and the others, on the other side describe it as Tails! The ignorant fight over who is 'right', the Wise Know that we all perceive the One Truth;

"The acceptance and understanding of other Perspectives furthers our acquaintance with Reality!"

and;

"The complete Universe (Reality/Truth/God/'Self!'/Tao/Brahman... or any feature herein...) can be completely defined/described as the synchronous sum-total of all Perspectives!"
ALL INCLUSIVE!!!

Reality/Truth/Existence is ALL inclusive!




edit on 5-8-2017 by namelesss because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 05:21 AM
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a reply to: namelesss

Sometimes the thing you are measuring is an elephant and all perspective telling it is not a elephant is miss guided (untrue) since the whole picture is not clear.



Your idea at it's most extreme leads to total unknowing instead of questioning the data and refining the answers.

Just because you are a part in a system of parts it does not automatically tell you the whole of the parts. A cell in a body can have the wrong information/perception/belief about the shape of the whole body it belongs to is. That the cell is unaware of how the whole should be represented truthfully objectively do not change that the whole includes the information from the cell within itself.

There is only one single representation of what was/is/will be that is objectively true. That we have a problem measuring it and becoming aware of it does not change that.

With awareness we can sort the things we know and the things that seems probable and increase the size of things we know and things that seem probable.

Mathematics is a good example of a field we know to be objectively true. Opinion do not matter in Mathematics. 2+1=3 and no other value. Physics is a field where we hopefully increase the models to explain more of the unknown.



posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 06:18 AM
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originally posted by: St0rD
So come on, be wiser and realize that deep within yourself you have no freaking idea what this reality is. Stop pretending to know for certain something to be an illusion when you are just as lost as everyone else. If you REALLY want to enlighten others just like you claim, please consider the other side of the coin with your eyes and heart open.


This is true OP, but to be fair you are being just as arrogant as she is, pretending like you know about the afterlife or the nature of God. The blind leading the blind.



posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 06:40 AM
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originally posted by: ConscienceZombie
I like how Stephen hawking believe in none of it. Yet the basic scientific principal proves him otherwise. Not saying god. But a life after death...oh yeah.

I don't know it will the heaven you religious people believe in but it will be something.

The electrical impulses in our brains. That makes us who we are. Is energy. Basic science tells us. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. It only transforms. So our soul (the energy in our brains) will travel to god knows where.



This if we are mere atoms. An science is right that matter can only be converted into energy and Energy only into matter. Then everything we are made out of has been here in the universe for 14 billion years. And obviously was there prior to the universe.

If this is true then how can people not believe that this atoms will rearrange themselves into a being in the future. It took us we believe 14 billion years to exist but that's the point.

We've already come from not existing to existing so why the hell do people not believe that those atoms that make them up will come together in the future. We our on a journey an we have been an will be every part of the universe in different stages of this experience.

What makes us has been an always will be here so even if we our not conscious. Our energy will still exist. Given us unlimited chances of expression this is a comforting thought. Just my own take. We have been galaxies, we have been solar systems, we have been stars.

We our 14 billion years old an we will be a part of this universe until it ends.
edit on 5-8-2017 by UK2315 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 09:47 AM
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originally posted by: Cutepants

originally posted by: St0rD
So come on, be wiser and realize that deep within yourself you have no freaking idea what this reality is. Stop pretending to know for certain something to be an illusion when you are just as lost as everyone else. If you REALLY want to enlighten others just like you claim, please consider the other side of the coin with your eyes and heart open.


This is true OP, but to be fair you are being just as arrogant as she is, pretending like you know about the afterlife or the nature of God. The blind leading the blind.


You are right, I was being arrogant... and honest. Combat fire with fire they say.
She had just censored a comment I put my heart into for very obvious hypocrite reasons, so yeah I dropped my white gloves and went full berserk



posted on Aug, 5 2017 @ 10:03 AM
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a reply to: namelesss

Of course, if you are talking about subjective thinking everything can be considered a truth with the appropriate perspective.

However, when it comes to objective and universal truths, a paradox can't be sustained in all of them. Some truths are ultimate no matter the perspective.
In this instance, the result is simple -
either God exists or he doesn't. You can't have both.

This is why the debate in this regards is a very profound one and may cause even more division in the years to come... unfortunately.



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