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If this were About Obama……

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posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 12:26 PM
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originally posted by: knoxie
a reply to: dukeofjive696969


don't forget Obama was going to force a third term. LOLOLOL


So many priceless gems, thanks for reminding me about that one.

edit on 4-8-2017 by dukeofjive696969 because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin



What I find really amazing though is how ATS I always thought was a place where propaganda like this was resisted.

It seems to me at times like the old wolfs of ATS have turned into the Sheeple.


I will agree that the many die hard Trump fans are at the point of delusional denial, but the left fanboys haven't been playing fair either. Trump is an ego maniacal dunce that has made the United States the laughing stock of the west, however Clinton is about trustworthy as a cuckoo in a robin's nest.

Trust no one.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 12:31 PM
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originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: knoxie

So what happens in an anti Trumpers world the day after Russian state sponsored acts of war are said to be true?

You get rid of Trump. Cool. Have a party. Nice.

What will the hawks in DC do with this win?

Sit on it? Sanction Russia, which Russia will resist, and then we start firing warning shots across lines in the sand.

Russia is ready for war with us. China too. We see alot of American press selling security.

Russian missiles can kill F22s farther away than our super jets can target Russian planes.

Chinese intelligence can compromise most US infrastructure.

Korean subs can sink million dollar ships using diesel subs.

Europe cant help. Japan cant help. The UK cant help.

Why would they shy away from a fight if it will save their country in the long run?



Keep on peddling that pro-war #, I guarantee you'll be on the front-lines fighting the war(s) of your dreams.

Surprise, but many aren't necessarily "anti-Trump," as much as they are "anti-puppet."

Nice attempt at fear-mongering in an attempt to make it look like if "anti-Trumpers," had their way the whole world would devolve into chaos.

Sounds an awful lot like the ignorant liberals who claim the sky is falling by each and every Trump action/inaction.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: tadaman


it's not like I want trump to go, but I DO WANT to know if trump is putin's puppet. hell yes I want to know!

I know damn well putin and his oligarchy do not have our/my best interest at heart.

the way trump is acting towards the sanctions, sessions, Mueller... he's scared shiotless, that should be concerning to every American.
edit on 4-8-2017 by knoxie because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 12:34 PM
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originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin



What I find really amazing though is how ATS I always thought was a place where propaganda like this was resisted.

It seems to me at times like the old wolfs of ATS have turned into the Sheeple.


I will agree that the many die hard Trump fans are at the point of delusional denial, but the left fanboys haven't been playing fair either. Trump is an ego maniacal dunce that has made the United States the laughing stock of the west, however Clinton is about trustworthy as a cuckoo in a robin's nest.

Trust no one.



And I don't think there are many in ATS who are defending Clinton



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 12:35 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: tadaman

Thats hilarious, and nothing like what actually happened at all.

Trump Jnr did not simply "say Hi" to any old Russian, under any old pretext. He met with the individuals in question, specifically because he intended to gain from them, an amount of dirt on his fathers opposition in the election, and would not have been at the meeting otherwise, which is patently obvious and has not been in the slightest bit questioned, leave alone denied, by Trump Jnr, Trump, or anyone connected with them, since the fullness of that story broke.

It was denied in part, then slightly, then not at all. Its collusion, pure and simple, and the only thing that saved Donnie from being outright up on charges about this, are the fact that his father is the sitting president of the United States, and the fact that the dangled carrot of dirt on his fathers opposition, allegedly turned out to be nothing remotely similar. The man would never have been AT that meeting, had it not have been for the promise of something his father could use against Clinton, which means:

The man broke the law, and his greasy, lying, dirtbag father tried to help him cover it, and even now is one of the only reasons that is greasy, lying dirtbag son is not being charged with something.

There is now, no question that Trump Jnr was attempting, in taking that meeting, to gain something of value (dirt on Clinton and her campaign) from it, to alter the course of an election, and that is the exact definition of the sort of collusion which is STRICTLY prohibited under the law of your country. You can bitch and moan about semantics all you like, but those are all facts, not dreams, or made up, or inventions or any other sort of lies, but facts.

That is just ONE of myriad scandals that have and are affecting the Trump camp.


The meeting was not an illegal act. Such dirt finding activities are common when it comes to politics. Colluding with an enemy foreign power would look something like providing friendly troop movements to a wartime enemy nation. What we are talking about here is literally the gossiping of two people who happen to be of different nationalities.

How would that be any different than say, the BBC reporting on some dirt that they uncovered on Trump during the election? Are all Americans now in cahoots with a foreign power by listening to that information.

How about the then-sitting U.S. President acquiring information from the British intelligence community on Trump during the election? Wouldn't that be consider collusion under your definition?

Your thoughts?



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 12:36 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

There was no factual information brought fourth and your talking points are all backed by your beliefs and feelings toward them. What's there to argue about?
This op is a rant.


A lot of trump supporters on ATS are in denial. FACT

ATS would be very different if the allegations face if Trump faced Obama. FACT

The OP is not a rant.... also a FACT



edit on 4-8-2017 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

We are witnessing the results of years of propaganda and brainwashing that goes all the way back to the 30's, the push back from the New Deal and from people such as Rev. James Fifield, the Heritage Foundation and the modern Right Wing machine.

They do not care about honesty or consistency. They care about confirmation bias that fits in-line with what they have been taught to believe.


What I find really amazing though is how ATS I always thought was a place where propaganda like this was resisted.

It seems to me at times like the old wolfs of ATS have turned into the Sheeple.

I don't actually understand how they cannot see that Trump is a elite, if there ever was such a thing as a NWO then surly a candidate like Trump would be there guy.



Great discussion.

One of the big schemes in media and culture... is to provide a cover for "the elites". The way this is managed is being one of the "Elites" is "sold" into the public perception as "the Rich". It's really quite brilliant.

Using that as a criteria, Trump is a member of that "Rich" group.

But the folks that we here at ATS (generally speaking) think should be defined as "The Elites" hide out quite comfortably within that meme virus the major media sells to the mass public. Sure... they're rich... but they are far more than that. They belong to a "club" that the majority of the richest Americans are not allowed to belong to. They LOVE that "Elites" are defined as the wealthy... to the general public. It gives them a huge crowd to blend in to to help avoid scrutiny.

Trump is RICH... but he is not a member of The Elites... at least, not to the elites themselves. He's brash... a showman... very wrapped up in self aggrandizing and promoting the Trump brand... and draws lots of attention to himself.

If you just look at the primaries and even the election campaigning... the entrenched power in the DC Beltway HATED this guy. He won't play by their rules.

Saying I am a Trump supporter, would probably be a bit strong. If we could have just hired a cosmic mass of professional plumbers to go into the toilet called Washington DC and just had them flush the whole lot of em away... that would have made me happy as a clam.

Practically speaking, Trump was the closest we could get to that, in the telling anyway. As I think is typical... most folks with a LOT of money, that aren't members of the inner circle of Elites, are far too naive about how things work behind the scenes. Trump might be more open to the idea of "over-arching" conspiracies than most rich folks in America... but he WOEFULLY underestimated the capacity of the Elites and the Deep State to protect their power base and long term plans... and has managed things in a profoundly amateur way.

As much of an A-hole as Bannon is... Trump should have taken what he was being told by Bannon more seriously. Now the Neo-cons have threatened their way into the power circle of the POTUS. Anything could happen now.

It has to make the Deep State nervous that the folks with all the guns mostly support Trump. Without that "populist base" and pissed off blue and grey collar folks... killing the TPP alone would be sufficient to make a POTUS eligible to have a fatal "accident".

Study the TPP, and what it really meant to the common Janes and Joes of America and the World.

It is NOT hyperbole to say TPP gave multinational corporations authority to pretty much rule the world... OPENLY.

Money, power and the Intel/Banking cartels are running it now, mostly... but TPP strips away the pretense, and reshuffles the deck openly... and nation states and the people in them would be just s**t outta luck.

Make no mistake... the reason DC insiders and Elites want Trump gone has nothing to do with Russia, or any of the other repugnant "memes" that have been constantly dumped into the public perception. Trump won't let go of the notion of the United States as a sovereign nation... he HAS to go if the agenda of the last 100 years is going to reach its goal.
edit on 4-8-2017 by dasman888 because: Zombie bluejays

edit on 4-8-2017 by dasman888 because: typo

edit on 4-8-2017 by dasman888 because: typo



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: RomeByFire

Pro war?

Lol

If it happens, its your share of fault.

Just like everyone who pushed for Iraq after 9/11.

Get away from me.

If you guys have your way, good luck trusting our leaders to let a crisis go to waste on day one of your "victory".

Edit to add:
I probably would go to deal with the consequences of this on the front line. Would you?


edit on 8 4 2017 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: queenofswords

No, but someone involved with it is guilty of conspiring to violate the election laws of the United States, which explicitly prohibit any foreign entity from contributing any thing of value, whether it is financing for a campaign, information on an opponent, free use of offices to run a campaign from, security for a campaign or any other thing of value for that matter.

Conspiracy is criminal in various ways, and Donnie is not the only Trump minion who could be accused of that. There is also evidence pertaining to former players in the Trump camp, that they were recruited by and foreign agents of Russia at the time that they were involved in the Trump campaign and subsequent administration.

But do not let that open your eyes. Stumble around in the dark some more, why don't you.



The word "value" was been taken to mean something of material wealth, like a bribe essentially. The reasoning is to prevent people being bought out by a foreign power that may have interests inconsistent with the home nation. The value is of measurable worth. There is nothing to indicate that information by itself is considered something of value under this law. The value was be rather subjective as the Information given is not necessarily of any value.

This would also be problematic say, if the information received was concerning actual heinous crimes, or that a specific candidate was actually a spy. Would coming into that information during an election and disseminating it be considered collusion, punishable under the law?
edit on 4-8-2017 by timequake because: typo



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

That is a sound theory but assumes that there are no opponents who want to overthrow him.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: dasman888


trump wants to be part of the elite (whatever that means) so damn bad he can't even see straight. have you heard him brag on and on about his wealth?

DC wants to know if trump is putins puppet, plan and simple. Russia has had some super shady stuff. they aren't the good guys.. they sure as hell don't care about us.

why is it so hard to believe some of us actually care about our democracy and we don't appreciate the Russian interference? thankfully, that includes our government officials both democratic and republican.

somehow I seriously doubt "the elite" are concerned with trumps gun carrying base. lol. they're probably relaxing on private islands around the world.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 01:16 PM
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originally posted by: CuriousPaddy
I've said it before and I shall say again, please provide any proof to hate this man and I will follow suit, as it's come to the stage I crave this proof to try and understand what a lot of members on here feel.

ATS is no longer a conspiracy based website, it has become a political pissing match between one side of America, the other side of America, and those in between that would like to see this site get back on track.


In some respects it is hate. In many respects it is not about hating the man, but distrusting him and his alternate or distorted view of facts.

We even see it in his leaked phone calls...We see it in his speeches. We see it in his daily routine.

Being President doesn't mean having a big ego. Being President should be the most humbling job ever, subject to the whims and slings of real politik. It should be about uniting and compromise and actually getting things done in a fair and reasonable manner, and rather than lying outright (or misrepresenting facts) one could be silent.

Basically what I'm saying is that a President should be a leader, and I don't see that in our current one. It's not that I have any hate or emnity towards him, although many people do (and those are the minority that are opposed to him.)



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: TrueBrit




No, but someone involved with it is guilty of conspiring to violate the election laws of the United States, which explicitly prohibit any foreign entity from contributing any thing of value, whether it is financing for a campaign, information on an opponent, free use of offices to run a campaign from, security for a campaign or any other thing of value for that matter.

you will kindly post your source for this


there are specific LEGAL definitions in the CFR for contributions, donations and such
if you have one for "anything of value" i would love to see it



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 01:17 PM
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originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: Flatfish

And the email chain, which was evidence, was dismissed making it benign.

What is illegal about the emails? What was illegal about the meeting besides being a DNC hatch violation. Do you want the DNC investigated if they too did wrong?

What is the evidence pointing to? You are being dishonest.

Its 9/11-Iraq all over again.



Nothing has been dismissed! Where do you come off propagating such total BS?

I beginning to wonder who is the bigger liar, you or the Donald.

I'm not gonna participate in this circle jerk with you any longer.

You sir are quite delusional and you're in for a rude awakening when the indictments start coming down.

And.....The only people who bought into the "Iraq had something to do with 9-11" bulls#*t story were the very same delusional liars who are defending Trump now.

It's no wonder you keep bringing that up.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: Flatfish

So if its not dismissed, what is the violation?
Its not collusion anymore. Not with a 15 minute meeting that was set up by the DNC with a volunatrily fully published email chain.

I resisted the Iraq BS. Did you? Was it because all the fan fare and lies didnt convince you?

You can only insult me, scold me, judge me.

You cant prove what you say with conjecture.

I need evidence of what you say.

Like the transfer speed of the DNC files being impossible by a remote Russian hack.

Seth Rich leaked and the DNC needs a smoke screen to hide the fact thay they had him killed.

Something like that. Verifiable evidence. Not opinion or guesses.

Like guesses about what a large metal tube is, if its a missile. Or that our intelligence services say there are WMDs somewhere. (Which they didnt) our leaders chose to hear that like they chose to hear that Russia (May) have hacked us, among hundreds of attempted attacks daily from all over the world.

This is about leaked DNC emails. Show they were hacked.

This is about Trump Russian state collusion. Show he did.

If not, deal with our lack of faith.

We have been lied to before. Whats different here?


edit on 8 4 2017 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 01:45 PM
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a reply to: tadaman


regarding the possible Russian collusion, the investigation is still on going, we need to be patient.

trump should ignore it. why does he keeps bringing it up? why is he trying to discredit sessions? why all the lies and changing storylines regarding the meeting with the Russian lawyer? why all the omissions on Flynn and Kushner's security clearance? why such a puss regarding the sanctions? why not just release tax returns and end it all?

come on, you HAVE to see why this is all concerning.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: GuidedKill



We voted and our voices were heard....Now I voted for Trump and I'm not here to tell you he is the greatest.. .I'm just here to tell you he was a better choice than the other person and as an American who respects the election process I am more than willing to give him a chance to prove my choice right or wrong..


Two wrongs don't make a right! There were other candidates that the public completely ignored, not saying they were great, but they would have been a hell of a lot better than what we have right now!

Give him a chance? I'm sure you wouldn't have problems complaining about Obama not telling the truth! Not Trump though he's as honest as an angel, lol. How many recorded videos catching Trump lying and contradicting himself do you need to see and realize he's a pathological liar? ANYONE else who would have been elected into office and was caught lying as much as Trump would be crucified by the press. Calling it fake news just because it's an attack on someone you support, is dangerous to a free society. How do you give someone like this any kind of credibility?? Don't you want to trust the word of your elected officials? Do you think it's right he has his own family members helping him create policy?

I've said it before, draining the swamp, term limits and some other things Trump has advocated I can agree on. However, he has too many red flags to allow his narcissistic attitude, and pathological lying to lead the free world and have his finger on the nuclear button. He has no self-control, and he behaves like an incompetent idiot. I always thought W Bush was incompetent, but Trump has taken the cake. It's amazing how Obama has been attacked, but both Hillary and George W. Bush both caused innocent people and military personal to lose their lives based upon factual lies.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: knoxie
Because he is under siege by people who have lost all sense of logic and rational thought.

He is on the defensive. As he should be.

We asked him to change everything we saw as flawed. To go against career politicians that have run our country into the ground.

We knew the old guard we talked about here for over almost 2 decades was going to fight back and do so as dirty and low as possible. That it wasnt a movie. That it was going to be a near impossible job.

That it would get ugly....

He should not trust them for a second.

He is at war. I say finish the fight. Make it easier on those that follow.

Dont give in. Dont let them lie. Dont let them make our capitol into a members only club.

Call them out. End the farce. Do right by us.

What is concerning, and no one wants to touch this is:

The digital evidence of the hack shows it wasnt a hack. That it was a physical leak not a remote connection to Russia.

The evidence validates everything WIKILEAKS said. That the DNC killed Seth Rich for leaking and this is all a smoke screen.

That is scary. I cant believe you are all letting that one go.

I cant trust you people.


edit on 8 4 2017 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 03:03 PM
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Can I flip some of this on its head a bit, this is for the Trump supporters.

Have you ever conceder that you guys are being duped by Trumps propaganda and the pro-Trump media??



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