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Words can now kill

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posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 12:09 AM
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a reply to: RespectfullyDisagree

I agree that what I say is dangerous if bad people were to abuse the principal. But I didn't say my views were based on a level of public outcry. Public outcry is was creates laws in the long run.

This case is unique and I agree with the mercurial decision.

A jury are the ones whom dictates guilt and a judge the sentence. Justice doesn't always match up with laws so this case pleases me in that I feel justice was slightly served by the acknowledgement of such horrible intentions from the girl.

So in answer to your question: the jury decides.. which they did well this time. I also think a jury should have the ability to override technicality driven releases of obvious criminals.

b




posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 12:12 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

Yep - I had exactly the same reaction as you Cowboy as soon as I heard this. The appropriate punishment for the girl is the guilt and public shaming that results from these actions being made known - That's it. No jail time, no conviction of illegality. It's scary what's happening now.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 12:49 AM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

As if "spoken words, not actions" being something that can get you imprisoned, is something new?

It isn't...

"Hey, You. You look like a punk and I'm going to be coming over there to beat your *** ."

Congrats, simple enough really but that's assault. Even if nothing else happens.

Tell me that the above is so much worse than what the person in this story did, over a, relatively, extended period of time and she even knew the person. One scenario no physical harm besides words, and in another the person actually dies..

For people that take issue over the court's ruling, wonder how you would feel thinking everything is fine in your life and your family's life, but while you were at work and preoccupied, another person wasn't and they took advantage of your family member when they were vulnerable...

A man was convicted of a similar thing several years back, don't think there was much objection in that case so why now?

minnesota.cbslocal.com... -of-assisting-suicide-gets-jail/



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 01:57 AM
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a reply to: ghaleon12

That's because he wasn't charged with or found guilty of manslaughter. He was charged with assisting a suicide. From your link:




Melchert-Dinkel was charged with aiding the suicides of Drybrough and Kajouji and convicted in 2011 by Rice County Judge Thomas Neuville, who found that he “intentionally advised and encouraged” the victims to take their lives.


Also from your article: He was convicted, and the conviction was appealed, on the grounds that his actions were "immoral but not illegal." The upshot was that:



The Minnesota Supreme Court reversed Melchert-Dinkel’s convictions earlier this year. The justices found that part of Minnesota’s law that bans someone from “encouraging” or “advising” suicide is unconstitutional because it encompasses speech protected under the First Amendment.

But the justices upheld part of the law that makes it a crime to “assist” in someone’s suicide — and said speech could be considered assisting. The case went back to Neuville, who ruled last month that Melchert-Dinkel assisted in Drybrough’s suicide and attempted to assist Kajouji’s suicide, because she ultimately rejected his advice to hang herself and jumped into the river instead.


He wasn't charged with manslaughter. He was charged with assisting suicide.

Edit to add: If he'd been charged with manslaughter, I would be making the same arguments I've made about the case in the OP.
edit on 6-8-2017 by riiver because: Forgot to answer the poster's main point.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 02:11 AM
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a reply to: riiver

Yet Carter was charged with involuntary manslaughter...


Something of which only the emotional could convict her for.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 03:42 AM
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a reply to: Bspiracy

While I agree public outcry does shape our laws, it should not allow for manipulation of current laws to fit suit. I would rather see specific legislation enacted to address the issue. The problem I foresee is at what point do you draw the line between culpability and personal responsibility? It becomes a slippery soap when we start to blame another for one's own actions.

I agree she should be prosecuted as well but under a charge of assisted suicide and not manslaughter as the I don't believe the crime falls within its legally defined parameters.
edit on 6-8-2017 by RespectfullyDisagree because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 05:12 AM
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originally posted by: EternalSolace
Something of which only the emotional could convict her for.


So, on the one hand we have an experienced Judge , hearing a case in front of a Jury (the best method on the planet for producing a fair trial), who have sat through the entire court case over the course of many days, listening carefully to all the facts, looking at the careful application of the law and weighing the future of a young woman in the balance to discern whether she was guilty of one of the most serious crimes there is.

On the other hand, we have the opinions of people who weren't in court, haven't listened to any of the evidence, or even tried to understand the nature of this woman's offending, or even properly read the news coverage of the trial, but nevertheless are convinced that the defendant is innocent, that a miscarriage of justice has occurred, and the outcome of this trial will lead to draconian attempts to curtail online free speech.

Tell me again which of the two sets of people in the above is reacting emotionally here?



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 07:07 AM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: DBCowboy

It's a tough one, alright.

She's a disgusting bit of (bleep), but she didn't use physical force. But could those texts and whatever else be defined as coercion?

Manslaughter? Not sure about that one. I would hope it'd be enough for this (bleep) to know that she, indirectly as it might have been, helped a young man, a very troubled one obviously, kill himself.


Oh it's a tough one alright. However if I texted this heartless (bleep) and said that she better not drop the soap, and if she did and something vile happened to her, should I be held responsible? In the end she did what where I come from is called a (bleep) act but she was not directly responsible for his actions; but rules is rules and despite the public's opinion she is innocent, just like when the ref's played by the rules and call a touchdown when it clearly is not because rules and all. Shades of grey people, shades of grey.
edit on 6-8-2017 by Thecakeisalie because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 08:41 AM
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a reply to: audubon

I would argue that the judge and jury would be more likely to elicit an emotional response to the case than the average person reading about it. Having to sit through day after day of testimony in front of grieving families is bound to cause stronger emotions than just reading words on a page.
Also the idea that the judge and jury are infallible and as such are above reproach is laughable. That is why we have an appeals process. "To err is human" my friend.
edit on 6-8-2017 by RespectfullyDisagree because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: Thecakeisalie

She convinced him to do it, she did not make a passing statement. the two are not analogous at all.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 09:30 AM
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a reply to: RespectfullyDisagree

Of course trial by Jury isn't infallible,and I never said it was. But (to paraphrase Churchill): "It's the worst method there is, apart from all the others."

(You'll note, also, that the hitch in your argument is that the process of appeal isn't infallible, either.)



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 09:55 AM
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a reply to: audubon

Agreed. As I stated, "to err is human." There is no perfect solution to the problem. The bottom line is emotions whether consciously or subconsciously influence our decisions.

The only issue I take with this case is with the blatant manipulation of a current law to fit suit. I know laws are subject to interpretation but the charge of involuntary manslaughter seems like a stretch.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 12:04 PM
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How hasn't anyone brought up Dr Kavorkian (sp?) yet? Who was eventually arrested and this does feel like something similar in a sense that so much effort was made into making a suicidal man kill himself. That's where we have to question whether something turns from "free speech" to "intent" and what have you. But the example earlier in the thread of a man handing out pamphlets about Jurors rights and Nullification ON THE SIDEWALK in front of a courthouse (not talking to Jurors directly mind you) somehow being jury tampering and worthy of being considered a felony is preposterous, and he ended up getting 8 weekends in jail and 6 months probation but could've done alot more, i'm guessing there was a lenient judge in that case.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 02:41 PM
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So, I have a girlfriend who has in the past threatened to kill herself if I broke up with her. So I never followed through on my breakup attempts. But what if I had? And what if she was so distraught she killed herself? And its all in texts? I committed an action which caused her to commit suicide which she warned me of in advance. And I never stated that I didn't believe her claims. But I broke up with her anyway.

I'm now afraid that if I break up with my crazy girlfriend. I will go to jail. I guess this agonizing relationship is now forever.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: SonsOfTheMeek

No, don't think you'd have to worry.

Did you help them plan and discuss options by doing your own research on methods of suicide? Did you continually encourage and goad them into actually taking their own life? Did you push them to do so even at the last moments when they had doubts and seemed keen to not take their life? Did you potentially do this to gain attention and sympathy from friends and family?

If the answers to the above questions are no, then I'm sure you'd be fine.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 03:02 PM
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a reply to: DBCowboy

A nonsense verdict that flies in the face of reality, free speech, and relegates language to the status of sorcery. And here I thought we were a progressive, not regressive society.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 05:13 PM
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If so many of you are so "troubled" by her sentencing, surely you'll all speak out on Charles Mamsons behalf. It's just words after all, he didn't force them to kill anyone.
She deserves a harsher sentence. Have any of you actually read the messages? He wouldn't have even gotten in the truck to begin with, if not for her. He sure as hell wouldn't have gotten back in.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 05:50 PM
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originally posted by: MDpvc
If so many of you are so "troubled" by her sentencing, surely you'll all speak out on Charles Mamsons behalf. It's just words after all, he didn't force them to kill anyone.
She deserves a harsher sentence. Have any of you actually read the messages? He wouldn't have even gotten in the truck to begin with, if not for her. He sure as hell wouldn't have gotten back in.


He planned and instructed the murders to kick off his deluded "Helter Skelter". Yes murders, not suicide. The two events are incomparable.



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 08:53 PM
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I already explained this here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 6 2017 @ 09:48 PM
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Do you think encouraging someone to commit suicide in a situation like this shouldn't be a crime? She texted him during his suicide attempt telling him to get back in the truck full of toxic gas.

Maybe not manslaughter, but really - I doubt the O.P. thinks this kind of behavior is okay.



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