Special Counsel Mueller Impanels Washington Grand Jury in Russia Probe

originally posted by: Outlier13
a reply to: Liquesence

They have nothing. He hired a bunch of overpaid, high dollar mouth pieces who will turn this into a freakin' clown show. Wait and see.

Trump right? you are talking about Trump?

Mueller did this only so they could call people to testify. When you call someone to testify you are signaling you have no hard evidence of any crime.

????
Interviewing witnesses and gathering testimony is part of investigating a crime?
That is a bizarre claim..that when investigators talk to people it means they have no evidence?

FYI - The advantage of a Grand Jury being present and taking testimony is that it is under oath (penalty of prosecution)

As opposed to someone just telling the cops something in an interview, testimony in front of a grand jury, under oath, that is not truthful can result in Federal Prosecution for Perjury.

That's what got Bill Clinton in trouble...perjury about his relationship with Monica Lewinski..not what the original investigation was about ..the White water real estate deal.

Interestingly...when witnesses give testimony to a Grand Jury...it is just them, the questioner and the Grand Jury..NO LAWYERS allowed in the room.

That is why most subpoenaed witnesses negotiate for an interview with an investigator and an FBI agent present AND their lawyer in the room. It is still illegal to lie to the FBI, but since it isn't Grand Jury testimony a Lawyer to advise the witness is allowed in the room to advise answers.

Mueller is going to come out of this looking like a complete an absolute idiot.

You obviously know nothing about Robert Mueller

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Outlier13
a reply to: Liquesence

They have nothing. He hired a bunch of overpaid, high dollar mouth pieces who will turn this into a freakin' clown show. Wait and see.

Mueller did this only so they could call people to testify. When you call someone to testify you are signaling you have no hard evidence of any crime. I can't wait to see who gets called to testify. It will culminate with one of the most over hyped, non-divulging spectacles of our time. Mueller is going to come out of this looking like a complete an absolute idiot.

The other possibility is this investigation by Mueller will drag out with no indictments while the information collected on Trump / people in his administration will be used in the 2020 elections against him.

That's why people say it's the a state run opposition research operation. Just think of all the leaks that are going to happen.

a reply to: Xcathdra

And with the grand jury comes subpoenas and testimony under oath. And from there, there may be indictments issued.

This is a big flashpoint in the investigation, so it's pleasing to see Trump true believers sweeping it under the rug or moaning "Hillary" as a way to deflect. It chips away at their credibility.

I just hope no matter what happens this is put to bed and the guilty parties are brought to justice....

And that goes for both sides of the aisle.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Outlier13
a reply to: Liquesence

They have nothing. He hired a bunch of overpaid, high dollar mouth pieces who will turn this into a freakin' clown show. Wait and see.

Mueller is going to come out of this looking like a complete an absolute idiot.

You obviously know nothing about Robert Mueller

And you do?? How long have you two been friends? Or did you work together in the past?

I'm super curious about your personal insights on Mr. Mueller from your direct interaction with him.

originally posted by: GuidedKill

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: Outlier13
a reply to: Liquesence

They have nothing. He hired a bunch of overpaid, high dollar mouth pieces who will turn this into a freakin' clown show. Wait and see.

Mueller is going to come out of this looking like a complete an absolute idiot.

You obviously know nothing about Robert Mueller

And you do?? How long have you two been friends? Or did you work together in the past?

???

There is a world of space between knowing "nothing about Robert Mueller" and being a "personal friend".

Are those the only two binary options you are able to conceive of?

I either must know nothing about Robert Mueller or I must be a personal friend?

In short...the problem with your attempted snark is that it is premised on the fact you are unable to think clearly.

Robert Muellers history is well known by law enforcement. He is deeply respected by people on both sides of the aisle.

He was the longest serving FBI director since J. Edgar Hoover..

He is a Republican that was appointed by Pres. GW Bush, one week before the 9-11 attacks.

He has prosecuted numerous Terrorism, Organized Crime and Espionage Cases.
He oversaw the investigations and prosecutions of folks like Manuel Noriega and John Gotti.

He is a Viet Nam Veteran (Marines) where he was awarded The Bronz Star and the Purple Heart amongst other awards.

He is known by people across the political spectrum as a non-political "ramrod straight" shooter.

a reply to: soberbacchus

Good points. I really want to trust that Mueller is not on a witch hunt.

But, it is a known fact that Mueller was Comey's mentor and Comey his protégé. Many times friends will cover for each other, lie for each other, and throw integrity out the window to protect each other.

We will see when all is said and done.

ETA: My personal opinion is that under Obama, some in our intelligence community may have broken the rules and allowed themselves to be used by his administration to spy on political opponents. Comey may have gotten himself between a rock and a hard place and made the bad decision to instigate a leak to get his friend Mueller in there to clean it up.

a reply to: queenofswords

Mueller is on a witch hunt. And he's apparently surrounded himself with help from Clinton aides and such.

As one notable talk show host pointed out, Mueller will keep investigating until he either comes up with something or tricks Trump or a close Trump associate into obstruction of justice. Its not hard to do and Trump isn't smart enough to figure that out.

Its a beautiful thing really. The DC establishment types, Dems and Republicans alike have basically taken the position that Red State US can elect a President but they don't have to acknowledge the result and they're dedicated to nullifying the result of the election. And they may very well succeed. They are, in point of fact, moving toward a Constitutional crisis.

And in the meantime, California State Agencies are telling employees to kick ICE agents out of their workplaces.

If the DC establishment can undo Trump, invalidate the 2016 election. Along with what amounts to break-away Sanctuary States and Cities.............this thing is coming apart.

Thankfully, its coming apart slowly enough that the stock market just grinds ever higher! Woo Hoo!

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: soberbacchus

Good points. I really want to trust that Mueller is not on a witch hunt.

But, it is a known fact that Mueller was Comey's mentor and Comey his protégé. Many times friends will cover for each other, lie for each other, and throw integrity out the window to protect each other.

People who talk about Mueller describe a man who would send himself to jail if he broke the law.

He doesn't give a crap about the politics, the headlines or who he likes or doesn't like. He doesn't care about perceptions and is not intimidated by anyone. He likely doesn't take Trump's personal attacks on him personally..just business..and won't let it color or bias the facts of his investigation.

He is going to give straight answers and conclusions no matter who it pisses off or favors.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: queenofswords


The DC establishment types, Dems and Republicans alike have basically taken the position that Red State US can elect a President but they don't have to acknowledge the result and they're dedicated to nullifying the result of the election. And they may very well succeed. They are, in point of fact, moving toward a Constitutional crisis.

Red States..Blue States...Purple or Green States..can elect any President that wins the electoral college.

Trump won that.

No Presidential candidate can knowingly work with a foreign government to assist them in becoming President of The United States.

If Trump is clean...good for him..

If he or anyone on his campaign worked with Russia during the Presidential campaign then they need to be prosecuted.

"Red" "blue"..purple or green have nothing to do with that.

a reply to: soberbacchus

You want to believe that, that's your business. Clean or not, they'll nail Trump on something. There's no honesty or integrity in any of it in DC. They simply aren't going to stand for anymore of these alt-right Electoral College election victories. Not that I really care; but they do run the risk of one huge danger.

That danger is simply that if they can trick or lie Trump out of office because they refuse to accept the result of the election..............that pretty much empowers the opposition to deny the results of the next election, regardless of winning side. That's how you get to Dictatorship. And it may not be very far off.

a reply to: TonyS

Do people honestly believe that a coup against Trump will result in his voters just sitting by and not responding to it? Politicians are going down a dangerous path and I think they are seriously misunderstanding the mood of the electorate.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: TonyS

Do people honestly believe that a coup against Trump....

Bill Clinton was impeached for having extra-marital sex following an investigation about a real-estate deal.

No one said that was a coup.

Trump or Members of his campaign might have solicited and received help in getting elected from a foreign government hostile to US interests in trade for policies and actions friendly to the government.

If that is found to be true, then the responsible parties should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

a reply to: soberbacchus

I guess we should go to war with Russia over it right?

That would be an act of war.

Right?

Sanction them, if they defy it, fire a warning shot. If they dont stop, shoot to kill?

Because they committed an act of war, and this is par for the course.....

Right?

a reply to: soberbacchus

Clinton was impeached but never removed and there was verifiable evidence of criminal wrong doing. Its one of the reasons he faced legal issues when he left office, including being fined and losing his law license.

The problem is powerful groups are doing all they can to bring this President down for no other reason than he threatens the status quo.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: soberbacchus

I guess we should go to war with Russia over it right?

Why?

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: soberbacchus

You want to believe that, that's your business. Clean or not, they'll nail Trump on something. There's no honesty or integrity in any of it in DC. They simply aren't going to stand for anymore of these alt-right Electoral College election victories. Not that I really care; but they do run the risk of one huge danger.

That danger is simply that if they can trick or lie Trump out of office because they refuse to accept the result of the election..............that pretty much empowers the opposition to deny the results of the next election, regardless of winning side. That's how you get to Dictatorship. And it may not be very far off.

GLAD to see you've wised up to the inevitable outcome!!!!

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: TonyS

Do people honestly believe that a coup against Trump will result in his voters just sitting by and not responding to it? Politicians are going down a dangerous path and I think they are seriously misunderstanding the mood of the electorate.

It's always a "coup" when your team leader is being held accountable...

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: soberbacchus

Clinton was impeached but never removed and there was verifiable evidence of criminal wrong doing.

Sure...and whilst special counsel Kenneth Starr was appointed to investigate a Real-Estate transaction, Clinton was impeached for lying under oath about his extra-marital relationship with Monica Lewinski. THAT wasn't a "witch hunt"??....But investigating Russian Collusion under a tonnage of smoke suggesting the same is?

The problem is powerful groups are doing all they can to bring this President down for no other reason than he threatens the status quo.

He doesn't threaten the Status-Quo..He perfectly embodies it to embarrassing caricature proportions.

The man who derided Goldman Sachs and Moneyed Influence in DC has appointed more Goldman Sachs execs and Billionaires than any President in history. He never wanted to drain the swamp, he wanted to be chief crocodile.

He has hired family, refused to separate himself from his business profit centers that earn him money from being President. He issued an ungodly amount of "waivers" to his staff freeing them to engage in Lobbying etc. etc. It is a freakish ball of crooks and liars.

a reply to: soberbacchus

Hey mate...whatever you need to tell yourself to make you feel better be my guest. You watch too much TV.