God created Satan

Of course God created Satan, but God is not Satan, as some moron suggested a bit earlier. I suggest instead that he read the Bible and talk less about subjects of which he knows little.

From what we know, God created Lucifer as the greatest of the angels; literally, Lucifer was the second highest being, and the highest of those created. He may have been the angel in charge of Light itself.
Lucifer wanted to place his throne above God's, and somehow managed to persuade one third of all the countless angels in Heaven to follow him. God of course allowed his creation to exercise free will, but punished the angels as well.
Lucifer is since known as Satan, meaning The Enemy, and his angels as demons. He constantly fights God indirectly through deceiving mortals, though it is a losing battle and he only does so in trying to impart the most harm to God before he is finally vanquished and chained in Hell.

LoL... take your own advice if you're going to be that way ..
open your mind..
you can't tell me you've read all you can about the subject... so you yourself be quiet if thats the measure of judgement you take.

what WE know ?. ... speak for yourself ....

[edit on 26/2/05 by dnero6911]

The bible and other christen sources say that God created the devil.
The devil then rebelled against god and was sent to hell for his crime.
Early accounts of god (old testament) show him to not truly be all-powerful.
The writers of the bibles using allegories can explain gods need to do physical war against the devil, the devils very revolution against god and Gods inability to foresee the devils betrayal. So despite implications of the allegories God should have total domain over the devil and hell.
The Bible suggest that the devil was punished with imprisonment rather then death.
Though the Bible latter suggests that there is still a war going between the devil and God. The old testament show the devil to be totally defeated and incapable of rising against god. This suggests that God has already punished the devil and the devils actions against Humanity are deemed not meriting any further punishment. In other words God does not consider the temptation of man by the devil as a crime against him. Or does not consider the loss of human souls important enough to require further punishment.
There has never been a suggestion in mainstream Christianity that god needs the devil

To put it simply God can punish the devil further but decides not to.

Whenever someone brings up "The devil was banished" they are often refering to the epic poem "Paradise Lost" by John Milton. Which really has no bearing on the biblical Satan devil

Well, Iam just getting back from the movies, and i saw Constantine THis movie would answer alot of ur questions 8) it did mine 8), even though its just a movie!!!

[edit on 26-2-2005 by PanzerDiv]

Milton’s Paradise lost is based on the bible.
The bible tells of the same idea the devil is punished but not with death but what could rather be called “life in prison”.

Dbrandt, wtf are you talking about?

Are you a pastor of a church? Are you a preacher? Have you been schooled in theology? I assume no, so shut your mouth.

Like I said, I don't believe any of this crap. I was just telling you what a reputable source told me. I personally feel sorry for all the people who are brainwashed by the church. Just blindly following an old book and gullibly swallowing church rhetoric. Oh well, whatever you feel, I guess.

The story of the devil is interesting as an allegory. The true belief in a devil is very old and becoming less and less popular. The value of the devil is his repetitions of evil and punishment. The concept of hell is actual very karmic. Do evil and evil will come unto you. People in ancient times could not be made to see the consciences of there actions as we could be. So to tell them they would be punished even if they did “get away with it” in this life time seems quit logical.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Dbrandt, wtf are you talking about?

Are you a pastor of a church? Are you a preacher? Have you been schooled in theology? I assume no, so shut your mouth.

I'm on the deacon board at my church and am on the missions board. Am I a preacher with a degree form a university, no do I tell others about Christ and the Bible and what it contains, yes. Am I schooled in theology yes, anyone who is a christian and is growing in their relationship with Christ is constantly learning because we read the Bible and learn things all the time about who God really is.

This is for anyone who doesn't know about the 144,000 people in Revelation. There are not just 144,000 people that will enter heaven. There is also in the Book of Revelation a place where John saw a number of people in heaven that no one could count. People who will live forever with God. The symbolism of"a number noone could count" means this ANYONE who comes to God through Christ will live eternally. There is room for an unlimited amount of people. This is what I do study the Bible and seek God everyday to learn and grow and find out the truth about who He is.

It is a LIE that only 144,000 people make it to heaven. It is a lie because it is meant to be discouragement to those seeking to know God. The lie is this, "If only 144,000 make it why should I try because that number was met years ago, so I might as well not bother". Wrong , There are plenty of places for evidence in the Bible refuting this.

Why did Satan think he could defeat God?

Question: "Why did Satan think he could defeat God?"

Answer: Two Old Testament passages (Isaiah 14:12-15) and (Ezekiel 28:11-19) furnish a picture of Satan's original position and the reasons for his loss of that position. They tell of an exalted angelic being, one of God's creatures, who became too proud and ambitious. He determined to take over the throne of God for himself. But God removed him from his position of great dignity and honor. As a result of his original status and authority, Satan had great power and dignity. So great is his strength that Michael the archangel viewed him as a foe too powerful to oppose (Jude 9).



Satan's influence in worldly affairs is also clearly revealed (John 12:31). Satan also has high intelligence. Through it he deceived Adam and Eve and took over their rule of the world for himself (Genesis 1:26; 3:1-7; 2 Corinthians 11:3). His cleverness enables him to carry out his deceptive work almost at will. His power is subject to God's restrictions (Job 1:12; Luke 4:6; 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8). The reins of God on his activities are illustrated by Satan's request to God for permission to afflict Job (Job 1:7-12).



Satan is permitted to afflict God's people (Luke 13:16; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; Hebrews 2:14). But he is never permitted to win an ultimate victory over them (John 14:30-31; 16:33). A part of Satan's continuing ambition to replace God is his passionate yearning to have others worship him (Matthew 4:8-9; Revelation 13:4,12). Since God has frustrated this desire and put down Satan's rebellion, he has become God's exact opposite. He is "the wicked one” (Matthew 13:19,38), while God is "the Holy One” (Isaiah 1:4).



Satan's nature is malicious. His efforts in opposing God, His people, and His truth are tireless (Job 1:7; 2:2; Matthew 13:28). He is always opposed to man's best interests (1 Chronicles 21:1; Zechariah 3:1-2). Through his role in introducing sin into the human family (Genesis 3), Satan has gained the power of death-- a power which Christ has broken through His crucifixion and resurrection (Hebrews 2:14-15).



He tempted Christ directly, trying to lead Him into compromise by promising Him worldly authority and power (Luke 4:5-8). Along with his work of tempting mankind, Satan also delights in deception (1 Timothy 3:6-7; 2 Timothy 2:26). His lying nature stands in bold contrast to the truth for which Christ stands (John 8:32,44). The great falsehood which he uses so frequently is that good can be attained by doing wrong. This lie is apparent in practically all his temptations (Genesis 3:4-5). As the great deceiver, Satan is an expert at falsifying truth (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).



He brings disorder into the physical world by afflicting human beings (Job 1--2; 2 Corinthians 12:7; Hebrews 2:14). Sometimes God allows him to afflict His people for purposes of correction (1 Timothy 1:20).



Not to worry, Satan is destined to fail in his continuing rebellion against God. His final defeat is predicted in the New Testament (Luke 10:18; John 12:31; Revelation 12:9; 20:10). The death of Christ on the cross is the basis for Satan's final defeat (Hebrews 2:14-15; 1 Peter 3:18,22). This event was the grand climax to a sinless life during which Jesus triumphed over the enemy repeatedly (Matthew 4:1-11; Luke 4:1-13). The final victory will come when Jesus returns and Satan is cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:1-15).



Strength for a Christian's victory over sin has also been provided through the death of Christ. We have assurance that "the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet” (Romans 16:20). But such personal victory depends on our will to offer resistance to Satan's temptations (Ephesians 4:25-27; 1 Peter 5:8-9). To help Christians win this battle against Satan, God has provided the power of Christ's blood (Revelation 12:11), the continuing prayer of Christ in heaven for believers (Hebrews 7:25), the leading of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:16), and various weapons for spiritual warfare (Ephesians 6:13-18).



Some people have trouble admitting the existence of such an enemy as Satan. But his presence and activity are necessary to explain the problems of evil and suffering. The Bible makes it plain that Satan exists and that his main work is to oppose the rule of God in the affairs of man. Many wonder why God would allow Satan, this great embodiment of evil, to exist in His creation. No completely satisfying answer to this question has been found. Perhaps He allows it to show that evil and wrongdoing do not provide the key to the ultimate meaning of life which man so desperately desires. Or perhaps, He allows it to spiritually build a Christian’s wisdom and knowledge drawing them closer to God, and away from Satan.

Recommended Resource: The Serpent of Paradise by Erwin Lutzer.

Logic alone minus scripture wrought of imagination can tell us the answer to this question alone.

God brought man into a perfect world. God wanted man to live without fear in the world from the start. To Love and to share. To be free. Utopia and in a state of euphoria.

Ask yourself, why would god perfect a negative entity to produce and influence strife in a perfect environment?

Could you steal in the Garden of eden? Is it theft to pick from a tree full of fruit that was there for all? There was no theft. One might argue that technichally, stealing today is not stealing based on Genesis. Laws were created by men, for men, of men, and Satan seems to have a direct unifed relationship in breaking those manly laws.

Whats the worst influence that Satan could have had in the Garden of Eden. This story of Lucifer in the Heavens and the overthrow of God and the Angels was witnessed by exactly who? And what difference does it make at all.. Ask yourself. Does it really matter? Thats Gods business. Im sure the creator can handles what has been alone his matter.

We need to worry more about being selfless and ridding selfeshness and oppression on the planet, and less about the mechanics and statistics of who is going to enter heaven and who isnt. God knows no faith or race.
He knows not hate. Man has generated many of these illusions and has built instututions and governements around fears founded on lies.

Mankinds fate with God is in realizing these mistruths, elliminating the concepts institutions built on mistruths in the name of gain, and returning in our own way, on our own power, to what the one who createds original intent was. That my brothers and sisters will mark the turning point in time to the end days, which are not fire and brimstone.

Man has freewill, and God cannot change that. He could be standing right in front of you and and you might even call him the antichrist. Another fiction. He gave you free will for a reason. To improve for the better what the creator could not imagine from the inception. That was Gods intent. But it was in Greed, that free will got out of control. And the excuse of man to God is Satan, mans first lie. The Devil made me do it.

Could you have imagined the look on Gods face when his children told him that from the start? Im being candid on this matter, but I can assure as I type this, to worry not about Satan, and worry more about making the world a better place for all in your own way.

And that my Sisters and Brothers, should you think about it, will make most sense. Satan, the Devil, and all of the names of the lesser powers supposedly created by God are jumbles of letters created from some exerience that ushered their entrance into language. Nothing more.
Its all Babble. Babyl. Babil, and Bible. In other words, mouthing the words without practicing the concept, is worthless. The word of God is out there everywhere in every faith. Its not in Baptism my friends, its not in being born again, its about being Gods children. Gods Laws are simple: S I M P L E.

Naked came thee unto a world of love and bliss for which the Lord had intended. But to thee, I ask that you return the world to those days, and the Lords intentions will be known.

How would the world be if everyone was like you? Im not talking about your job. Im talking about your person. Think about it.

Peace

[edit on 27-2-2005 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 27-2-2005 by HIFIGUY]

God lets Satan exist because he loves mankind, this whole thing was created so that Man could love God with Pure, True, and Unforced Love. Why create another form of Angels who are forced to love? Give man the choice, but if there was no Satan there would be no choice. So, God allows Satan to live so that man may make the choice between God and Death! It is and has always been about Love!

ALSO, if sinning is = to death, and those who sins go to hell, than one must assume that hell = death. So, the real question is, does Satan live in hell, or just rule over hell. Does he live in Death, or rule over Death. If he is to return as the Anti-Christ does that not mean that he isn't in Death. Did God not just create him so he could execute the plan? What I am saying is I am not entirely convinced that Satan lives in Hell, but at the same time i'm not convinced he doesn't.

Lucifer turned into the evild devil because of his actions and thoughts.

I am writing this so people wont say i am spaming the board.

The link below shows you how many of the world leaders are with satan.

www.jesus-is-savior.com...&%20Witchcraft/signs_of_satan.htm

As I've stated before.... upon my research, comparing and associating "data"...

GOD created his WIFE out of himself..
They created JESUS, FIRST SON...
Then WIFE made another SON withOUT GODs permission
That son is Satan... he was created in Ignorance..
She felt ashamed and cast Satan aside and Satan never knew his father...
he assumed it was only himself(satan) and mommy(wife)..

the way I explain it is most logical when you take the time to read it... (EDIT) When you read my other posts that explain it in detail ...
IMO

[edit on 27/2/05 by dnero6911]

My theory is for every positive there has to be a negative. Simple electricity has proven this. Good can't exist without evil, God needed proof that his way for Mankind was good, Satan just confirms it.

Originally posted by truthseeka
This is a good point.

Whenever I bring this up in talks with Christians, they say that God made Satan good and Satan rebelled. Problem is, God knew this would happen (if he's omniscient), so why would he let it happen? It's funny how this idea brings one circular argument after another.

If anyone has really studied God's plan, they would stop going to church and do their thing here on Earth. Supposedly, only 144,000 people are going to heaven, and chances are it's full baby. This earth has seen billions of people, so hell should be the hottest spot in the afterlife (no pun intended)!

God had to know that Satan would rebel, but just as it is for us, He gave Satan the chance to choose.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
God is Satan. They are two sides of the same coin. Just as every man is his own God and his own Devil, so God is also.

For God to destroy Satan would be suicide. There are plenty of examples of a wicked, vengeful, wrathful God in the OT. There are for comparison plenty of instances of the loving, 'humane' God. The only answer is that they're inseperable.

I'd have to say this point merits a lot of truth. The idea of God and Satan represents transcendent myths about the nature of morality and balance in the universe, and the duality of all things.

There's no 'evil' per se, just as there's no 'good'. The universe is both chaotic and harmonic; entropy is necessity in all force, substance, essence and matter. Therefore there's no difference between 'God' and 'Satan' as concepts. An electron has both positive and negative charges, but there's no moral superiority of the postive over the negative. Morality is a human construct and attribute, so harmony at face value becomes positive and chaos is negative, despite anomalous tendencies of both to result in their opposites.

well i believe that Satan was Gods favorite Angel just as we are his favorite of all. But if you look you will notice that God tends to favor those that he knows shall betray him... interesting.

God created adam and eve. Because of the womans seduction the man fell to satans plan. Thus all humans are now in bondage and our eyes are open to all manners of flesh, pleasures , sin, and suffering. All human beings know the difference between good and evil. Its encoded in us. God knows everything but he let it all happen because there must be something great and good to come out of this. And Christ is coming