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He went to ICE to tell agents he had gotten into college Now he and his brother have been deported

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posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 09:10 AM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

Most scholarships are merit based, if they earned it on merit why should a citizen get it instead?


Do you even hear yourself??¿¿?




posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

They did have "ways" to become at least residents.

But they ignored the system.




posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 10:18 AM
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originally posted by: pavil
Do you even hear yourself??¿¿?


I do. I've looked at this from multiple angles and I don't see the problem. If my previous posts didn't make it apparent, I have no problems with open borders. But lets put that aside for the moment.

These two weren't harming anyone, they were here contributing to society. Therefore, why should we care about their legal status? They weren't detracting from you.

Most scholarships are run privately, not publicly. They would have known their legal status. Again, it's the choice of that fund, why should we care?

So often we hear the mantra that the government should just leave people alone if they're not doing any harm. That's the very embodiment of this situation.

Could these two have taken more steps towards legal status? Probably. But I also see it from their point of view. They were brought here when they were 11 years old. They grew up here. Why should they have to see something like a student visa in the country they grew up in, that they know as home?

For all practical purposes, they're Americans.
edit on 4-8-2017 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 10:26 AM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer
What a wonderful nation we have become when we applaud cruelty, denounce empathy, and reward prejudice. These men were unable to become citizens (we wouldn't either let them or give them a path to citizenship), so for everyone lambasting them for having 'wasted' 8 years, there was no time wasted, we simply wouldn't let them become citizens.

Some of the posters above me have already touched upon the fact that deporting them effectively puts them right in the hands of transnational gangs (as this is their primary method of recruitment - disaffected young men abused by an unfair system).

I especially like how so many conservative minded folks here would rather put their relatively underperforming child in place of these young men solely because they were born here and 'deserve' it more. That seems like the opposite of a merit based system. That seems like the opposite of 'path to citizenship. That seems like the opposite of what Trump says when he remarks we want 'intelligent highly skilled immigrants'.


Crueltly?

Again it just El salvador not Syria or Sudan.

They will be fine.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 10:31 AM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: pavil
Do you even hear yourself??¿¿?


I do. I've looked at this from multiple angles and I don't see the problem. If my previous posts didn't make it apparent, I have no problems with open borders. But lets put that aside for the moment.

These two weren't harming anyone, they were here contributing to society. Therefore, why should we care about their legal status? They weren't detracting from you.

Most scholarships are run privately, not publicly. They would have known their legal status. Again, it's the choice of that fund, why should we care?

So often we hear the mantra that the government should just leave people alone if they're not doing any harm. That's the very embodiment of this situation.

Could these two have taken more steps towards legal status? Probably. But I also see it from their point of view. They were brought here when they were 11 years old. They grew up here. Why should they have to see something like a student visa in the country they grew up in, that they know as home?

For all practical purposes, they're Americans.


Yes but it encourages other illegal immigrants, obes that may not be harmless.

Zero tolarance should mean zero tolarance.

If you immigrate you do it legally!

I plan to immigrate to new zealand and i am filling out all the legal paperwork.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 12:52 PM
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originally posted by: InsaneIthorian
Yes but it encourages other illegal immigrants, obes that may not be harmless.

Zero tolarance should mean zero tolarance.


Then lets handle them on a case by case basis. Zero tolerance is not a good policy. Zero tolerance means zero thought, zero nuance, and zero ongoing policy evaluation. How well has zero tolerance worked in other aspects of society? Zero tolerance of guns is what brought us expelling 1st graders from school for chewing crackers into gun shapes. Zero tolerance is what turns someone guilty of public urination into a sex offender for life. Zero tolerance is what pushes three strikes policies where misdemeanor crimes turn into life sentences.

I realize it's not as easy as just saying someone is illegal and kicking them out, but I suppose I'm a bit more pragmatic than that. Even if someone hasn't done everything 100% by the book, I look at if they're a net positive or a net negative to the country, state, or community. If they're a positive, then we only harm ourselves by expelling them. From what I've read, these two people were a net positive.

If you immigrate you do it legally!

I plan to immigrate to new zealand and i am filling out all the legal paperwork.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 03:04 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: pavil
Do you even hear yourself??¿¿?



For all practical purposes, they're Americans.


Except that they aren't. They can't vote, they can't collect social security, can't have a job, ect....minor things, I know. Their family had ample time to get things done properly even got a reprieve, still they didn't follow the procedures. I wonder why?



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 03:11 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Wayfarer

They did have "ways" to become at least residents.

But they ignored the system.



You mean ways that were denied upon application.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: InsaneIthorian
Crueltly?

Again it just El salvador not Syria or Sudan.

They will be fine.


When's your next vacation to El Salvador?

www.insightcrime.org...



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 03:49 PM
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originally posted by: pavil
Except that they aren't. They can't vote, they can't collect social security, can't have a job, ect....minor things, I know. Their family had ample time to get things done properly even got a reprieve, still they didn't follow the procedures. I wonder why?


I don't know why, but I can take some guesses. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter. They're here and they're doing the things we would like all our residents to be doing. That should be a good enough reason for them to stay.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 05:10 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan


I don't know why, but I can take some guesses. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter. They're here and they're doing the things we would like all our residents to be doing. That should be a good enough reason for them to stay.


Nope, they aren't here anymore. The rest of their family seemed to follow the rules, they weren't deported. There was a similar case here in Michigan of one brother of a whole family not applying or getting his green card. There is probably more to the story as their was in the Michigan case. Follow the rules.....it's pretty simple. Millions of people have done so.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 05:19 PM
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a reply to: TruMcCarthy

Sports scholarships are the responsibility of the various athletic depts, I think. If so, they're paid for by people attending games...

'course, I could be wrong...



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 05:42 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

You should've applied for a government job a few years ago.




posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 05:45 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Aazadan

You should've applied for a government job a few years ago.



I did actually, failed the interview.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 09:40 PM
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a reply to: Aazadan

Could these two have taken more steps towards legal status? Probably. But I also see it from their point of view. They were brought here when they were 11 years old. They grew up here. Why should they have to see something like a student visa in the country they grew up in, that they know as home? For all practical purposes, they're Americans.

That is not how the law works. Piratical or commonsense is not allowed to be considered. The law is the law.

I know because I was born in the US, and lived my entire life here. I had a drivers license that I held in that State for over 30 years. When they changed the ID rules for licensing I had to show my birth certificate. Since my name on my birth certificate was different from the name I have used for near 50 years, through marriage, I had to show my marriage license which was destroyed years ago and I never bother to get another one, because I didn't need it.

Commonsense and the practical thing to do was to go off the information they have had on file and has been using for me for the last 30+ years, but they couldn't because the law stated otherwise. So I had to go through the time, expense and inconvenience of no license until I could present the documents requested.

I didn't like it but the law is the law. They don't make exceptions because you may feel that is practical to do so.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 09:55 PM
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originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
So I had to go through the time, expense and inconvenience of no license until I could present the documents requested.


Are you equating a trifling inconvenience (procuring documents which are on file and only need be requested/paid for) with an actively hostile immigration policy? I think the more accurate equivalent would have been if you had failed to procure your documents upon first arrival at the DMV/BMV that a plainclothes ICE agent arrests you and deports you before you have the opportunity to collect some representative documentation. Zero Tolerance remember, the law is the law.



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 09:57 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: pavil
Do you even hear yourself??¿¿?


I do. I've looked at this from multiple angles and I don't see the problem. If my previous posts didn't make it apparent, I have no problems with open borders. But lets put that aside for the moment.

These two weren't harming anyone, they were here contributing to society. Therefore, why should we care about their legal status? They weren't detracting from you.

Most scholarships are run privately, not publicly. They would have known their legal status. Again, it's the choice of that fund, why should we care?

So often we hear the mantra that the government should just leave people alone if they're not doing any harm. That's the very embodiment of this situation.

Could these two have taken more steps towards legal status? Probably. But I also see it from their point of view. They were brought here when they were 11 years old. They grew up here. Why should they have to see something like a student visa in the country they grew up in, that they know as home?

For all practical purposes, they're Americans.


If they were americans they would be deported. Either they are or they arent coming here illegally doesn't give you special privileges. My wife is from Germany we had to spend money and a lot of time to get her citizenship. She is now an amarican why should thesee two not have to go through what we did??



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 10:05 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
... why should thesee two not have to go through what we did??


Because for the same reason its unfair to ask you to compete in a swimming match with Michael Phelps. Your money/situation/luck was not equitable with the people you are comparing. A compassionate system is adaptable and follows the spirit of the law, rather than creating a single system biased at either end.

Imagine getting citizenship for your wife if you were unemployed and broke (with no job skills suitable for anything other than minimum wage manual labor), and she was also broke working a minimum wage job just to live day to day. Do you imagine it would have been as easy?



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 10:12 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
If they were americans they would be deported. Either they are or they arent coming here illegally doesn't give you special privileges. My wife is from Germany we had to spend money and a lot of time to get her citizenship. She is now an amarican why should thesee two not have to go through what we did??


Your argument is that you did it, so they should too?

What if the policy was wrong when it happened to your wife, should we continue a bad policy in the name of making everyone suffer equally?



posted on Aug, 4 2017 @ 10:32 PM
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a reply to: Wayfarer
We can't not enforce laws because you feel they are unfair. There are steps that you can take to try to change laws that one feels are unfair.

Incarceration or deportation is not the punishment for the breaking of all laws. I was not using my example as a comparison but as an explanation, that commonsense or practically is not a factor in the enforcement of law.



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