WH clarified Statue of Liberty Poem - Not actually part of American Values

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Wayfarer

I don't see the problem with having the same immigration policy as Australia.

Aren't people always saying we should be more like them anyway?

So then we should have universal health care too right?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Wayfarer

I don't see the problem with having the same immigration policy as Australia.

Aren't people always saying we should be more like them anyway?

So then we should have universal health care too right?

Oh, we'll get that regardless, thanks to the spineless cowards in congress.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Wayfarer

I don't see the problem with having the same immigration policy as Australia.

Aren't people always saying we should be more like them anyway?

So then we should have universal health care too right?

Oh, we'll get that regardless, thanks to the spineless cowards in congress.

That didn't answer the question. If you think that we should emulate Australia then you think we should emulate their health care too right? You aren't just name dropping Australia because Trump is happening to do something that that country has already implemented but don't care about the rest of their policies are you? I mean that is the kind of silliness that UKTruth is trying to accuse liberals of doing in reverse.

a reply to: Christosterone

I'd prefer more Von Brauns and less Tsarnaevs.

So you have no problem with war criminals being allowed to come live in America as long as they have a skill that can be exploited?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
literally EVERY immigration wave that has ever occurred throughout human history. What happens is that the immigrants don't mesh fluidly with the new culture because they don't fully know the new culture, BUT their children end up growing up in the new culture and have a much easier time meshing with the culture. The children's children become so ingrained into the culture that they may even contribute to newer anti-immigrant waves.

Do we need an immigration wave ever again? Go to a border town where they protest with the Mexican flag for like the last 40 years, how long do you want to wait lol...they do not want to be an American... Look at my other post about Germany's immigration wave...times have changed to the value of these waves to the country that allows them to happen.

Immigration is good, work visas are very good too, but both need control and focus on what truly is a benefit to us or not.

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: UKTruth

No, your house and land is not yours.

Right now it is.

It will be there after you have left.

...after which I honestly dont care what anyone does to it.

You have no right to it.

I do right now.

But even if I accept your property rights, I'll just camp out on your land then and you don't need to feed me.. deal?

Sure. I've got 6 acres in the sticks. I also have quite a diverse array of firearms that I tend to fire on my own land legally, I strongly advise that you DONT camp downrange.

There you go.
Your message is - "yeah come on in to the country, it belongs to everyone in the world, but set foot on my land and i'll likely kill you."

a reply to: Xtrozero

Yes we need immigration. Hell we need immigration right now. Especially if Trump wants to succeed in getting to that fantasy land number of 5% gdp growth.
The Economy Needs Immigrants
Please deny some ignorance and read that article.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: UKTruth

No, your house and land is not yours.

Right now it is.

It will be there after you have left.

...after which I honestly dont care what anyone does to it.

You have no right to it.

I do right now.

But even if I accept your property rights, I'll just camp out on your land then and you don't need to feed me.. deal?

Sure. I've got 6 acres in the sticks. I also have quite a diverse array of firearms that I tend to fire on my own land legally, I strongly advise that you DONT camp downrange.

There you go.
Your message is - "yeah come on in to the country, it belongs to everyone in the world, but set foot on my land and i'll likely kill you."

Providing advice on where NOT to be if they want to "camp" on my land is tantamount in your mind to suggesting if they do they will die?

No wonder you're such an avid Donald Trump sycophant, you share a sense of logic.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Please deny some ignorance and read that article.

I said "Immigration is good, work visas are very good too, but both need control and focus on what truly is a benefit to us or not." Let me add that human trafficking is bad i.e. illegals.

I don't see the article talking about the decline of jobs due to machines...Also we have a good number of young today complaining "there is no jobs", wasn't that the whole narrative of the 99%ers and other groups? Worried about baby boomers retiring is what the story is all about....I'm not sure there will be enough jobs available even with their exit of the workforce. They also take about numbers 40 years from now...2050..what will be the jobs then lol...

Immigrants make up 17 percent of the U.S. workforce, but account for more than one-third of workers with PhDs in the STEM fields of science, technology, engineering and math. Of the immigrants who were admitted to the United States in 2011-15, 48 percent were college graduates, compared to 31 percent of U.S.-born adults.

Great point in the article about the abuse of H-1B visa to bring in talent at pennies on the dollar...win win for corps, lose lose for Americans looking for viable careers.

originally posted by: growler
a reply to: SaturnFX

Hard to say that immigrants wanting to install sharia law and all that other malarky that will create subjegation and less liberty is in line with what the poem says.

and that would be the point where you would provide examples, but you cant because its not happening.

back on topic as this guy's reply shows, the exaggerated fear levels and just plain xenophobia from some has destroyed the meaning.
'all white people allowed except jews and muslims, ok we're allowing jews in today begrudgingly.'

Xenophobia...sure bro
I would gladly welcome in and house the entire island of Japan..they share our values
I would be on board of the US simply buying mexico and establishing law..they share our values
I would etc... korea, most of south america, most of asia, spain, Portugal, etc

I don't want many middle eastern muslims, because they do not share our culture, they do not recognize state authority over religion.
That, friend, is not xenophobia, that is a global understanding. My passport looks like it went to war against global stamps. I imagine you haven't left the continental US (if you're a yank). Your view is nieve, your thought process is shallow and without merit. All you can do is simply claw at your ears to make the nuanced discussion go away and simply paint it into some catchy progressive claptrap.

btw, here is a video you won't watch

originally posted by: Cypress
Its always been this way. First generations bring their customs and languages. Settle down in communities of similar ethnic background and future generations assimilate and add to american culture. The concept of being american is not a nationalistic ideal.

Yes, and this is what makes the country rich, what doesn't however is if the custom and culture they bring is to specifically reject western culture and instead try and impose their culture as the dominant culture wherever they go. check the post above this one for my other reply.

I have no issue with arabs..and have no issue with the regular joe muslim who is just quietly going about his day. What I don't want (nor does Joe) is a mass immigration of that specific culture due to no time to integrate into western society..no time to adopt western sentiment, no time to assimilate...they instead are (wherever they go) importing full stock their country of origins drama.

As an agnostic-atheist, I don't want a holy invasion...took us long enough to tame christianity down from a lion to a kitten..we don't need another dark ages.

I don't care what type of culture immigrants bring with them to the US. I wouldn't tell them to change their culture.

Laws, on the other hand, they better damn well follow. US laws, not their cultural laws. Well, they can follow even those as long as they do not conflict with US law. Keep with that and we will be just fine.


As far as the poem I would say it once was something we were proud to claim, but now not so much.

As far as the English requirement I think it is stupid. I have been to some deep south areas and hillbilly areas where they claim to speak english, but you can't understand a damn word they say.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
I don't care what type of culture immigrants bring with them to the US. I wouldn't tell them to change their culture.

Laws, on the other hand, they better damn well follow. US laws, not their cultural laws. Well, they can follow even those as long as they do not conflict with US law. Keep with that and we will be just fine.


As far as the poem I would say it once was something we were proud to claim, but now not so much.

As far as the English requirement I think it is stupid. I have been to some deep south areas and hillbilly areas where they claim to speak english, but you can't understand a damn word they say.

How is someone who can't speak English going to find a job?? And if they do it will be in an area where only immigrants are which can lead to things like MS13. As gangs form to take advantage of these prisoners who are restricted on where they can live.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
The poem was not merely "added as an afterthought" ... it was a part of the effort to create the site. What rot!

An effort 17 years in the making. Sheesh.

"Trespass into the jurisdiction of a sovereign nation?" Yes, you sound exactly like the snide nativists who have always opposed immigration and opportunity ... which probably benefited your own ancestors.

My ancestors are what people are calling the 'indigenous americans', just FYI.

Yeah, you're a direct philosophical descendant of the spirit of the Alien and Sedition Acts ... except that you might remember, we as a nation chose to repeal those, and the concept, in the Election of Thomas Jefferson in 1800. Your ideologies reared up again with the founding of "The American Party" in the mid-1800s trying to keep out Catholics, and those efforts expanded over the next 50 years to Germans, Jews, Italians, Poles, Chinese and others (like the revival of the Ku Klux Klan).

The arguments have always been the same. "They're going to take our jobs." "They're going to bring crime."

Just remember "THEY" are US now (and will be again.)

No, I'm a guy who is the direct result of the previous societies that didn't enforce any type of immigration policy. I'd like the current society to learn from the past.

We needed all those immigrants to come to the New World to subdue the Native Americans and do all the hard labor needed to open up the wilderness to exploitation by the robber barons and the government. Their diseases did a lot to weaken the natives, then the mass influx of settlers were needed to overwhelm them with superior numbers. It was only a matter of time after gaining access to the resources that we became strong enough to nearly wipe them out all together.

The settlers created the territories that became the country, they were the useful idiots of that time. After that the barons and the government subdued the settlers that are today's common citizen. Now they need to reduce our numbers, put us on the reservations and keep us from ever gaining any power to fight back. We face the same end that the Native Americans have experienced and yet many common people still look down on the Indians not realizing that we are all in the same canoe floating up Sheetz Creek without a paddle.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Xtrozero

Yes we need immigration. Hell we need immigration right now. Especially if Trump wants to succeed in getting to that fantasy land number of 5% gdp growth.
The Economy Needs Immigrants
Please deny some ignorance and read that article.

So we need more of this?

The welfare benefit data from the Los Angeles County Department of Public Social Services shows:

More than 58,000 families received a total of $602 million in benefits in 2015.
More than 64,000 families received a total of $675 million in 2016.
During the first five months of 2017, more than 60,000 families received a total of $181 million.
Welfare and food stamp costs for the county’s entire population were $3.1 billion in 2015, $2.9 billion in 2016 and $1.5 billion so far in 2017.
Roughly a quarter of California’s 4 million illegal immigrants reside in Los Angeles County.

He said the costs of education, police and fire, medical, and subsidized housing can total $24,000 per year in government spending per family, much more than would be paid in taxes.

“They get $3 in benefits for every $1 they spend,” Rector said.

Those numbers are staggering and nowhere close to the actual cost to US citizens. I have no idea how people are OK with this and even want more of it for christ sakes.

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: UKTruth

No, your house and land is not yours.

Right now it is.

It will be there after you have left.

...after which I honestly dont care what anyone does to it.

You have no right to it.

I do right now.

But even if I accept your property rights, I'll just camp out on your land then and you don't need to feed me.. deal?

Sure. I've got 6 acres in the sticks. I also have quite a diverse array of firearms that I tend to fire on my own land legally, I strongly advise that you DONT camp downrange.

There you go.
Your message is - "yeah come on in to the country, it belongs to everyone in the world, but set foot on my land and i'll likely kill you."

Providing advice on where NOT to be if they want to "camp" on my land is tantamount in your mind to suggesting if they do they will die?

No wonder you're such an avid Donald Trump sycophant, you share a sense of logic.

Why would your advice be necessary - it's not your land... you belong to the land remember? That is what you posited based on your research into Mick Dundee.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
I don't see the article talking about the decline of jobs due to machines...Also we have a good number of young today complaining "there is no jobs", wasn't that the whole narrative of the 99%ers and other groups? Worried about baby boomers retiring is what the story is all about....I'm not sure there will be enough jobs available even with their exit of the workforce. They also take about numbers 40 years from now...2050..what will be the jobs then lol...

That was 7 - 9 years ago. Times have changed since then. Also, the Baby Boomers aren't so much holding up new jobs from Millennials. They are preventing any advancement in the company since they won't retire. When they retire there will be a surplus of jobs because there are less Gen Xers and Millennials to fill those spots. Technology may eliminate some of them but not all of them. This is why we need immigrants. To fill the gap the Baby Boomer retirees will create, AND if Trump wants his magical 5% growth rate we'll need even more of them.

By the way, technology isn't going to replace all the jobs. As technology improves it creates new jobs servicing and using the new technology.

One more thing. I'm going to repost this link. Immigrants Are Twice as Likely to Start a Business. Let's Let Them.
Logically this means that the more immigrants we have the more jobs available for everyone. Including native citizens. I happen to work for a company owned by immigrants. I'm native born.

Great point in the article about the abuse of H-1B visa to bring in talent at pennies on the dollar...win win for corps, lose lose for Americans looking for viable careers.

How so? If there is a deficit in skilled workers for the position then it makes sense to bring in foreign workers. That is simple economics. Plus the foreign workers contribute to our economy and pay our taxes. So they are helping our country prosper too, even if they aren't native citizens.

a reply to: mtnshredder

This discussion is about legal immigration. Why are you bringing up illegal immigration? Are you trying to deflect or did you just not honestly understand the scope of the discussion?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: mtnshredder

This discussion is about legal immigration. Why are you bringing up illegal immigration? Are you trying to deflect or did you just not honestly understand the scope of the discussion?

Can't speak for mnt but it appears there are some federal & state governments/politicians who seem to want to treat the illegal aliens as if they are legal immigrants and somehow validate their trespassing (edit: and squatting).