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WH clarified Statue of Liberty Poem - Not actually part of American Values

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posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 11:58 AM
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originally posted by: UKTruth
just a land mass and resources that everyone in the world should be entitled to.


Personally, I think Mick Dundee said it best when he said:



Well, you see, Aborigines don't own the land.They belong to it. It's like their mother. See those rocks? Been standing there for 600 million years. Still be there when you and I are gone. So arguing over who owns them is like two fleas arguing over who owns the dog they live on.




posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:01 PM
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originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: UKTruth
just a land mass and resources that everyone in the world should be entitled to.


Personally, I think Mick Dundee said it best when he said:



Well, you see, Aborigines don't own the land.They belong to it. It's like their mother. See those rocks? Been standing there for 600 million years. Still be there when you and I are gone. So arguing over who owns them is like two fleas arguing over who owns the dog they live on.


Mick Dundee was a character in a movie.

It does once again highlight the underlying issue though. Some Americans don't see themselves as American at all and don't even think that the USA has a right to exist. From that point of view I can understand why they want open borders and no national prosperity.

The problem is that the thinking is a fake ideology, because no one who thinks that way would never agree to bring it to it's conclusion.
edit on 3/8/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:06 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

Of course, but he still said it best.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:23 PM
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originally posted by: alphabetaone
a reply to: UKTruth

Of course, but he still said it best.



See that house you live in - it will be standing long after you have gone.
I'd like a room please. I don't have anything to offer, but if you could feed me and make sure I am comfortable that would be great... oh and i can't pay for anything, you'll need to increase your household budget to accommodate me.

If it helps any, if you have some land, i'll set up camp on it. After all you don't own your land. I might bring some friends too.

We might make some changes - like cut down a few trees (we don't like those) - you know just reshape a few things to make us feel more at home, to what we're used to.

edit on 3/8/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
there are tons of Americans who wouldn't be able to pass that merit system but nothing is done about their ignorance.


Why would they need to, they're the REAL Americans

I'm just remarking on the double standard of requiring immigrants to have such comprehensive civics education but Americans born in this country could have the intelligence of a crayon and make important political decisions just because they are a citizen. I'm not sure what's to be done about it, but we shouldn't ignore this double standard.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:30 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
there are tons of Americans who wouldn't be able to pass that merit system but nothing is done about their ignorance.


Why would they need to, they're the REAL Americans


That comment you replied to is actually an important one because it reveals the mind set. There is no concept of nationality or nation with some people. i.e. no USA at all, just a land mass and resources that everyone in the world should be entitled to. It's why the debates about immigration policy or foreign policy can be so strange.

I'm sorry. You are a Brit. You have no idea what is and isn't a real American in the first place, so your input here is unnecessary.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth




There is no concept of nationality or nation with some people. i.e. no USA at all, just a land mass and resources that everyone in the world should be entitled to.


Indeed. I call this type of thinking, the "John Lennon's Imagine" syndrome:

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace...


It sounds "right", it sounds "lovely", it sounds "idyllic"....but it's actually farfetched and impossible at this point in time considering the kinds of people that inhabit the world right now.

Would you really want that kind of world anyway? Think about it.

If every person on the planet had the same exact undifferentiated ideology regarding government, religion, social structure, philosophical views, economic viewpoints, etc. we could all just crowd into that "tower of babel" and exist as One.

I'm not sure I would want that One World Order.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: queenofswords

I've heard this before. Platitudes are fine to take with a grain of salt, but at the same time dismissing them as outright fallacy is exactly the same kind of 'confirmation bias' type thinking that you're claiming those that follow them believe.

'The world is a dump, ergo I won't do anything to fix it or strive to reach an idyllic goal because it can't recover from its current state ' is a self defeating mindset and only serves to further reinforce one's own (often inaccurate) beliefs.

Wouldn't it be better to strive for the impossible and achieve it, rather than wallow in misery or dysfunction because it's 'Realistic' and easy to achieve? Methinks a lot of this kind of resistance is based on human's ingrained dislike of major paradigm shifts.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:42 PM
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originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: UKTruth




There is no concept of nationality or nation with some people. i.e. no USA at all, just a land mass and resources that everyone in the world should be entitled to.


Indeed. I call this type of thinking, the "John Lennon's Imagine" syndrome:

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace...


It sounds "right", it sounds "lovely", it sounds "idyllic"....but it's actually farfetched and impossible at this point in time considering the kinds of people that inhabit the world right now.

Would you really want that kind of world anyway? Think about it.

If every person on the planet had the same exact undifferentiated ideology regarding government, religion, social structure, philosophical views, economic viewpoints, etc. we could all just crowd into that "tower of babel" and exist as One.

I'm not sure I would want that One World Order.



What's more the same people pushing such thinking don't actually want it. It's just rhetoric for "feelz" and moral superiority.

If we're all just on the planet and have no borders or nations or any claim to resources, I could just pop over the US and start farming some nice fertile land. After all it belongs to no one. Can you imagine one of these ideologues if some stranger just turned up and started using their land and resources

Their ideology would soon be out the window - it's all sounds nice as long as someone else pays... it was ever thus with the left.
edit on 3/8/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:44 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
there are tons of Americans who wouldn't be able to pass that merit system but nothing is done about their ignorance.


Why would they need to, they're the REAL Americans


That comment you replied to is actually an important one because it reveals the mind set. There is no concept of nationality or nation with some people. i.e. no USA at all, just a land mass and resources that everyone in the world should be entitled to. It's why the debates about immigration policy or foreign policy can be so strange.

I'm sorry. You are a Brit. You have no idea what is and isn't a real American in the first place, so your input here is unnecessary.


No need to be sorry - you don't believe you have a country so obviously you can't really believe you are American.
Pretty simple really.
edit on 3/8/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:45 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

See that house you live in - it will be standing long after you have gone.
I'd like a room please. I don't have anything to offer, but if you could feed me and make sure I am comfortable that would be great... oh and i can't pay for anything, you'll need to increase your household budget to accommodate me.

This is not even a reasonable argument though. You're asking me to personally support you using my private funds and in my private establishment. The immigration policy right now and years gone by, is making no such assurances...simply that they have the right to make it on their own.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

This is completely bs, because States exist. States have borders but no border security and property rights are still a thing within them. If border security around the world was relaxed where we stopped fretting over who was coming and going between countries doesn't magically mean that countries and property rights would vanish too. That is what is called a Slippery Slope Fallacy.
edit on 3-8-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth
Can you imagine one of these ideologues if some stranger just turned up and started using their land and resources


...at which point though, the cops would be called and they would be promptly arrested. Problem solved.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
there are tons of Americans who wouldn't be able to pass that merit system but nothing is done about their ignorance.


Why would they need to, they're the REAL Americans


That comment you replied to is actually an important one because it reveals the mind set. There is no concept of nationality or nation with some people. i.e. no USA at all, just a land mass and resources that everyone in the world should be entitled to. It's why the debates about immigration policy or foreign policy can be so strange.

I'm sorry. You are a Brit. You have no idea what is and isn't a real American in the first place, so your input here is unnecessary.


No need to be sorry - you don't believe you have a country so obviously you can't really believe you are American.
Pretty simple really.

By extension of what I previously said, you don't know me either. All you see is a stereotype behind a computer screen. Again your input isn't necessary.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: UKTruth

See that house you live in - it will be standing long after you have gone.
I'd like a room please. I don't have anything to offer, but if you could feed me and make sure I am comfortable that would be great... oh and i can't pay for anything, you'll need to increase your household budget to accommodate me.

This is not even a reasonable argument though. You're asking me to personally support you using my private funds and in my private establishment. The immigration policy right now and years gone by, is making no such assurances...simply that they have the right to make it on their own.



No, your house and land is not yours. It will be there after you have left.
You have no right to it.

But even if I accept your property rights, I'll just camp out on your land then and you don't need to feed me.. deal?



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:49 PM
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a reply to: Wayfarer

I don't see the problem with having the same immigration policy as Australia.

Aren't people always saying we should be more like them anyway?



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:50 PM
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a reply to: UKTruth

I think you keep coming back to this type of scenario because either that's all you can see about it or because it reinforces your argument. Sure, if everyone in the world was a marauder hell bent on taking to the exclusion of anything else, then yes, the world would be highly unstable. This is not how the world is though, so arguing against this sake is not taking into account that the overwhelming majority of people don't want to usurp, they just want to live, have family's, the same basic stuff just about everyone wants (see Maslow).

Those that really want the idyllic world understand that a shift in balance means in our current state that those of us 'at the top of the pile' will slide down a bit as it gets flattened out. The alternative is we fight tooth and nail to hold our piece of the pie, killing or blocking those others who would also want it, and further plunging the world into an increasingly violent cycle that we find ourselves in and which you argue is just the way the world is and requires us to maintain this hard-line approach.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:51 PM
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originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: UKTruth
Can you imagine one of these ideologues if some stranger just turned up and started using their land and resources


...at which point though, the cops would be called and they would be promptly arrested. Problem solved.


Correct, because land is owned and therefore the owners can dictate the terms upon which it is used or occupied...

Perhaps Mick Dundee was not such a great mind after all.


edit on 3/8/2017 by UKTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:53 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Wayfarer

I don't see the problem with having the same immigration policy as Australia.

Aren't people always saying we should be more like them anyway?



They do, until Trump agrees with them on a point, then it's all of a sudden wrong.



posted on Aug, 3 2017 @ 12:57 PM
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originally posted by: UKTruth

No, your house and land is not yours.

Right now it is.


It will be there after you have left.

...after which I honestly dont care what anyone does to it.


You have no right to it.


I do right now.


But even if I accept your property rights, I'll just camp out on your land then and you don't need to feed me.. deal?

Sure. I've got 6 acres in the sticks. I also have quite a diverse array of firearms that I tend to fire on my own land legally, I strongly advise that you DONT camp downrange.



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