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The Deep State is Real

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posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 03:33 AM
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originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: ChaoticOrder
Great post and well said.

Out of all places, I would've thought that this would be common knowledge among the ATS crowd.

There's no coincidence that those who think the deep state is some Boogeyman, also think that indoctrination and social engineering is some Boogeyman, also think occultism and satanism is some Boogeyman, also think that pedo rings among the elite are some Boogeyman, and also think that most "agendas" on society are all Boogeyman. Interesting that most of them are also anti-Trumpers, believe in the demon Trump rhetoric, believe in Russian collusion, and believe that there is absolutely no agenda against Trump.






I think you may have found some "new" disorder that needs a label toot suit




posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 03:37 AM
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a reply to: TheTory

Great video, steyn is great.



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 04:14 AM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14


But those aren't traditionally "left wing." Tell me how endless wars and militarism for empire are left wing. Again, most scholars consider those right wing. Same with hyper nationalism. Same with police states. Excepting a few right wingers claiming otherwise in the states, fascism is associated with far right wing. Mussolini and Hitler both proclaimed left wing socialism or communism to be their enemy, and persecuted associated people.

Warmongering is not a left or right thing, it's a nut job thing. Nationalism is certainly not just a right wing thing, look at any communist nation such as China or NK and you'll see a level of nationalism that far exceeds most other nations on Earth... there is a reason Hitler called it socialist nationalism, he implemented many socialist policies in order to subdue the population he was trying to control.

I actually created a thread on this topic not too long ago: WWII Survivor Warns of Socialism and Gun Control. In that thread I present a lecture from a women who lived through the Hitler regime and she describes how nationalism and socialism often go hand in hand and how socialist policies are used to lure in voters and then strip everything they have. Here's an excerpt from a post I made in that thread:


originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: MOMof3

Politicians are experts at telling people what they want to hear, promising everyone a bunch of free stuff is an easy way to draw people in while encouraging a group mentality, and I see it as a very common tactic used by modern day politicians, which is what this women is trying to warn of.

Also the other underlying point I'm trying to make here is that extreme forms of socialism, such as communist nations which try to enforce wealth equality, nearly always devolve into dictatorships. A socialist government slowly but continuously takes control over the lives of people until they live in a nanny state with no liberty at all.


Of course there is some validity to your point about the deep state traditionally operating more from the right wing, such as during the Bush era. When Obama came in their tactics changed slightly but ultimately the deep state doesn't care about left and right, it doesn't care who the president is, they will act as puppet masters and use what ever tactics necessary to achieve their goals. And I think they've come to understand just how useful liberal ideologies are to reaching their goals, it gives them the power to enforce never ending taxes which fund their never ending wars and pay for their ever increasing salaries. A nanny state is in their best interest if they want a docile easily controlled population.
edit on 2/8/2017 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 06:48 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder



Not singling you out introvert, I've seen many people make this argument recently and I feel it deserves some rebuttal.


If this is what needed to be done to talk about this particular issue, I'm fine with it and will do my best to defend my position.

First, it must be stated that I was referring to the term "deep state" being used in regards to Trump. Not just during his presidency, but also during the campaign. The Right Wing mainstream media talked quite a bit about the deep state in order to create an air of conspiracy around Trump. Whether it be to justify a potential loss to Hillary for the presidency, or to cast doubt on the reporting on Trump's actions as president or developments surrounding the investigations.

Hannity talked about it quite a bit. So did Limbaugh and Mark Levin. I could also link to many, many Right Wing blogs and websites that continue this "deep state" narrative.

In this sense, the "deep state" does not exist. It is nothing more than a propaganda narrative, which was picked-up and parroted by many people on this website, in order to create doubt in those that would criticize Trump, his supporters and cast doubt on the media reporting on Trump's actions/investigation.

After reading your OP, it appears to me that the "deep state" you are talking about is the one I described and you confirm what I posted. You think there are forces at work trying to discredit Trump and take him down. While I believe there may be a few out there with that intent, I see no evidence to suggest an organized effort by those you describe in the OP.

As far as there being a "deep state" in a general sense, I do not think one exists.

You have many different groups of people in the US, be it political organizations, the media, etc, that push various agendas from various angles and for a variety of purposes. There is not one cohesive effort to push any one specific agenda on any scale that would indicate there is a "deep state" at play in the US. Those you have listed in the OP, such as the education system, Hollywood, the media, social media and such are simply boogeymen and convenient scapegoats for the Right Wing.

Those listed in the OP are literally blamed for any and all perceived wrongs the Right Wing can find to complain about. But are they all working together to push for specific goals that we could reasonably conclude make-up the "deep state"?

No. We should not confuse special interests with a "deep state". If you want to see a real deep state, look to Turkey.

I'd also like to say that, yes, we are on a conspiracy site and I love a good conspiracy, but that does not mean we cannot approach issues logically or that we can use that in order to give weight to unfounded conspiracies. To say that any conspiracy theorist worth their salt should "have some basic understanding that there are forces who work from the shadows to push world events in a certain direction" is wrong. What you are saying is that to be a good conspiracy theorist we have to believe what you believe.

Perhaps that's why I'm not a good conspiracy theorist. I like to think for myself.

edit on 2-8-2017 by introvert because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 07:38 AM
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its one thing to "identify" who or what the deep state is....quite another thing to show it working in the real world with real world examples that cannot be explained without appealing to the existence of the deep state.


i havent read every post in this OP but i would be willing to be there are not that many examples of the deep state doing things that cannot be explained with more ordinary causes and thats part of the problem.

To be able to effectively work against the influences of such a group we would need chapter and verse of all their most important activities, PROVEN links to them, a good evidence based outcome of their actions and then some kind of conclusion that ultimately what these people are doing is evil.



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 07:52 AM
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Attention!

There will be a Deep State meeting tonight at 9:00 p.m. CST, in the ATS cafeteria.

Agenda: Work on ways to make Trump appear worse than he makes himself look.

Don't forget to bring your tin-foil hat.



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 08:33 AM
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a reply to: introvert


It is nothing more than a propaganda narrative, which was picked-up and parroted by many people on this website, in order to create doubt in those that would criticize Trump, his supporters and cast doubt on the media reporting on Trump's actions/investigation.

It's perfectly fine to criticize Trump, he's certainly far from a perfect human being. Saying there is a deep state initiative to take down Trump does not invalidate criticism against Trump as you seem to think, it's simply acknowledging the reality of the matter by observing what is happening in the world and what the MSM is reporting. You seem to ignore the point that criticism over anything and everything is not fair criticism and we even had a CNN guy admit if any other president was treated in this way by the media the public would find it extremely distasteful.


Those you have listed in the OP, such as the education system, Hollywood, the media, social media and such are simply boogeymen and convenient scapegoats for the Right Wing.

Indeed, it's just a convenient coincidence they all are pushing a common agenda... once again it's a fact all these industries are dominated by people with a certain type of ideology. If you lived in a world where all those industries were controlled by neocon republicans I'm sure you'd also be pointing out the imbalance, and if you saw it happening on a global scale in many nations around the world I'm sure you'd have some concern for the future of the planet. I know what heavy socialist and progressive policies ultimately lead to and it's just as bad as right wing fascism.
edit on 2/8/2017 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 09:07 AM
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What a coincidence... YouTube has announced yet another machine learning strategy to suppress "controversial" videos, by hiding them from the suggestions, disabling ads, disabling likes, comments, etc. They will also be implementing a system which suggests videos debunking what ever controversial topic you search for, although imo they've already been doing that for some time, now they're just admitting it. This is directly from the Google blog:


We’ve started rolling out features from Jigsaw’s Redirect Method to YouTube. When people search for sensitive keywords on YouTube, they will be redirected towards a playlist of curated YouTube videos that directly confront and debunk violent extremist messages.

An update on our commitment to fight terror content online


Of course they will portray it as some great thing designed to fight extremist terrorism but it's clear the algorithm will make sweeping generalizations because ultimately they want to suppress independent reports who are becoming even more popular than major news networks.



EDIT: Lmao, I love this comment under the video:

So every video in favour of islam should be removed, correct?


edit on 2/8/2017 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 09:13 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder



Saying there is a deep state initiative to take down Trump does not invalidate criticism against Trump as you seem to think


That is not what I think and not what I said. I said the narrative is used to cast doubt on those that would do such things. That's not to say that is the only effect the propaganda narrative has.



it's simply acknowledging the reality of the matter by observing what is happening in the world and what the MSM is reporting.


What you should say is that it is your view of reality. And for the most part, the MSM is just reporting the news. As I said, they will have their biases, but I see no evidence of the MSM outlets organizing to form any sort of "deep state" entity.



You seem to ignore the point that criticism over anything and everything is not fair criticism and we even had a CNN guy admit if any other president was treated in this way by the media the public would find it extremely distasteful and over the top.


That is not evidence of a deep state. In the case of the media, I can see why they focus on Trump. Trump made them a focus of his campaign, agenda and message to the people.

He attacks the media, they attack back. No other president before him attacked the media the way Trump has. You expect the media is just going to roll over?



Indeed, it's just a convenient coincidence they all are pushing a common agenda... once again it's a fact all these industries are dominated by people with certain type of ideology. If you lived in a world where all those industries were controlled by neocon republicans I'm sure you'd also be pointing out the imbalance, and if you saw it happening on a global scale in many nations around the world I'm sure you'd have some concern for the future of the planet.


Being biased or unbalanced is not evidence of a deep state.

Again, whether you know it or not, your OP has proven my assertion I made in the other thread. It's all propaganda.

What you have not done is provide any evidence to prove the existence of a deep state within the US.



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 09:17 AM
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a reply to: introvert


I see no evidence of the MSM outlets organizing to form any sort of "deep state" entity

Then we're just going to have to disagree, because I see it plain as day.



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: introvert


I see no evidence of the MSM outlets organizing to form any sort of "deep state" entity

Then we're just going to have to disagree, because I see it plain as day.


A deep state has a very specific definition. If it was plain as day, you could provide clear evidence. But you cannot.

Honestly, what you posted in the OP is nothing new. The Right Wing has been complaining about the media, Hollywood, social media, etc, for many, many years.

What is new is the Right Wing now calling those entities part of a "deep state" conspiracy. That is the latest propaganda tactic. And people such as yourself fell right in line with it. That is what my post was about that you quoted in the OP and you have proven my assertion to be true.

The next time you decide to create a thread like this and specifically call-out another member for a comment they made in another thread, perhaps you should have your # together and provide a better argument than "we're just going to have to disagree".



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: introvert


A deep state has a very specific definition. If it was plain as day, you could provide clear evidence. But you cannot.

Sorry let me just pull out my deep state hard evidence folder. Honestly if I really wanted to I could have gone through the lengthy and tedious process, using leaked documents from Snowden and other sources, showing how organizations such as Facebook and Google all have shady alliances with intelligence circles and how they give them backdoor access and how they use their technology to carry out social experiments, and also how those tactics extend into the mainstream media, but I'm far too lazy to write an essay for ATS.

These people aren't dumb, they know exactly what pressure points to focus on and what makes people tick, it is naive to assume they will not attempt to gain some control over social networks and news networks. I even see the same type of control occurring on what are supposed to be user controlled platforms such as Wikipedia. If I understand how important Wikipedia is as a general source of information then you can bet I'm not the only one who realizes that. They are very aware that controlling the flow of information is highly important when it comes to maintaining a narrative.


What is new is the Right Wing now calling those entities part of a "deep state" conspiracy

No it's not new at all, I've talked about the MSM being a tool for manipulating the masses for a long time. The term "deep state" is sort of new though, back in the day we always called them The Powers That Be (TPTB). Here's a quote from a thread I wrote back in 2012:

In fact most westernized nations have completely corporate controlled news, all they do is spew out carefully manufactured propaganda... it's like one huge god damn mind game. There is very little difference between the American MSM news and the Australian MSM news, except for the accents.

These days it truly feels like I get more truth and unbiased news from Russian or Asian sources. I can honestly trust those sources more than I can trust the filtered slanted western sources. And this is why the masses are so freaking oblivious to reality. They never check alternative sources.

They just eat up the mainstream garbage as if it were spoken directly from the mouth of God.

Land Of The Free No Longer

edit on 2/8/2017 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: introvert

There is plenty of clear evidence in the form of leaks from the intelligence community and other bureaucrats.

As leaks multiply, Fears of a ‘Deep State’ in America
Are deep-state leakers defending or corroding it?



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 10:08 AM
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originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: ChaoticOrder
Great post and well said.

Out of all places, I would've thought that this would be common knowledge among the ATS crowd.

There's no coincidence that those who think the deep state is some Boogeyman, also think that indoctrination and social engineering is some Boogeyman, also think occultism and satanism is some Boogeyman, also think that pedo rings among the elite are some Boogeyman, and also think that most "agendas" on society are all Boogeyman. Interesting that most of them are also anti-Trumpers, believe in the demon Trump rhetoric, believe in Russian collusion, and believe that there is absolutely no agenda against Trump.






I think you may have found some "new" disorder that needs a label toot suit


There's already a label.

"Sheep"



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 10:33 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Things puppet masters want:

1) Control by segregation

2) Isolated populations, prevented from identifying fascist elements in one anothers lives by way of their familiarity with one another way of life.

* Trump is helping make that happen, by finally getting his Muslim ban put in place, which he himself called a ban, but then said was not a ban, even though it is clearly a ban on Muslims and absolutely nothing else. He is also helping that happen, by ensuring that he divides people as much as possible, deliberately, by destroying as many of the systems that people rely on as possible, so that the differences between rich and poor stop being about comfort, and start being about whether you get to be alive by the end of the week or not*

3) Control of all financial markets to be restricted by those who benefit from them, so only those who benefit from them, and of course their heirs, ever CAN benefit from them.

*This has been the case for longer than most members here have been alive, but has only been getting worse since I was born, not better. There are rumours of a return to the worst excesses of the pre-crash financial gymnastics which landed the world in hot water when the bubble burst back in the day, because Trump wants to remove two regulations for every one implemented during his term, and there are few parts of the world economy which need as much regulation as the financial sector does. By the time he is done with it, there will likely as not, be virtually no rules whatsoever regarding what can and cannot be traded, who can and cannot trade, what practices are and are not legal when trading... hell, you will be able to trash economies from your damned Laz-E-Boy by the time he is done with it... the putz*

4) Control of public perception, by way either of total obfuscation of the truth, or by way of spinning a narrative that makes the failures of the puppets to perform as the people would like, look like someone elses fault, rather than a direct result of the instructions of their masters.

* Trump screaming of "FAKE NEWS!" or, "Its all Donnie Jnr's fault" or "Damn that Priebus/Flynn/Sessions/Scarammuci, making me look bad", or even better the assertion that he is "Draining the swamp and getting the bad, corrupt people out", even as he places industry figures and people whose conflict of interest is not only blatant, but the reason he hired them for the job in the first place, in some of the most important jobs in the United States, is a great example of the methodology involved in enacting section 4*

5) To install a fascist dictatorship of the totalitarian, authoritarian, phobic and right wing variety, across the whole earth, preferably without the people of the individual countries affected, having any idea that the same power is being inflicted on all of them.

*Which is the only possible result of allowing leaders like Trump to be elected, and to fulfill the fantasies either of the deluded halfwits who follow him religiously, or indeed the people who are in control of him. *



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 10:41 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder



Sorry let me just pull out my deep state hard evidence folder. Honestly if I really wanted to I could have gone through the lengthy and tedious process, using leaked documents from Snowden and other sources, showing how organizations such as Facebook and Google all have shady alliances with intelligence circles and how they give them backdoor access and how they use their technology to carry out social experiments, and also how those tactics extend into the mainstream media, but I'm far too lazy to write an essay for ATS.


Ok, but that's not what a deep state is.



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 10:43 AM
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originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: introvert

There is plenty of clear evidence in the form of leaks from the intelligence community and other bureaucrats.

As leaks multiply, Fears of a ‘Deep State’ in America
Are deep-state leakers defending or corroding it?


Now this is reasonable and much closer to what a deep state is.



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 02:11 PM
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Personally, I don't think Trump needs any help to bring himself down. Trump is doing well on his own, and while I find it extremely unlikely he will be impeached, it is far more conceivable his term will prove among the least effective in history. Trump has not got a clue how to conduct himself in a Presidential manner, much less business on Capital Hill. This creates constant chaos thus renders progress (if Trump would even point America in that direction) impossible.



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 06:46 PM
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originally posted by: angeldoll
If the 'deep state' is real, then how did Donald Trump, of all people, get into office to begin with? If they wanted to block Trump, they didn't do a very good job. Maybe not as "powerful" as you imagine "them" to be.


If you are the Deep State and your numbers told you had to corrupt the numbers only very slightly or maybe not even at all in places like Wisconsin, for example a county that voted democratic every single time since confederation, switching to GOP would be highly unlikely, so why worry about it or do anything about it.

Donald Trump trolled the deep state on election night, and they are fighting back now with the fake news and the Russia narrative in perpetuity. I recently read that for the first time ever, and I know in my lifetime it's like the election never ended. It's even worse than the 2000 election of Bush/Gore, at least once Bush was sworn it was over for even the MSM.
edit on 2-8-2017 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 06:48 PM
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a reply to: introvert

You didn't find it suspicious that so many in the press are married to so many in powerful positions in DC?



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