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The Deep State is Real

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posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 08:33 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
Genuine Conservatives...

There is the problem.




posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I like the angle. With a growing bureaucracy there is necessarily a "deep state" that is dependent on the bureaucracy, like parasites.

This commentary on the deep state by Mark Steyn is great..




posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 08:42 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14
a reply to: Rezlooper

You are delusional if you think that the MIC/Deep state is "liberal." Traditionally it has been very right wing, going back to all of the cold war CIA and proxy war shenanigans.


Actually it takes heavy Left Wing authoritarian policies to make the MIC/Deep state work.

Genuine Conservatives don't press the big government/banking buttons.

All ya have to do is read the Marx 10-Planks and it's right there.



That's the "no true scotsman" fallacy you are employing.

Militarism is traditionally a right wing thing, for example. So is the fascism of corporate/government merging, as Mussolini said.

You show me a time when "genuine conservative" societies were not engaging in strong government, militarism, etc?

Don't get me wrong, left wing government have done it all too.

But since the 50's and 60's, it was largely the hippy liberals or real leftists in the US who were anti-police state, anti-war, complete freedom for individuals such as everything from gay rights to chemical use. It was those "hippies' who railed against the military industrial complex while most conservatives considered it unpatriotic to question the government or war. It's only recently that libertarians came out of no where and started claiming some of the same full personal liberty ideas. In the early years the conservatives fought HARD against these cultural freedom ideas.

Granted, the Democrats have lost their minds recently, and I am parting ways with them. However, I also don't consider them to be real liberals or leftists, by any means. In fact, on their economic and foreign policies they are center right.
edit on 1-8-2017 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Yup.

All Left Wing based on Marx.




posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 09:00 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Yup.

All Left Wing based on Marx.



But those aren't traditionally "left wing." Tell me how endless wars and militarism for empire are left wing. Again, most scholars consider those right wing. Same with hyper nationalism. Same with police states. Excepting a few right wingers claiming otherwise in the states, fascism is associated with far right wing. Mussolini and Hitler both proclaimed left wing socialism or communism to be their enemy, and persecuted associated people.

You also didn't answer my points that the actual left wingers in the US were the ones against government intervention and control from the 50's onwards. It was the conservatives that were trying to have the government control sexuality, marriage, drug use, etc. What happened to those "personal freedoms" eh?

You can't apply new American re-definitions of what conservativism means (in your theory), and then try to retroactively use these new definitions for the past.
edit on 1-8-2017 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-8-2017 by Quetzalcoatl14 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 09:39 PM
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a reply to: knowledgehunter0986




There's no coincidence that those who think the deep state is some Boogeyman, also think that indoctrination and social engineering is some Boogeyman, also think occultism and satanism is some Boogeyman, also think that pedo rings among the elite are some Boogeyman, and also think that most "agendas" on society are all Boogeyman.


some excellent examples of average trump supporters, but followed by



Interesting that most of them are also anti-Trumpers, believe in the demon Trump rhetoric, believe in Russian collusion, and believe that there is absolutely no agenda against Trump.


leaves one scratching one's head.



posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 09:48 PM
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The title of this thread should be "The Deep State Is Real*"

*IMHO

Everything you presented is conjecture and opinion, and you presented no proof of all your boogymen. I hate to tell you, but most of the forces behind your left-leaning monsters are a lot more benign than you make them out to be and are more a product of rational thought than any sort of grand organized conspiracy. Just because entities behave and present themselves in ways that you don't agree with doesn't mean that there's a conspiracy against you and others like you.



posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 09:53 PM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

You summed it all up backwards.

Perfect example all the way back to GO.




posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 09:57 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

You summed it all up backwards.

Perfect example all the way back to GO.



Do you deny that until recently it was self-identifying conservatives that were trying to control a lot of these personal freedoms?



posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 10:03 PM
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originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

You summed it all up backwards.

Perfect example all the way back to GO.



Do you deny that until recently it was self-identifying conservatives that were trying to control a lot of these personal freedoms?


Which "Conservatives" and which "Freedoms" ?

You just said many "self identifiers" are phonies.

I bet you like the central banking system ?




posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 10:14 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
Which "Conservatives" and which "Freedoms"?

Real "Conservatives" don't ask which "Freedoms.

Either way you can't say they are leftists if they just aren't.



posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 10:14 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

You summed it all up backwards.

Perfect example all the way back to GO.



Do you deny that until recently it was self-identifying conservatives that were trying to control a lot of these personal freedoms?


Which "Conservatives" and which "Freedoms" ?

You just said many "self identifiers" are phonies.

I bet you like the central banking system ?





I have real questions about it the banking system, but I am no expert on financial affairs. My expertise is elsewhere.

But again, you said that all of this control is "left wing," but then you haven't answered which side was more on the side of militarism, tradition, cultural conformity, government regulation OF that conformity (again sexuality, war on drugs,etc). Until very very recently, it was the conservatives who were on that side.



posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 10:17 PM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

You already pegged it, it's the "conservative american" version of the terms.



edit on 1-8-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 10:31 PM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

All Left Wing.

It's not easy facing the facts is it.

You've been talking in circles and I know it's confusing.

Review the 10-Planks.

The answers are there.

Maybe start a thread outlining what you see as "definitions" etc.

I will debate you there.

No need to wreck this good thread.




posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 10:32 PM
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a reply to: growler


leaves one scratching one's head.

Don't let the dandruff fall into your bowl of cereal.



posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 10:33 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

All Left Wing.

It's not easy facing the facts is it.

You've been talking in circles and I know it's confusing.

Review the 10-Planks.

The answers are there.

Maybe start a thread outlining what you see as "definitions" etc.

I will debate you there.

No need to wreck this good thread.


You still haven't answered the points I made about personal freedoms and conservative attempts to control that through government. It's demonstrable historically in the US.



posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 10:44 PM
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a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I do believe his answer was that they were "fake conservatives".

Since I have never met a conservative that wasn't for some type of control, they might all be fake.



posted on Aug, 1 2017 @ 11:46 PM
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originally posted by: Willtell
The problem with your essay is all the “liberal media” stuff as if the conservative media wasn’t all for the Iraq war and many other deep states agendas


The conservative Bush regime was in on 911 and started the Iraq war


The media liberal or conservative is influenced if not controlled by the CIA.


The deep sate is not liberal or conservative it uses both


Fox, CNN, and the major networks.


And what you call liberal amounts to secular humanists that believe in abortion and have liberal social values


I believe you are correct in the sense that in the Bush years the establishment and deep state were largely 'conservative' in appearance. The msm AND the establishment dems went right along with it. Eg, the 911 official narrative and EVEN the bs wars in Iraq/Afghanistan.

Fast forward to the post Obama age (the revered God king by the media etc). There does NOT exist an even playing field no matter how many times its said. Now we have ONE 'conservative' mainstream news outlet, ONE. AND..They aren't even totally 'conservative'. (Shep Smith anyone?)

The left has ALL the rest. There is not even a competition, or even a comparison. That's not even counting Hollywood, the numerous Trump hating late night shows...Then the universities, high schools, elementary schools and lefty day care centers!

So right NOW!? The establishment and deep state are sure as # a lefty thing, and I haven't yet even touched on the identity politics disease being spread by those same #MSMHollywoodestablishment etc groups. People really need to start getting a clue.
edit on 1-8-2017 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 01:37 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Great post.

I wonder if most people and especially the left understand what the term "Deep State" refers to? Nor do they realize the Deep State in fact exposed themselves to the public on May 15, 2017 when "they" leaked highly classified (false) information to the Washington Post. How do we know this? Because the Washington Post printed it for everyone to see. There is only one place this information could have originated and it unequivocally proves the existence of a Deep State.

Attention lefties...when you have a group of people inside the government operating illegally outside of the rules of their government in an effort to undermine the authority of the POTUS this is called subversion.

The left can deny all they want the existence of the Deep State but it's just simply not true.



posted on Aug, 2 2017 @ 03:29 AM
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a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Trump understands the enemy. Even in his CIA speech he threatened the deep state.





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