If Germany had won WW1(Septemberprogramm)

A common misconception is that Germany was out to conquer the world in WW1 and that if France and Britain had lost we would be speaking German.

In fact there war goals where mild.

The Septemberprogramm was a list of goals for Germany to achieve in the war.

-France should cede some northern territory, such as the iron-ore mines at Briey and a coastal strip running from Dunkirk to Boulogne-sur-Mer, to Belgium or Germany.

-France should pay a war indemnity of 10 billion German Marks, with further payments to cover veterans' funds and to pay off all of Germany's existing national debt. This would prevent French rearmament, make the French economy dependent on Germany, and end trade between France and the British Empire.

-France will partially disarm by demolishing its northern forts.
Belgium should be annexed to Germany or, preferably, become a "vassal state", which should cede eastern parts and possibly Antwerp to Germany and give Germany military and naval bases.

-Luxembourg should become a member state of the German Empire.
Buffer states would be created in territory carved out of the western Russian Empire, such as Poland, which would remain under German sovereignty "for all time".[4]
Germany would create a Mitteleuropa economic association, ostensibly egalitarian but actually dominated by Germany. Members would include the new buffer states.

-The German colonial empire would be expanded. The German possessions in Africa would be enlarged into a contiguous German colony across central Africa (Mittelafrika) at the expense of the French and Belgian colonies. Presumably to leave open future negotiations with Britain, no British colonies were to be taken, but Britain's "intolerable hegemony" in world affairs was to end.

-The Netherlands should be brought into a closer relationship to Germany while avoiding any appearance of coercion.

France would have come off the worse. Though it would only have lost some land in france. Most its lose would have been financial and in its African colonys .

Belgium could of ended up annexed but it seems that was up for negotiation.

The British Empire would be left untouched but no longer the sole world super power.


Painful if the allies had lost but not world ending .

a reply to: InsaneIthorian

I find it odd that WW I never ended, it just went cold. Then part II took place. Is there any real reason other than the Hitler is crazy reason for WW II? I read the central banks were not happy with Germany.

If you want to know who wants to conquer the world. You can look at who wants to takeover China. China is the only civilization that doesn't follow western policy.

www.history.com...
en.wikipedia.org...

The funny thing is the alliance broke apart and went into WW1- WW2.

a reply to: seasonal

To be honest if the Allies had lost WW1 it probably would have been for the best long term as there world never have been WW2.

And Britain would of come off better losing too.
We would never have bankrupted ourselves fighting WW2 and so we would have had the money to maintain the empire.
With no WW2 and a British empire in place the USA would probably still be sound asleep in semi isolation.

Only people it would have sucked for is France, Belgium and Russia.
But lets be frank how many really care enough about France and Russia except the French and Russians? Not like france was ever grateful to the uk for saving its arse.Only Belgium i would feel sorry for.

originally posted by: makemap
If you want to know who wants to conquer the world. You can look at who wants to takeover China. China is the only civilization that doesn't follow western policy.

www.history.com...
en.wikipedia.org...

The funny thing is the alliance broke apart and went into WW1- WW2.

Britain was always very buddy buddy with Japan right up until 1930's when japan went full retard.

And yeah Britain had already started nabbing bits of china with French help. USA was involved in gunboat diplomacy.

China was probably going to be the next Africa.

a reply to: InsaneIthorian

russia got knocked out of the great war early after the germans paid lenin to go home with karl marx's book.
had germany have won world war one britain would have lost her colonies, other than the much vaunted political tinderbox europe was in it was ultimately just a land grabbing exercise.

britain would likely have lost the royal family which, for me is a good thing, cromwell had the right idea.

a reply to: seasonal

The central banks were the catalyst of both.

Explaining the second war is even easier than the first, the banks were screwing Germany. Because 'they were at fault for starting ww1'. Even though that was central banks too.

It wasn't power they were after, it was resolution. Prior to WW2, Germans were selling rolls of their money as wallpaper because it was cheaper than actual wallpaper.

rarehistoricalphotos.com...

originally posted by: InsaneIthorian
a reply to: seasonal

To be honest if the Allies had lost WW1 it probably would have been for the best long term as there world never have been WW2.

And Britain would of come off better losing too.
We would never have bankrupted ourselves fighting WW2 and so we would have had the money to maintain the empire.
With no WW2 and a British empire in place the USA would probably still be sound asleep in semi isolation.

Only people it would have sucked for is France, Belgium and Russia.
But lets be frank how many really care enough about France and Russia except the French and Russians? Not like france was ever grateful to the uk for saving its arse.Only Belgium i would feel sorry for.

The Germans and Austrians still have colonies especially in China. You don't know what they might do.
en.wikipedia.org...

It could end up being worst. But who knows, maybe the allies will demand China to help fight the Germans or Austrians in the the end. They were never neutral to Asian countries. They might have expanded further in. For once a possiblity US-Chinese alliance to destroy Central Powers. Though US being so friendly to white > other race, they might stay out or even side with the Central Powers.

originally posted by: growler
a reply to: InsaneIthorian

russia got knocked out of the great war early after the germans paid lenin to go home with karl marx's book.
had germany have won world war one britain would have lost her colonies, other than the much vaunted political tinderbox europe was in it was ultimately just a land grabbing exercise.

britain would likely have lost the royal family which, for me is a good thing, cromwell had the right idea.

Nope.

Germany did not want any land or financial concessions from Britain.

All the colony s it was going to grab where french.

All it wanted from the UK was recognition as a equal power and a bettee trade deal.

a reply to: InsaneIthorian

No where like Africa. Could end up bringing back slavery or extermination of Asian race. Asians don't act like black people you know. They have a very different culture and are a lot smarter. Have you played Bioshock Infinite? USA conquers China and the world. Chinese people were used as slaves because they can actually build stuff.

There is a new book out that I plan to pick up bout the hidden history behind WW1 and that it was actually France, Britain, Belgium that plotted and began the war and enticed Russia. Germany was actually doing its best to avoid it, bu false flag and corrupt payouts after another just kept piling on. I read a brief summary of it here.
Hidden History: The Secret Origins of the First World War Overview of Gerry Docherty & Jim Macgregor’s Book

Thus, the official, canonized history of the origins of the First World War, so they tell us, is one long, unmitigated lie from start to finish. Even more to the conspiratorial point is the authors’ thesis that – and to paraphrase a later Churchill who figures prominently in this earlier story – never were so many murdered, so needlessly, for the ambitions and profit of so few.

In demolishing the many shibboleths surrounding the origins of the ‘Great War’ (including ‘German responsibility’, ‘British peace efforts‘, ‘Belgian neutrality’ and the ‘inevitability’ of the war), Docherty and Macgregor point the finger at what they argue is the real source of the conflict: a more or less secret cabal of British imperialists whose entire political existence for a decade and a half was dedicated to the fashioning of a European war in aid of destroying the British Empire’s newly emerging commercial, industrial and military competitor, Germany.

In short, far from “sleepwalking into a global tragedy, the unsuspecting world”, Docherty and Macgregor contend, “was ambushed by a secret cabal of warmongers” originating not in Berlin, but “in London”.

I hope to learn a thing or two from this book.

a reply to: seasonal

Is there any real reason other than the Hitler is crazy reason for WW II?

WW1. Inform yourself about Hitler then you´ll see it.

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: seasonal

Is there any real reason other than the Hitler is crazy reason for WW II?

WW1. Inform yourself about Hitler then you´ll see it.

Look as a German you clearly have no idea about what is going on right now, you are not in a position to be able to see it.

You have no idea about the muslim invasion in your own country because you have your head in the sand.

Same goes for Hitler, there would be literally no education on repeating mistakes because lets face it there was none, you should really get your news from the daily mail and the likes because you know...accuracy and all that

Couple of points you are glossing over in the OP.

The German aims weren't the endgame. Given the extra reach and power of the German Reich from these gains, it would have been inevitable for them to pursue further territories which would have brought them into conflict with the British Empire and the US down the road, but at a time when the German war machine would have been in an even better position to prosecute such a war.

Second, you gloss over the annexation of Belgium as though it's some sort of benign occupation.
It wasn't. Belgians were effectively enslaved by the German army, there were forced labour camps and the people were utterly dehumanised by the occupying forces.

Belgian occupation

The allies simply couldn't just up and leave the Belgians to their fate, as much as you may wish to portray the whole German war aim as some sort of benign right of self determination, it wasn't. It was a war of aggression and an occupation of the sort that the second world war German army was also known for, but without the excuse of Nazism for the awful things they did.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
Wow, that was close. Got my pulse to 200 for a second after I read the first sentence. Then I saw you fooled me.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
Couple of points you are glossing over in the OP.

The German aims weren't the endgame. Given the extra reach and power of the German Reich from these gains, it would have been inevitable for them to pursue further territories which would have brought them into conflict with the British Empire and the US down the road, but at a time when the German war machine would have been in an even better position to prosecute such a war.

Second, you gloss over the annexation of Belgium as though it's some sort of benign occupation.
It wasn't. Belgians were effectively enslaved by the German army, there were forced labour camps and the people were utterly dehumanised by the occupying forces.

Belgian occupation

The allies simply couldn't just up and leave the Belgians to their fate, as much as you may wish to portray the whole German war aim as some sort of benign right of self determination, it wasn't. It was a war of aggression and an occupation of the sort that the second world war German army was also known for, but without the excuse of Nazism for the awful things they did.

O dont get me wrong I dont think Germany where inocent angles. Not in the slighest. But niether was France and the UK.

And yeah it sucked for Belgium. They where probably the only innocent victims in the war.

a reply to: verschickter

That German sense of humor, love you guys 😊

originally posted by: growler
a reply to: InsaneIthorian

britain would likely have lost the royal family which, for me is a good thing, cromwell had the right idea.

Ireland called they would like to have a word with you about cromwell and his genocidal agenda in the emerald isle.

On topic, there still would have been another war I do not believe for a second that nations with colonies all over the globe would just roll over and give them up without a fuss.

Either Germany would have gotten greedy, or the french and english would have tried to get some land back, either way a second war was inevitable.

Also the punishment for france looked fairly similar to the treaty of Versailles, end result would have been the same.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Yeah but you would of got French hitler instead......probably would of surrendered to poland

WW1 was orchestrated by EU royals and nobility families since the end of the 19th century with 1 and only 1 purpose, which was to provoke what was later known as october leninist revolution of October 1917. Their objective was to weaken the Russian Empire. Funny thing is they failed spectacularly and weakened Europe, in favour mostly of the US.