If the USA doesn't give 100% 'Basic' Medical Coverage to its People - It is Evil

a reply to: AlienView
Food is more important. Why not free food for everyone?

originally posted by: 00018GE
a reply to: AlienView
Food is more important. Why not free food for everyone?

I can see it now. Water and Bread insurance.

a reply to: Tranceopticalinclined

why keep population healthy when you can supplement dying workers with immigrants?

thats what someone must be thinking (and doing?)

“America's health care system is neither healthy, caring, nor a system.”
― Walter Cronkite


“Everyone should have health insurance? I say everyone should have health care. I'm not selling insurance.”
― Dennis Kucinich


“It is hard to talk about a middle ground for something that is a fundamental right.”
― Teri Reynolds, The Obama Syndrome: Surrender at Home, War Abroad


“I've been asked a lot for my view on American health care. Well, 'it would be a good idea,' to quote Gandhi.”
― Paul Farmer


“[Obamacare] was almost the perfect example of politics in the Bubble Era, where the time horizon for anyone with real power is always close to zero, long-term thinking is an alien concept, and even the most massive and ambitious undertakings are motivated entirely by short-term rewards. A radical reshaping of the entire economy, for two election cycles’ worth of campaign cash – that was what this bill meant. It sounds absurdly reductive to say so, but there’s no other explanation that makes any sense.”
― Matt Taibbi, Griftopia: Bubble Machines, Vampire Squids, and the Long Con That Is Breaking America


“In any case, seeing care for certain groups as an excessive cost reflects an arguably perverse way of thinking about health care in terms of human need. [...] In other words, care for the sick is an economic burden only in health care systems where profit is the bottom line and public services are underfunded and politically unsupported - that is, systems in which only market logic is considered legitimate.”
― Julie Guthman, Weighing In: Obesity, Food Justice, and the Limits of Capitalism


“Currently, the wealthy who have no pre-existing conditions can afford high-quality health care, while the poor and sick are relegated to hoping for and negotiating whatever health care safety net might exist in their area. This neoliberal form of capitalism structuring health care in the United States has led to those with the highest burden of sickness being simultaneously those with the least access to care.”
― Seth Holmes



""Health care must be recognized as a right, not a privilege. Every man, woman and child in our country should be able to access the health care they need regardless of their income...

We need a system that works not just for millionaires and billionaires, but for all of us. Americans should not have to fear losing their health insurance if they lose their job or change employment... We need a system that prioritizes the health of working-class families over the profits of insurance companies."

Feb. 10, 2017 - Bernie Sanders

Yet it's ok that we pay for killing other people around the world, we pay for congress to have better insurance, we pay for countless other things but if we pay to take care of each other that is evil?

Seriously I pray for that ELE asteroid because humanity is doomed with this kind of lack of empathy for our fellow man. a reply to: Metallicus

a reply to: AlienView

Agree! So like, well, we see here you pay taxes so you get it or we see here your ssn so you get it anyways?

With current health cost increases of 9 - 10% per year... healthcare is already going to break the government budget IN THE NEXT 5 YEARS... it's just math. You want to add to that?

I wish folks realized that when the government prints money to cover increasing debt... it's just a version of "I'm not broke... there's still checks in my checkbook!"

MANDATORY PRICE DISCOVERY

This is what all Americans, and illegals, had prior to Obama Care. You had the local, County and state level clinics that gave inoculations and basic care out for free. Obama Care killed that. But, where is the cry from the liberal left...none. They just want to protect the Clinton-Obama Cartel...

Hi guys,

I don't advocate for either free or non-free healthcare. But, the argument is fraught with trouble on many sides from what I've been reading as well as my own wrench to throw into the discussions.

Governments are given the rights to allow for vested interests to pollute the environment - but they are not required to protect you against such destruction of the environment - take for instance the amount of water that is destroyed by creating a silicon chip manufacturing company.

If you are affected by such activities - what is your recourse? If you are the owners of said companies - you have money. If you are not the owners of said company or don't have substantial income - what of your ability to protect yourself?

So, now because government handed out a right to the company to pollute much water - you are required to defend yourself with your own hard-earned money, when you come across the health problems that constitutes.

If a government mandates basic healthcare - what about the credit given to those who make their money by working hard - but not by unfairly earning such?

Many cities get bids for road tarring by companies. However, those same companies are not forced to use rubberized tar, because of the fact that it lasts too long. This protects their future contracts for repairing the roads. Who pays for that? And, if those companies, who work hard to get their money, offer their workers healthcare - what of those who are not given such tax payer punishing contracts?

So, the government is now allowed to do things that bear on the means you have at your disposal to earn an income - and it is justified - though in some cases, they allow for things that should be illegal. Yet, people should feel that their rights have been defended because they are at the low end of the income pool. They even hand out sweetheart deals to some banks to the tune of billions of dollars - and they are not accountable for the numerous people that are forced to pay for it.

So, one fine day you wake up, and the government will invent a health care scheme and that *may* somehow manage to get the average worker a coverage - but those who have money will be given a means to make even more - some in the healthcare schemes - what difference does it make? They are legally doing this too. Why would that be a bad thing?

If the system goes bankrupt - whose responsibility is that? If you take a look at the skew of income between the top 0.001% (or some really small number) and the rest - there is ample reason for the system to go bankrupt - and many of those who are in those top earner categories are there because of things legislated by government.

The government is a monopoly of sorts that people seem to be happy to have hovering over them. It is very difficult to say that there isn't deliberate corruptions in place that hold the wealth pattern in status quo.

Governments don't achieve anything perfectly. Neither is anyone perfect going to appear to do so - ever. But, the level of discretion in the hands of government can allow for corruptions that destroy collectively worked out compromises. The government in and of itself is in a sense a monopoly and it controls many financial outcomes - if not nearly all of them. When a single government comes to power that hands out favours, the next governments in power are not always capable of undoing such favours. Take for instance the oil companies that profited from the war in Iraq - what was the benefit to the average taxpayer?

a reply to: AlienView

The ironic thing is that all those countries which "supposedly are humanitarian" and "supposedly give basic healthcare to people" are the same countries who also claim that the unborn have no right to life... Now that is true evil.

Not to mention the fact that many of those same countries that "are giving basic healthcare" are the same countries which for a long while now have been bankrupt and have had to ask for other countries to bail them in.

Not to mention the fact that in the U.S. Republicans have been stating that Obamacare is unsustainable, and the MSM alongside the "advocates for socialized healthcare" have been dismissing this fact for a long time, and just recently some of those same "left-wing sources" are now saying that Obamacare is unsustainable.

Obamacare is unsustainable — the backbone could collapse, expert warns

Then there are the death threats that proponents of a single payer system have been sending to their Democratic legislators in places like California, because even the "socialists" amongst the Democrat legislators know that a single payer system would bankrupt California. That still hasn't stopped the "loving and compassionate" death threats from the leftwing protesters who keep demanding for a single payer system.

Tom Perez Bombs Speech, California Dem Chair Tells Protesters ‘Shut the # Up’

But you want to talk about "evil"?... lol

a reply to: AlienView

The only way to fix the medical system is to take profit out of the equation without nationalizing the cost burdens.

In other words, incentives need to exist to promote cures and good medical practices and dissuade the current big money model.

Nationalization is a bad idea however for many reasons and could make things worse than they are currently.

This problem is so intricately complex that we'd also need to solve peripheral problems and even remotely disconnected problems in one comprehensive overhaul of the very workings of our civilization's foundations.

We need a serious 50 year approach and to stick to it (things ought to be adjusted along the way of course).

But as it is now with the politics and money playing con games and milking everyone? Never gonna happen. We need a whole new novel system.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The EVIL is in the priorities of a nation's soul - IF the United States can spend many trillions of dollars, and it does, to maintain its status as top dog and world's pre-eminent policing auathority - And I'm not saying that this is necessarily a bad thing.

BUT then the United States of America can spend the extra billions of dollars necessary to guarantee at least 'basic'
universal health coverage for all its citizens.

And for those who stated it already does offer universal healthcare to all because 'emergency rooms' are open to all - Sit there one day for eight [8] hours waiting to see an intern [i have]
-- THE UNITED STATES DOES NOT HAVE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE

A friend of mine needed to see a doctor in an emergency in Europe - He tells me he was treated quite well and charged almost nothing.

a reply to: AlienView

First of all, the United States wasn't created to be a cookie cutter twin of any European nations. Second of all, those very same nations people like you idolize are having problems. In many cases they don't authorize many operations because "of how expensive they are". Many of those people who can't get treated go to the United States for treatment. Not to mention that thanks to "socialized Obamacare" premiums for healthcare have skyrocketed and are even more expensive than they have ever been.

Two days ago i had to take my mother to her doctor, while waiting I overheard a conversation in which a man is talking to a receptionist and the receptionist tells this man that she doesn't know why her mother is being charged $400 U.S.D. a month when she can't pay for that for Obamacare. Then the man states he himself has to pay $1,300 a month to pay for his own Obamacare and he isn't able to help his mother pay for hers. the receptionist couldn't understand why Obamacare was charging her so much money when she could not afford it.

Now we have got leftists in places like California sending death threats to their own Democratic Senators for not backing a "single payer system" which would cost around $400 billion a year in California alone.

California Dems decry 'bullying,' death threats from the left after shelving health bill

When your own Democrat Senators tell you it will bankrupt California, many in the left resort to sending death threats, but you want to claim that not implementing such a measure is evil?...

You, and many other people keep ignoring the fact that NHS around the world are failing, and are bankrupting nations.

Cancer patients lose out with drug price hikes of more than 1,000 %

Is the NHS going to break in 2017?

France's Health-Care System Is Going Broke

Column: Across the world, universal healthcare is in poor health

You all praised, and wanted Obamacare implemented which has shown to be a disaster, and has raised not only premiums, but prices on drugs and treatments have increased thanks to "Obamacare".

Now you have got Democrats, and RINOs trying to stop any repeal of the disaster that Obamacare is.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

No one doubts that that there are problems with 'universal healtcare for all'.

Take a quick look at this articel on the ratings of countries throughout the world - Notice France is number one,
and the USA is 37 !

World Health Organization’s Ranking of the World’s Health Systems

thepatientfactor.com...


I am not trying to back Obamacare - It was too little, too late, and it in fact didn't cover all anyway.

Remember when they were debating that bill in congress nine years ago? - Some Democratic congressmen, like the Republican holdouts to repeal it today; Insisted that there be no 'public option' for people who couldnt afford to pay for it.

And who was the real winner then? And who is the real villian now?

Thw Socialists who want universal care like Bernie Sanders?

NO - the real villians are the insurance companies that the Democrats and Obama sold out to - Whose profits are killing many people and found Obamacare wasn't profitable for their bottom line.

I won't name any names - But a couple of years ago I had a problem with what sounded like a great health insurance policy I got for a 90+ year old person and it was free - It sounded great until it came time for the company to pay a claim- -The company tried every trick and lie in the book to avoid playing a perfectly legitimate claim - So I did some reserch - This company, one of the major insurance companies that as of late has been growing bigger and bigger - was charged under RICO [Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act] - Charges having been made by several hospitals in New York.

Apparently the companies lawyers and whatever payouts in fines or whatever, were able to beat the charges
- This company is now near, if not at, the top of the ladder.

So you see its not Obamacare in itself that is failing - It's the insurance companies that are triumphing, and in the process,
destroying the American healthcare system - And Obamacare apparently made it easier - And then they force, by payoffs,
their Republican lackeys to give them back total control - Given the opportunity they crash not only Medicaid, but
Medicare, which all over 65 get today for free - And Yes when Lyndon Johnson and the Democrats controlled congress and
therefore were able to get Medicare passed - they [the insurance companies and Republicans] did all they could to stop it

Fact is, like it or not, the United States is still engaged in a civil war
- a war between Socialism and Corporate Fascism.

And the winner, answer and solution is

We need a whole new novel system.

a reply to: muzzleflash

I really think you are over complicating the whole problem, its greed the one simple solution is to remove the greed equation. If you can do that, were on our way. Why not use that big brain of yours and crunch us some numbers outa this mess please.

INSURANCE FROM ANY SOURCE IS A BUSINESS.

It cannot operate at a loss

Dont involve insurance companies or call it insurance unless you can accept that fact.

Otherwise set all medical on the medicare payment scale and force care for those prices.

And yes forcing it is equivalent to underpaying alot of doctors and facilities.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

There's no way to remove "Greed" from human beings.

To mitigate it's impact upon society via our institutions will require a complete change of everything.

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

There's no way to remove "Greed" from human beings.

To mitigate it's impact upon society via our institutions will require a complete change of everything.

Even with a change of everything will not change the reality, greedy power hungry people will gravitate to positions of power and control over others.

It's a mess.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: muzzleflash
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

There's no way to remove "Greed" from human beings.

To mitigate it's impact upon society via our institutions will require a complete change of everything.

Even with a change of everything will not change the reality, greedy power hungry people will gravitate to positions of power and control over others.

It's a mess.