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The Tesla 3 is nearly ready for delivery...

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posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:12 AM
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a reply to: luthier

I do not agree with oil co's (or any for profit orgs) getting welfare either.

I don't understand the it's OK cause everyone is doing it policy you are in support of.




posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: luthier

I'm all for electric. What is the cost of this car with out the subsidies?

Musk is a master of getting $$$ from the taxpayers to fund this, he literally gets $ 1,000,000 every business day from tax payers.


So what is your solution?

So you think ExxonMobil is all for electrics?

What is your solution to the fact musk's competitors are the most powerful lobbies in the world and have crushed competition and innovation with every trick in the book.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:15 AM
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a reply to: luthier

A non profit think tank/manufacture that doesn't make someone a Billionaire using tax dollars.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:20 AM
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a reply to: seasonal

What would this think tank do with no lobby power?

Your view is about as idealist as an sjw.

Have you ever read about the history of the electric car?

And musk is producing artifacts. His billions are from his investments.

Intel?

Boeing?

GE?

How much did he make from reinvesting PayPal money?

Your pretty much buying his competitors ghost written articles verbatim from places like seeking alpha.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:24 AM
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a reply to: luthier

Opinions vary.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:28 AM
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a reply to: seasonal

Sure but what is the reality of getting production electric vehicles and developing new tech without government subsidies?

How much does he get compared to his competitors? Including their r and d phase.

Ford raked in loans and cash himself even of it was from a foreign government at first.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:33 AM
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a reply to: luthier

I agree the system is rigged.

You are in support of tesla and like the cool looking cars-I see another depreciating asset if I buy one. And I also see that I have little choice but to pay to get it to market (tax $$) and the share holders and Musk get to live off of the taxpayer-much like social programs.

Tesla and Musk related companies have received over $ 5,000,000,000 (tax payer) to make cool stuff.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 11:35 AM
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a reply to: seasonal

Is that not normal?

You may as well list every company in those industries right?

Why are you creating a false narrative by acting like it's Elon musk.

It's not. It's every single player in those industries.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 12:02 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Look at the title of this tread, it is about Tesla-Musk.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 12:05 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

Sure but your creating a false narrative and refuse to admit your idealism doesn't reflect the current reality in the industry.

One that paid billions to already established companies who failed to prop them up.

So my comments apply plenty to tesla. Your acting like he has done something out of the norm.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 12:18 PM
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a reply to: luthier

I already said -


I agree the system is rigged.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

I don't like that I'm forced to pay for these cars, when though I'll probably never be able to afford one that can be made road legal- but I'm looking forward to buying a scrap one for the components!
Maybe I could finally retrofit the old MR2 door electric, and solve the highway engine drone and idle vibration problems in one go!

Selling them at 35k means that in ten years I'll probably be able to buy one at the scrap yard.



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 08:09 PM
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a reply to: lordcomac

Also means you arent doing life correctly i suppose. Thats not even nearly high end pricing for a vehicle.

Ill give you the depreciating asset point. Thats true. But anybody working should be able to afford a car at that price within 10 years.
edit on 29-7-2017 by lightedhype because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 29 2017 @ 08:12 PM
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a reply to: luthier

People here just love to complain at success that is not their own because they are 'taxpayers' and that is supposed to mean something?

Idk. But instead of complaining, if you buy a Tesla in a state with some forward thinking you personally will get a nice tax credit for it. Win for everybody. Except for maybe those who likes to taxpay but make no use out of benefits it can provide because of some misplaced self righteousness.



posted on Aug, 9 2017 @ 02:13 PM
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My biggest gripe with Musk is that he caters only to the wealthy. Luthier mentioned Ford a couple of times and how Henry got federal funding in a couple of different ways. But, Ford built a car for the people - the model T. It was affordable and put America into cars and got the ball rolling. It wasn't done for the privileged or for some sort of status symbol.

The model S and X are extremely expensive and you'll never see one in the driveway of the middle class. The model 3 is supposed to be around $35K. You won't hear this in the MSM but the Model 3 is a bate-and-switch. See this article on Auto Extremist

About halfway down is this:


In reality the Model 3 will cost a good $15,000 more (at least) than the originally projected $35,000 MSRP because of well, you know, the necessary add-ons (long-range battery, $9,000; nicer interior, $5,000; any color other than black, $1,000, etc.). Because it’s Elon, however, it’s not “bait and switch.” Oh no, it’s “allure and ascend.” As in, if you want to be allowed to ascend into The Enlightenment and bask in the glow, you have to fork over more cash. Capisce?

2. After the 30 Tesla insiders get the first cars, the Model 3 won’t be available in any sort of volume until sometime in 2018. But let’s be very clear about this one very significant point: Tesla has demonstrated – emphatically so, I might add – that they are serially incapable of building cars with quality at any sort of production pace that’s worth noting. And yet The Master insists that they will be punching out 500,000 Model 3s per year in no time. As if. There is no conceivable scenario extant where this will actually happen. The Muskians may not care about the projected volumes, but real people do, and the notion that this company, which can barely crank out the model lineup it has, will all of a sudden flip a switch and be cranking out a half a million cars with competitive quality levels is simply absurd and unimaginable.

3. There’s the little thing about the government tax subsidy running out before buyers can even get the Tesla 3, as in, oops.

And 4. Even if Musk could build 500,000 Model 3s a year – don’t worry, he can’t – the fundamental lack of dealers will paralyze the entire operation. So there you have it, folks. The short story of the Model 3? At least the one that was spun by The Cult of Elon? It’s transformative. It’s magic. It’s so much more than a car, and so much more than anything else that even resembles a car that it will change your life. For good.




edit on 8-9-2017 by LogicalGraphitti because: foo bar



posted on Aug, 9 2017 @ 03:40 PM
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a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

It was the only way to make a succeful auto in an industry that purposely stifles innovation. Who was ford's competition? And no the model T was not in every driveway by any means. In fact I bet if you did a side by side they wouldn't be all that different from the model 3

As a business model to succeed for the amount of r and d to push the car forward and not just be a golf cart he needed to go high end to recoup some loss. Mass production of new tech doesn't happen over night.

Your article is an opinion. Which I also point out are often ghost written by competitors.


edit on 9-8-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2017 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: lightedhype
a reply to: luthier

People here just love to complain at success that is not their own because they are 'taxpayers' and that is supposed to mean something?

Idk. But instead of complaining, if you buy a Tesla in a state with some forward thinking you personally will get a nice tax credit for it. Win for everybody. Except for maybe those who likes to taxpay but make no use out of benefits it can provide because of some misplaced self righteousness.



time.com...


edit on 9-8-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2017 @ 07:55 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

It was the only way to make a succeful auto in an industry that purposely stifles innovation. Who was ford's competition? And no the model T was not in every driveway by any means. In fact I bet if you did a side by side they wouldn't be all that different from the model 3

As a business model to succeed for the amount of r and d to push the car forward and not just be a golf cart he needed to go high end to recoup some loss. Mass production of new tech doesn't happen over night.

Your article is an opinion. Which I also point out are often ghost written by competitors.



Who's stifling innovation? The car manufacturing business is cut-throat and expensive. Tesla doesn't have a mainstream car to keep the money flowing. Every other company with R&D has cookie-cutter cars that sell in high numbers with good margins.

GM has been working on electric propulsion for 20+ years and they're just now getting to the point of an affordable car. Sure, some of that came by way of subsidies but I still come back to the point that at least GM knows the market is with the masses, not exotics. The Bolt is pretty much there.

When Tesla makes a well equipped electric at an affordable price, then I'll sing the praises of Elon along with you. But, I don't see that happening and I see Tesla fading away. It isn't sustainable as it is.



posted on Aug, 9 2017 @ 08:44 PM
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a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

If you don't know who is stifling innovation you haven't been paying attention. GM was a big part of it.

The oil industry in general and in fact even ford himself with public transit.

GM has taken so much money and failed to repay over their history it's obscene.

Tesla at lest has a cohesive plan, includes the solar power.

Your being a bit unrealistic if you think GM has a car people want. The bolt is garbage. In a year when the model 3 is the same cost it doesn't have a chance. It is being out sold by a luxury tesla as we speak.



posted on Aug, 19 2017 @ 03:25 AM
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AS far as I'm concerned Tesla is no more then a glorified Prius,and those are looked down on,seems I see more on back of a flat bed truck,then driving on the hwy




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